Do we stress baptism enough?

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2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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How does understanding any of those things now prevent you from continuing a life of sin?
They don't, and I would never convey such an idea to any person.

I mean, are you sinless now?
No, I'm not perfect and never will be. Hence, I am thankful for the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effectual Power that is applied by the Laws of the Spirit of Life (the sending of the Holy Spirit). These Laws are responsible for all personal growth that I have undertaken since having my Heart Circumcised by Christ. I take no credit for anything, nor does the Lord require my assistance for anything . . . and I mean nothing.

What happened to me is exactly what the Bible states will happen to any who belong to the Family of Circumcision:

John 15:16 NKJV - "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
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Midwest
There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith,

►►► one baptism, ◄◄◄

one God and Father of all Who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:1-6)
Thanks, Magenta, the point I have been endeavouring to make all along. No one (or two?) wants "God's Math" that ONE Spiritual Baptism does NOT Equal two baptisms. Ephesians 4:5 Spiritually Agrees with Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 So, I can't figure out why - to Mix these up
with (physical) water, in order to stay in Confusion?
I agree good post to consider. I’m not sure we need to stress it so much as just share what the word says about it and not explain it away when it comes up.
So, you want us to stay with this Confusion of "sharing what the word says
about it," according to Several Different denominational traditions? ie:

1) believe AND be baptized {i.e. immersion to contact their Christ's blood}?

2) immersion with a symbolic interpretation?

3) immersion ONCE in the "name of Jesus?

4) immersion THRICE in the "name of the Triune Godhead?

5) immersion {whether once or thrice} for "membership" in their traditional assembly?

6) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into religion washing away their original sin?

7) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into some covenant?

8) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into their parent's custody that they promise to raise them right? {into Mass Confusion?}

9) sprinkling water on babies, admitting that their ritual is UNscriptural, but "we do it anyway, because it is OUR tradition!"?

10) pouring water onto babies or adults for Whatever traditional reason religion "can come up with"?

11) immersion of young and middle-aged women 'similar' to worldly/ungodly 'wet t-shirt' contests?

12) immersion Discriminates Against ALL "those who CANNOT 'obey' this ritual" ie: the hospitalized, the bedridden, the homebound, the invalids, the traumatized, etc.

God is Certainly 'NOT the author' (1 Corinthians 14:33) of all this "carnal DIVISION"
which is similar to what Paul addresses in (1 Corinthians 1:9-17), Correct?

Again, our 'choice' = participate in this Massive Confusion or,
believe God (not "calling Him a liar"), Today, Under GRACE =

There is 'ONLY' ONE Baptism, Today, Under God's PURE GRACE! Amen?
All of that being said, if someone confesses with their mouth the Lord Jesus and says they believe in their heart that God raised Him from the dead then your only course of action should be to believe them and give them a water baptism immediately.

Unless, of course, you’re saying you are bold enough to call someone a liar to their face and risk calling God a liar. It sounds like you’re willing to take that gamble.
I apologize, I thought I already said (so, at the risk of (gambling) RE-peating myself):
that "I am not The JUDGE of who is or is not saved, since that IS God's OPERATION!"

So, which of the TWELVE Confusing baptisms above is "your Only course of action,"
or is there a Risk of calling those who believe "one" of the Other eleven, a liar?

Or, worse, are the gambling odds 11 to 1, that possibly "you could be wrong"?

GRACE And Peace...
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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113
Thanks, Magenta, the point I have been endeavouring to make all along. No one (or two?) wants "God's Math" that ONE Spiritual Baptism does NOT Equal two baptisms. Ephesians 4:5 Spiritually Agrees with Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 So, I can't figure out why - to Mix these up
with (physical) water, in order to stay in Confusion?

So, you want us to stay with this Confusion of "sharing what the word says
about it," according to Several Different denominational traditions? ie:

1) believe AND be baptized {i.e. immersion to contact their Christ's blood}?

2) immersion with a symbolic interpretation?

3) immersion ONCE in the "name of Jesus?

4) immersion THRICE in the "name of the Triune Godhead?

5) immersion {whether once or thrice} for "membership" in their traditional assembly?

6) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into religion washing away their original sin?

7) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into some covenant?

8) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into their parent's custody that they promise to raise them right? {into Mass Confusion?}

9) sprinkling water on babies, admitting that their ritual is UNscriptural, but "we do it anyway, because it is OUR tradition!"?

10) pouring water onto babies or adults for Whatever traditional reason religion "can come up with"?

11) immersion of young and middle-aged women 'similar' to worldly/ungodly 'wet t-shirt' contests?

12) immersion Discriminates Against ALL "those who CANNOT 'obey' this ritual" ie: the hospitalized, the bedridden, the homebound, the invalids, the traumatized, etc.

God is Certainly 'NOT the author' (1 Corinthians 14:33) of all this "carnal DIVISION"
which is similar to what Paul addresses in (1 Corinthians 1:9-17), Correct?

Again, our 'choice' = participate in this Massive Confusion or,
believe God (not "calling Him a liar"), Today, Under GRACE =

There is 'ONLY' ONE Baptism, Today, Under God's PURE GRACE! Amen?

I apologize, I thought I already said (so, at the risk of (gambling) RE-peating myself):
that "I am not The JUDGE of who is or is not saved, since that IS God's OPERATION!"

So, which of the TWELVE Confusing baptisms above is "your Only course of action,"
or is there a Risk of calling those who believe "one" of the Other eleven, a liar?

Or, worse, are the gambling odds 11 to 1, that possibly "you could be wrong"?

GRACE And Peace...
Read John 3:13-17. This is important as Jesus gives direct commentary on water baptism, the Holy Spirit gets involved, and God the Father spoke from heaven, so they those standing around could audibly hear His voice.

Matthew 3:13-17
13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

1. Jesus made it clear to John that He needs to get water baptized.
2. Jesus said they getting water baptized was part of fulfilling all righteousness.
3. Jesus received the baptism of the Holy Spirit during His water baptism.
4. God the Father spoke form heaven during His water baptism.
5. Jesus began His ministry after His water baptism.

Don’t you think that if Jesus said it’s part of fulfilling all righteousness that maybe you should just take that in faith and get water baptized? This isn’t a trick question: do you reject water baptism yes or no?

Sadly we do have to actually ask people if they reject water baptism nowadays, but in the ministry of Jesus and the early church it was a common practice.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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They don't, and I would never convey such an idea to any person.



No, I'm not perfect and never will be. Hence, I am thankful for the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effectual Power that is applied by the Laws of the Spirit of Life (the sending of the Holy Spirit). These Laws are responsible for all personal growth that I have undertaken since having my Heart Circumcised by Christ. I take no credit for anything, nor does the Lord require my assistance for anything . . . and I mean nothing.

What happened to me is exactly what the Bible states will happen to any who belong to the Family of Circumcision:

John 15:16 NKJV - "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."
Okay that’s what I thought. So why do you regret getting baptized and why were you not saved then as opposed to now? It seems like before you just had pure faith in Christ despite your flaws that you carry with you until this very day. Big difference is that now you have a lot of head knowledge and theology, but you still have faith. All you need is to have faith in God’s operation. You were saved a long time ago as far as I can see.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,137
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Thanks, Magenta, the point I have been endeavouring to make all along. No one (or two?) wants "God's Math" that ONE Spiritual Baptism does NOT Equal two baptisms. Ephesians 4:5 Spiritually Agrees with Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 So, I can't figure out why - to Mix these up
with (physical) water, in order to stay in Confusion?

So, you want us to stay with this Confusion of "sharing what the word says
about it," according to Several Different denominational traditions? ie:

1) believe AND be baptized {i.e. immersion to contact their Christ's blood}?

2) immersion with a symbolic interpretation?

3) immersion ONCE in the "name of Jesus?

4) immersion THRICE in the "name of the Triune Godhead?

5) immersion {whether once or thrice} for "membership" in their traditional assembly?

6) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into religion washing away their original sin?

7) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into some covenant?

8) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into their parent's custody that they promise to raise them right? {into Mass Confusion?}

9) sprinkling water on babies, admitting that their ritual is UNscriptural, but "we do it anyway, because it is OUR tradition!"?

