The joy of Calvin's succinctness.
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Clearly I did not miss it. 
The Day of the Lord
…8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet of our hope of salvation. 9For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him.…
Berean Study Bible
The Day of the Lord
…8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet of our hope of salvation. 9For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him.…
Berean Study Bible
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Or, why do you deny what it says?
If someone believes God is Sovereign they then understand the context in that regard and what it means when some were not appointed by Sovereign God unto wrath.
Appoint(ed=The Old Testament. The basic meaning of "appoint" is either "visit" or "establish or set in authority."
If someone believes God is Sovereign they then understand the context in that regard and what it means when some were not appointed by Sovereign God unto wrath.
Appoint(ed=The Old Testament. The basic meaning of "appoint" is either "visit" or "establish or set in authority."
The problem with Calvinism (as I see it) is the built-in belief that some were created for destruction and therefore salvation is not available to them, yet still they will be punished for failing to make a choice that was never offered to them in the first place.
On the other hand, Scripture says that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.
I had someone recently try to tell me that "whole world" meant or
applied to only those who will inhabit the future world to come
The amount of twisting of God's Word that has to be done to come to such conclusions is rather astounding.
On the other hand, Scripture says that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.
I had someone recently try to tell me that "whole world" meant or
applied to only those who will inhabit the future world to come
The amount of twisting of God's Word that has to be done to come to such conclusions is rather astounding.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
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Speaking of the word "REJECT" in relation to His "boule / boulen [G1012]" (used in Ephesians 1:11 [a verse commonly pointed out by those on the "Calvinist" side]... and in Luke 7:29-30), here's a post I made on that Subject, some time back... for anyone interested in reading that post :
Post #294 - https://christianchat.com/threads/calvinism-and-context.194694/post-4372704
:Post #294 - https://christianchat.com/threads/calvinism-and-context.194694/post-4372704
... which is answered to in Romans 11:32 (at the END of the "Romans 9-11" CONTEXT), where it states,
"For God hath concluded them ALL [Jew AND Gentile alike] in unbelief, THAT He might have mercy UPON ALL [Jew AND Gentile]"...
(one must grasp the underlying question being addressed in "Romans 9-11," which I find that many people miss or overlook...)
"For God hath concluded them ALL [Jew AND Gentile alike] in unbelief, THAT He might have mercy UPON ALL [Jew AND Gentile]"...
(one must grasp the underlying question being addressed in "Romans 9-11," which I find that many people miss or overlook...)
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John Calvin gets a lot of hate for encapsulating what was in the Bible centuries before he was born. And was taught by other men for about that same period of time.
It's interesting how this relates to the thread that asks why do we fight over scripture when we all believe what the Bible says.
The one main reason I think is exampled in this discussion.
We fight because while we say we believe the Bible is God's words we don't accept they mean what God said about himself. What's really strange about that is when Christians are adamant in that regard being they're suppose to be Christians because God predetermined them to heed his Gospel leading. Just as Jesus said would happen.
That's why it is really strange they'd disagree that's how they came into the faith that even Paul said was a gift from God. And not of our doing but of God's. Ephesians 2.
Yet, we read people boasting they chose. And insisting against God's word at that.
Very odd indeed.
Universalism's faithful insist the whole world was saved by Jesus. That's of course not true. Nor is it true that people choose to come to Christ, as Jesus even told his own Disciples whom he chose. That in itself was a lesson about those who would come to know his truth later. He chose us. We did not choose him. John 15.
I think some like to argue over scripture. Not actually study nor care to know what it means.
It's interesting how this relates to the thread that asks why do we fight over scripture when we all believe what the Bible says.
The one main reason I think is exampled in this discussion.
We fight because while we say we believe the Bible is God's words we don't accept they mean what God said about himself. What's really strange about that is when Christians are adamant in that regard being they're suppose to be Christians because God predetermined them to heed his Gospel leading. Just as Jesus said would happen.
That's why it is really strange they'd disagree that's how they came into the faith that even Paul said was a gift from God. And not of our doing but of God's. Ephesians 2.
Yet, we read people boasting they chose. And insisting against God's word at that.
Very odd indeed.
Universalism's faithful insist the whole world was saved by Jesus. That's of course not true. Nor is it true that people choose to come to Christ, as Jesus even told his own Disciples whom he chose. That in itself was a lesson about those who would come to know his truth later. He chose us. We did not choose him. John 15.
I think some like to argue over scripture. Not actually study nor care to know what it means.
It is that issue of the sovereignty of God that is most easy to agree with until it is expressed in terms of its outworking in salvation. The following video is in my church library and it is a recording of Duncan Campbell of the Hebridean Revival record that took place across the Hebridean Island between 1949-52. Many thousands of men, women and children were saved. Duncan bears witness that to his knowledge approximately 70% of the folks that were saved in the revival never heard the gospel being preached when they were saved. This is not to remove that in the Hebrides almost every man and woman of the near 100k peoples who lived on the Islands at that time knew of Christ because the Islands we Calvinist and the children would have received a Christian education for generations.
In this video Duncan speaks about an occasion that characterises what happened across the Hebrides - only this account is on the Isle of Berneray. The express issue is to do with God moving upon a village five miles from the church where the rest of the witness took place. It is worth a listen - if only to demonstrate how God works when his sovereignty is respected and men and woman don't chase after Him - other than in prayer. Duncan speaks about the men who were used by God to be an instrument of this revival in the Hebrides. Duncan calls them the praying men of Barvas. The boy whom Duncan speaks of is Donald MacPhail - who was sixteen at the time of this incident and who was himself saved in a village just three miles from Barvas. I knew Donald and fellowshipped with him in the early 1990's in Lewis.
But please let me also say this. Duncan Campbell speaks about Donald receiving a mighty baptism of the Holy Spirit a fortnight after he was saved. It is important to recognise this fact - because we must all know what God has done from Pentecost and still does today. If we are able to receive the sovereign hand of God in the village five miles away from the church in Berneray on that night - then we must also receive the witness of Duncan regarding Donald MacPhail - who was the instrument of God in prayer to ask God to send His power on this meeting, as the witness speaks. The video is just nine minuets long. God bless you.
In this video Duncan speaks about an occasion that characterises what happened across the Hebrides - only this account is on the Isle of Berneray. The express issue is to do with God moving upon a village five miles from the church where the rest of the witness took place. It is worth a listen - if only to demonstrate how God works when his sovereignty is respected and men and woman don't chase after Him - other than in prayer. Duncan speaks about the men who were used by God to be an instrument of this revival in the Hebrides. Duncan calls them the praying men of Barvas. The boy whom Duncan speaks of is Donald MacPhail - who was sixteen at the time of this incident and who was himself saved in a village just three miles from Barvas. I knew Donald and fellowshipped with him in the early 1990's in Lewis.
But please let me also say this. Duncan Campbell speaks about Donald receiving a mighty baptism of the Holy Spirit a fortnight after he was saved. It is important to recognise this fact - because we must all know what God has done from Pentecost and still does today. If we are able to receive the sovereign hand of God in the village five miles away from the church in Berneray on that night - then we must also receive the witness of Duncan regarding Donald MacPhail - who was the instrument of God in prayer to ask God to send His power on this meeting, as the witness speaks. The video is just nine minuets long. God bless you.
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