What did Jesus mean?

HillyBilly · Mar 7, 2022

In John 3: 5 Jesus talks about being born of water and the Spirit, what does this mean? Also, why can't one enter into the kingdom of God because of this?
John 3: 5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

JohnDB · Mar 7, 2022

This is metaphorical language...
Jesus is speaking in poetry to Nicodemus.
"Born of water" is an expression that means that the "Law" AKA God's Laws are so much a part of you that you don't ever consider breaking them.

Then there's "Born of Spirit". This one is a bit trickier. Because of the context of the Prophecy "He went unto his own but his own received him not" it's a reference that very very few Jews would ever believe in Jesus.
Meaning that God specifically raised up Nicodemus to become a believer in Jesus. (Based upon what criteria he was chosen I am completely clueless about)

But not only was Nicodemus chosen...he was chosen for a specific task. Which in truth we all have been chosen to be performers of a specific task. It's always a unique calling. It can be an object of wrath or as an object of blessings or as an object of messages or whatever. God knows and has His plans that He doesn't ask me about or desire my input on.

So...do the good you know that you should and think it through fully before you act in a novel fashion.

Aerials1978 · Mar 7, 2022

In order for an individual to be saved, they would need the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The water is symbolic of purification. It also could refer to a second natural birth of which the water is like amniotic fluid. Like the other the other poster said, it’s metaphorical language Jesus is using with Nicodemus

JohnDB · Mar 7, 2022

Aerials1978 said:

Nothing is born without amniotic fluid... unless you are a reptile.
Jesus wasn't one to discuss the obvious. And considering the time period of the writing superfluous comments (like amniotic fluid) are absolutely not written down wasting paper and ink.

Torah tohorah....of course the Law cleanses you. But it's still got very little with what Jesus is saying.

Nicodemus wasn't trying to hide his thoughts on Jesus or try to have a secret relationship with him...just after dark is social hour in Israel. More people are active then than during daylight hours. That's when friends get together and share meals and socialize.
Jesus is usually sleepy during that time because he often was praying through the night and busy during the day. This is his needed time to crash as he wasn't expecting a visitor. He wasn't very popular yet. So Nicodemus' visit is something of a surprise. Not completely unexpected but just in the timing of his three and a half year ministry tour.

Snacks · Mar 7, 2022

JohnDB said:

How do you come to this conclusion?

Rhomphaeam · Mar 7, 2022

HillyBilly said:

Salvation - The Living Meaning

Welcome to the forum.

GRACE_ambassador · Mar 7, 2022

op: What did Jesus mean about water baptism?
Precious friend(s), please Prayerfully/Carefully
Consider God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!:

Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL, under the gospel of the kingdom:

►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =

"What did Jesus mean?":
A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Especially Luke 7:29-30;
Acts_10:37; Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Law

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Mystery/GRACE! =
our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST, with
The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 ◄◄◄)
--------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion:
"What did Jesus mean?": Water baptism was for ISRAEL!

For us, The Body Of CHRIST, Today, Under Grace, There Is Only:

↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ONE Baptism! ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑

GRACE and Peace...

JohnDB · Mar 7, 2022

Snacks said:

Because it was early in his ministry. He had done a few miracles but hadn't fed the crowds yet.

Jesus was never the most popular "Messiah" during that era. There were others much much more popular. They all had tens of thousands following them ready, willing, and able to fight the Roman Army.

25,000 followers were never mentioned as to following Jesus personally. 5,000 showed up once for a free meal....
The other "messiahs" had at least that many. Of course they all died because of the Roman Army...and they had supposedly done miracles as well. But Jesus did some very PUBLICLY known people miracles.... meaning that everyone knew those that were healed.
A big difference between Jesus (unpopular) but known people who got healed. (Blind man begging every day publicly)

ResidentAlien · Mar 7, 2022

HillyBilly said:

It's clearly a reference to baptism and the subsequent receiving of the Spirit. People say it's symbolic or metaphorical but to me the meaning's as clear as the nose on your face.

ResidentAlien · Mar 7, 2022

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"—Matthew 28:19

JohnDB · Mar 7, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

Water and types referring to various kinds of water figure prominently in metaphoric language.
There is "yam" which is usually the sea. "Mayim" which is plural for seas... literally waters. Then there's "hashamayim" which is waters of waters but meaning the sky or the heaven... hashamayim hashamayim is waters of waters of waters of waters but in the metaphoric language of Hebrew means Heavens...of which there was three. The air, the sky, and then where God's home existed. Then there's stored water metaphors, and rain, and dew, and rivers, and springs...all with different meanings other than what the flat reading would suggest to us today.

Translating scriptures without an Ancient Near East anthropology understanding is a recipe for disaster. Because doing a flat reading without the "of course" knowledge from 5,000+ years ago is a great disservice to why something was said in the manner it was said. Because the natural tendency is to apply a Westernized modern understanding. Which absolutely does not apply.

ResidentAlien · Mar 7, 2022

JohnDB said:

Water and types referring to various kinds of water figure prominently in metaphoric language.
There is "yam" which is usually the sea. "Mayim" which is plural for seas... literally waters. Then there's "hashamayim" which is waters of waters but meaning the sky or the heaven... hashamayim hashamayim is waters of waters of waters of waters but in the metaphoric language of Hebrew means Heavens...of which there was three. The air, the sky, and then where God's home existed. Then there's stored water metaphors, and rain, and dew, and rivers, and springs...all with different meanings other than what the flat reading would suggest to us today.

Translating scriptures without an Ancient Near East anthropology understanding is a recipe for disaster. Because doing a flat reading without the "of course" knowledge from 5,000+ years ago is a great disservice to why something was said in the manner it was said. Because the natural tendency is to apply a Westernized modern understanding. Which absolutely does not apply.

Yeah, it doesn't mean what it clearly means, I get it. Only intellectuals and historians can understand it.

JohnDB · Mar 7, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

No...not at all.
That was not what I was inferring.
It isn't exactly difficult to understand. It just takes some practice after a little bit of study.
People in the Ancient Near East were extremely involved with the environment they lived in. Obviously as they lived or died by it.

oyster67 · Mar 7, 2022

HillyBilly said:

The context makes it very clear. Born of water = born of flesh (when your mommies water broke). The second birth is when you are born of the Holy Spirit (when you yield to Jesus at the moment of Salvation).

John
3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

oyster67 · Mar 7, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

A lot of that going around these days.

Lanolin · Mar 7, 2022

baptism in water and in spirit
Nicodemus was thinking literally being born lol

JaumeJ · Mar 7, 2022

When the centurion speared our Savior on the Cross out came water and blood. If Jesus Yeshua's agony on the cross was for our salvation it stands to reason His outpouring of water and Blood are our manner of being born again for He is thelife and the Resurrection.

Roughsoul1991 · Mar 7, 2022

HillyBilly said:

I believe Matthew explains it.

Matthew 3:11
New International Version

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Water for repentance a physical symbolic baptism.

Spirit is represented as fire at Pentecost and this is a spiritual baptism to be reborn.

JohnRH · Mar 7, 2022

HillyBilly said:

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:4-6 (KJV)

I think "born of water" means physical birth (vs 4) and
"born of the spirit" means spiritual birth (vs 6).

Magenta · Mar 7, 2022

HillyBilly said:

Being born of water and Spirit means being born again, born from above. The
natural man cannot enter the kingdom of God, but a person born of the Spirit does.

Ezekiel 36:25-26

What did Jesus mean?

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