10) pouring water onto babies or adults for Whatever traditional reason religion "can come up with"?

11) immersion of young and middle-aged women 'similar' to worldly/ungodly 'wet t-shirt' contests?

12) immersion Discriminates Against ALL "those who CANNOT 'obey' this ritual" ie: the hospitalized, the bedridden, the homebound, the invalids, the traumatized, etc.

God is Certainly 'NOT the author' (1 Corinthians 14:33) of all this "carnal DIVISION"
which is similar to what Paul addresses in (1 Corinthians 1:9-17), Correct?

Again, our 'choice' = participate in this Massive Confusion or,
believe God (not "calling Him a liar"), Today, Under GRACE =

There is 'ONLY' ONE Baptism, Today, Under God's PURE GRACE! Amen?

I apologize, I thought I already said (so, at the risk of (gambling) RE-peating myself):
that "I am not The JUDGE of who is or is not saved, since that IS God's OPERATION!"

So, which of the TWELVE Confusing baptisms above is "your Only course of action,"
or is there a Risk of calling those who believe "one" of the Other eleven, a liar?

Or, worse, are the gambling odds 11 to 1, that possibly "you could be wrong"?

GRACE And Peace...
🤪….and you call the what the Bible says confusing ?
 

blueluna5

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2018
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Throughout the book of Acts there are accounts of people being baptized as soon as possible upon believing the good news. This indicates that baptism was an integral and important part of the message. Nowhere is this more clear than Acts 8:34-36:

"So the eunuch answered Philip and said, 'I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?' Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, 'See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?' "

After Philip "preached Jesus to him" the eunuch wanted to be baptized at the first opportunity, indicating that part—an important part—of the message Philip preached to him was baptism.

So often all you hear preached is only part of the good news—believing and receiving. Whether or not you believe baptism is critical for the forgiveness of sins or rebirth, it can't be denied that it should be preached and practiced. Organizations like the Salvation Army don't even teach or practice baptism at all.
I believe baptism should be a very personal choice. I wouldn't say pushing it is good bc it loses its value. I loved my baptism. It was definitely spiritual and I waited a long time even after being saved for it. I was in my early 30s. I'm glad I wasn't a teenager or too young to fully understand.

In addition I had a crazy dream that night in which a man spoke to me in Greek. At the time I was really into dreams so I looked it up as soon as I woke up. I don't speak Greek. He said "a new life." I had assumed he meant because I was baptized. But 1 year later on the SAME DAY I seen my baby's first heartbeat. I was 6 weeks pregnant after going through 5 years of infertility. "A new life"
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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So why do you regret getting baptized
I'm beginning to think that you're toying with me, as I'll now copy and paste the clear answer, to you, for the second time.

"My "church" didn't teach me the True Gospel, nor did they tell me about True commitment, thus, immediately after I was water baptized, with still wet hair, I walked one block down the street and stole a bag of rubber bands for my paper route business. I was 12 years old. I wish that my "church" hadn't ever allowed me to be baptized, as I then spent the next four-plus decades believing that I was Truly saved. Unfortunately, I was not. I then learned about all kinds of sin and simply became worse . . . and worse . . . and worse . . . and worse . . . and worse."

I know that I wasn't saved because with hair still wet from baptism, I stole from a 7-11 convenience store. But five+ years ago, I had the most remarkable experience with God. It was at this moment that my heart received the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ. Instantly, I had an entirely new life that I could not ignore. When a person experiences the Raw, Almighty Presence of God to the degree that His Power nearly took my life, no one can ever remain the same. I learned, that day, that I am alive because He allows it. That day, I developed genuine, True Fear of the Lord. That day, I began to change to reflect the Glory of the Lord more and more. And, the more that I tried to control my life, the less I was able to be in control. There is no possible way that I am in control over my life, considering all that has taken place since that incredible day.

But as for the Transformation, it is best expressed by looking at the life of king Saul. What happened to Saul's thinking process when the Spirit of the Lord was taken from him and he was then given an evil Spirit? His thinking changed; his behavior changed. He went from a kind king whom many loved to a king who sought to murder David. His thinking changed. He felt different. His life became different. In reverse, this happened to me, much like it happened to Saul, later to be renamed Paul. When we both met the Lord in the most Powerful of ways, our Transformation began and there was no turning back. Just as Saul knew to call our "Lord" before he knew that this Power that blinded him was the Christ, he knew that it was the Lord.

When the Sinful Nature is lifted, a person knows it. There is no mistaking the change of thinking, of which behavior is sure to follow. Think of the difference in the way Adam and Eve felt after having only known perfect thinking, to later received the Curse of the Lord, thus thinking in alignment with the Devil. Drastic! Horrible! Awful! When a person is lifted of the Mind of the Devil, they know it . . . it is clear and conclusive. There is no mistaking the difference in how a person feels, thinks, and begins to act once alleviated of this Adamic Curse as described in Romans 5. Furthermore, when a person receives this Circumcision of the Heart, and they read Colossians 2:9-15, it all makes sense, for they, just in that moment, Truly understand what has happened to them.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

Any True Christian, or True Jew, will read these Seven perfect verses and understand, clearly, what has happened to them. These verses will slowly begin to make more and more sense as time goes on. But when they read of the Circumcision of the Sinful Nature, this act by Christ explains why they have Transformed, just as Paul explains in Romans 12:2.

Circumcision of Heart is the Purpose of Christ, and it is much of the Work of Christ, and it results in the Holy Effect of Christ. And as said, those who have received this Spiritual Circumcision, all things begin to change. ALL things in their life, hence, Romans 12:2. Colossians 2:9-15 is the single most context-filled set of Scripture that explains the entire Bible.

I'll stop, as I could literally write a book on this topic. And considering that I have written these things probably 100 times now over the course of being here nearly one year . . . it's tiring writing the same old thing . . . over, and over, and over, and over, and over. I don't need to write these things over and over, for all that a person needs to do is read the Bible for themselves and judge themselves and their lives based upon all of Scripture; not just little bits and pieces that seem to explain their sinful, wretched, pathetic lives . . . all the while calling themselves "Christian." It's time for people to stop determining the meaning of Scripture-based upon their lives, but to begin determining who THEY are based upon Scripture.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
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OK ----ask yourselves was the thief on the cross with Jesus who was saved by Jesus Baptised by water ----I don't think so --------

Water Baptism today is just an outward expression of our Faith in Jesus Christ ---if Water baptism is necessary for salvation then that is by works not faith -------and that goes against what the Bible says -----if water Baptism is needed to be saved then that is an attack on the Sufficiency of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ -----

Only the Blood of Jesus washes away sins ---no water baptism can do that --

The Holy Spirit is likened unto water ------so we are now Baptised in the Holy Spirit and we choose to be dunked in Water as an outward expression of our faith in Jesus Christ --



1647910466066.jpeg
1647910504034.jpeg --------
Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/The-Holy-Spirit-Described-As-Water

4 Bible Verses about The Holy Spirit Described As Water
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,137
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OK ----ask yourselves was the thief on the cross with Jesus who was saved by Jesus Baptised by water ----I don't think so --------

Water Baptism today is just an outward expression of our Faith in Jesus Christ ---if Water baptism is necessary for salvation then that is by works not faith -------and that goes against what the Bible says -----if water Baptism is needed to be saved then that is an attack on the Sufficiency of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ -----

Only the Blood of Jesus washes away sins ---no water baptism can do that --

The Holy Spirit is likened unto water ------so we are now Baptised in the Holy Spirit and we choose to be dunked in Water as an outward expression of our faith in Jesus Christ --



View attachment 238080
View attachment 238081 --------
Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/The-Holy-Spirit-Described-As-Water

4 Bible Verses about The Holy Spirit Described As Water
“OK ----ask yourselves was the thief on the cross with Jesus who was saved by Jesus Baptised by water ----I don't think so --------“

why don’t you ?

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judæa, and all the region round about Jordan, and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s nothing to say he wasn’t baptized the evidence we have suggests he was probably in the region . and also nothing to say he received the spirit because it wasn’t yet given to anyone.

“Water Baptism today is just an outward expression of our Faith in Jesus Christ ---if Water baptism is necessary for salvation then that is by works not faith

“Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:22-23, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems like your saying “ if I believe then I don’t need to do anything he said to do , because that’s not faith “

paul Never taught that though it’s a misunderstanding of what he taught. Of we hear Gods word we can believe and have faith at that point we don’t say “ I believe now and so I don’t need to do what he’s saying will save me “

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s about hearing , believing and walking in faith

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭

there’s no reason for us to reason away what he said that’s not faith. Neither is saying I believe and so now I nEver need to do anything it’s the opposite hearing and believing and so like you originally said it’s an expression of that faith or a work of faith

Paul’s point aboit works eas pertaining to the works of the book of Moses law,

everything paul taught was about obeying the gospel and word of Christ that’s where faith is found actually

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism is of faith we should believe and act in faith
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
I'm beginning to think that you're toying with me, as I'll now copy and paste the clear answer, to you, for the second time.

"My "church" didn't teach me the True Gospel, nor did they tell me about True commitment, thus, immediately after I was water baptized, with still wet hair, I walked one block down the street and stole a bag of rubber bands for my paper route business. I was 12 years old. I wish that my "church" hadn't ever allowed me to be baptized, as I then spent the next four-plus decades believing that I was Truly saved. Unfortunately, I was not. I then learned about all kinds of sin and simply became worse . . . and worse . . . and worse . . . and worse . . . and worse."

I know that I wasn't saved because with hair still wet from baptism, I stole from a 7-11 convenience store. But five+ years ago, I had the most remarkable experience with God. It was at this moment that my heart received the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ. Instantly, I had an entirely new life that I could not ignore. When a person experiences the Raw, Almighty Presence of God to the degree that His Power nearly took my life, no one can ever remain the same. I learned, that day, that I am alive because He allows it. That day, I developed genuine, True Fear of the Lord. That day, I began to change to reflect the Glory of the Lord more and more. And, the more that I tried to control my life, the less I was able to be in control. There is no possible way that I am in control over my life, considering all that has taken place since that incredible day.

But as for the Transformation, it is best expressed by looking at the life of king Saul. What happened to Saul's thinking process when the Spirit of the Lord was taken from him and he was then given an evil Spirit? His thinking changed; his behavior changed. He went from a kind king whom many loved to a king who sought to murder David. His thinking changed. He felt different. His life became different. In reverse, this happened to me, much like it happened to Saul, later to be renamed Paul. When we both met the Lord in the most Powerful of ways, our Transformation began and there was no turning back. Just as Saul knew to call our "Lord" before he knew that this Power that blinded him was the Christ, he knew that it was the Lord.

When the Sinful Nature is lifted, a person knows it. There is no mistaking the change of thinking, of which behavior is sure to follow. Think of the difference in the way Adam and Eve felt after having only known perfect thinking, to later received the Curse of the Lord, thus thinking in alignment with the Devil. Drastic! Horrible! Awful! When a person is lifted of the Mind of the Devil, they know it . . . it is clear and conclusive. There is no mistaking the difference in how a person feels, thinks, and begins to act once alleviated of this Adamic Curse as described in Romans 5. Furthermore, when a person receives this Circumcision of the Heart, and they read Colossians 2:9-15, it all makes sense, for they, just in that moment, Truly understand what has happened to them.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

Any True Christian, or True Jew, will read these Seven perfect verses and understand, clearly, what has happened to them. These verses will slowly begin to make more and more sense as time goes on. But when they read of the Circumcision of the Sinful Nature, this act by Christ explains why they have Transformed, just as Paul explains in Romans 12:2.

Circumcision of Heart is the Purpose of Christ, and it is much of the Work of Christ, and it results in the Holy Effect of Christ. And as said, those who have received this Spiritual Circumcision, all things begin to change. ALL things in their life, hence, Romans 12:2. Colossians 2:9-15 is the single most context-filled set of Scripture that explains the entire Bible.

I'll stop, as I could literally write a book on this topic. And considering that I have written these things probably 100 times now over the course of being here nearly one year . . . it's tiring writing the same old thing . . . over, and over, and over, and over, and over. I don't need to write these things over and over, for all that a person needs to do is read the Bible for themselves and judge themselves and their lives based upon all of Scripture; not just little bits and pieces that seem to explain their sinful, wretched, pathetic lives . . . all the while calling themselves "Christian." It's time for people to stop determining the meaning of Scripture-based upon their lives, but to begin determining who THEY are based upon Scripture.
I'm just cross referencing your answers for consistency. I just don't understand what you seem to think is spiritually different between you without a bunch of head knowledge and you with a bunch of head knowledge. I still don't really agree with most of what you said about water baptism, but more power to you. Glory to God.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,137
5,720
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I believe baptism should be a very personal choice. I wouldn't say pushing it is good bc it loses its value. I loved my baptism. It was definitely spiritual and I waited a long time even after being saved for it. I was in my early 30s. I'm glad I wasn't a teenager or too young to fully understand.

In addition I had a crazy dream that night in which a man spoke to me in Greek. At the time I was really into dreams so I looked it up as soon as I woke up. I don't speak Greek. He said "a new life." I had assumed he meant because I was baptized. But 1 year later on the SAME DAY I seen my baby's first heartbeat. I was 6 weeks pregnant after going through 5 years of infertility. "A new life"
“I believe baptism should be a very personal choice. I wouldn't say pushing it is good bc it loses its value. “

yes it needs to be the persons choice but it also needs to be preached what it is for them people who hear and believe will of course get baptized and love it knowing thier sins have been remitted according to what God said to do and have thier sins remitted

it’s always good to accept his promises and act upon them it never fails agree though each person should make the choice but if we don’t share what the Bible says about it why would anyone get baptized ?
 

Aaron56

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Read John 3:13-17. This is important as Jesus gives direct commentary on water baptism, the Holy Spirit gets involved, and God the Father spoke from heaven, so they those standing around could audibly hear His voice.

Matthew 3:13-17
13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

1. Jesus made it clear to John that He needs to get water baptized.
2. Jesus said they getting water baptized was part of fulfilling all righteousness.
3. Jesus received the baptism of the Holy Spirit during His water baptism.
4. God the Father spoke form heaven during His water baptism.
5. Jesus began His ministry after His water baptism.

Don’t you think that if Jesus said it’s part of fulfilling all righteousness that maybe you should just take that in faith and get water baptized? This isn’t a trick question: do you reject water baptism yes or no?

Sadly we do have to actually ask people if they reject water baptism nowadays, but in the ministry of Jesus and the early church it was a common practice.
I’ll show you a mystery:

Jesus and John were still under the law at the time.
John was of the priestly lineage and he also toke a vow of a Nazarite. If you will, he was a priest of priests.
Under the law it was appropriate to wash the sacrifice before offering it.
So Jesus goes to the priest and says “wash me”. We know the exchange.
The righteousness that was fulfilled is that which is under the law: the sacrifice was washed. It certainly wasn’t so that Jesus had a clean conscience before God, right?
God’s proclamation from heaven certified the event, and Jesus was called the rightful heir of the throne of God.
It was at that time He became a “living sacrifice”, which is our standard as well. Here, He gave up His own life so that the Father could live through Him. This is the actual point where He gave His life for us, which, we know, culminated with the death of His body on the cross.

As one who has been baptized in water, I say this account is not about that.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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I'm just cross referencing your answers for consistency. I just don't understand what you seem to think is spiritually different between you without a bunch of head knowledge and you with a bunch of head knowledge. I still don't really agree with most of what you said about water baptism, but more power to you. Glory to God.
Oh. Ok. Thanks.
 

Pilgrimshope

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I’ll show you a mystery:

Jesus and John were still under the law at the time.
John was of the priestly lineage and he also toke a vow of a Nazarite. If you will, he was a priest of priests.
Under the law it was appropriate to wash the sacrifice before offering it.
So Jesus goes to the priest and says “wash me”. We know the exchange.
The righteousness that was fulfilled is that which is under the law: the sacrifice was washed. It certainly wasn’t so that Jesus had a clean conscience before God, right?
God’s proclamation from heaven certified the event, and Jesus was called the rightful heir of the throne of God.
It was at that time He became a “living sacrifice”, which is our standard as well. Here, He gave up His own life so that the Father could live through Him. This is the actual point where He gave His life for us, which, we know, culminated with the death of His body on the cross.

As one who has been baptized in water, I say this account is not about that.
nothing changed though and Jesus was under the law until he was baptized received the Holy Ghost and began to preach the everlasting gospel of which baptism is an entrance

The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the prophets lead here to this promise of John ( Elijah ) and Jesus the lord and messenger of the eternal covenant

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: ( John)

and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: ( Jesus ) behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel begins here fulfilling that promise

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. ….John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2, 4-5‬ ‭

the people were yet under the law but Jesus had already kept it and now was announcing the gospel the long promised new covenant. It’s why he began to teach contrary to the law he wasn’t under it after his baptism. And why his disciples kept baptizing even after johns imprisonment

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( the law of Moses exodus 21:24-25)

but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”( the contrary point of the gospel )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it wasn’t complete until he died and rose then all his words became the covenant

“And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

for a short time the people were yet under the law , so he told them to keep it until all was fulfilled. They were also hearing the gospel of the kingdom when he died the law was fulfilled and gospel became the covenant and was sent to all the world with this command

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

it’s why they kept baptizing people for remission of sins after he died and rose it’s actually part of the gospel not the law it remits the sins under the law and then allows one to receive the spirit having thier sins remitted

either believing first and receiving the spirit and then getting baptized for remission or getting baptized and then receiving the spirit
 

studentoftheword

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Nov 12, 2021
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“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

John did water Baptism for Repentance only -------Repentance will not save you -------Repentance is a mind change only ---Repentance is you saying I am a sinner and I need a Saviour -----it has nothing to do with the heart change ---or a sin nature change ------only the Blood of Jesus can take away your sins --and water Baptism cannot do that -----if you believe that all the people John Baptised were deemed sinless when they came up from the water ---your being deceived and if your telling people that water Baptism will take away your sins ---you are spreading false doctrine -----and sending people to their doom --

Hebrews 9:22

Context
Redemption through His Blood
…21In the same way, he sprinkled with blood the tabernacle and all the vessels used in worship.

22 According to the law, in fact, nearly everything must be purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23So it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.…
Berean Study Bible

I say
Water Baptism is fine to do -----if your doing it after receiving by faith Jesus as your Lord and Saviour in your heart -----being dunked in water and raising up from the water is an outward expression of your Faith in Jesus who has already saved you ------
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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John did water Baptism for Repentance only
His Baptism did more than that. John's baptism resulted in the opening of eyes and ears so that people would receive the Good News of Christ. Those who did not receive John's baptism did not believe. It is my belief that Jesus was Circumcising hearts through John's Baptism (where he, John, "prepared the Way").

John 9:39 NKJV - "And Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind."
 

Aaron56

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Jul 12, 2021
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nothing changed though and Jesus was under the law until he was baptized received the Holy Ghost and began to preach the everlasting gospel of which baptism is an entrance

The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the prophets lead here to this promise of John ( Elijah ) and Jesus the lord and messenger of the eternal covenant

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: ( John)

and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: ( Jesus ) behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel begins here fulfilling that promise

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. ….John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2, 4-5‬ ‭

the people were yet under the law but Jesus had already kept it and now was announcing the gospel the long promised new covenant. It’s why he began to teach contrary to the law he wasn’t under it after his baptism. And why his disciples kept baptizing even after johns imprisonment

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( the law of Moses exodus 21:24-25)

but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”( the contrary point of the gospel )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it wasn’t complete until he died and rose then all his words became the covenant

“And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

for a short time the people were yet under the law , so he told them to keep it until all was fulfilled. They were also hearing the gospel of the kingdom when he died the law was fulfilled and gospel became the covenant and was sent to all the world with this command

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

it’s why they kept baptizing people for remission of sins after he died and rose it’s actually part of the gospel not the law it remits the sins under the law and then allows one to receive the spirit having thier sins remitted

either believing first and receiving the spirit and then getting baptized for remission or getting baptized and then receiving the spirit
Jesus never baptized anyone in water. And after He ascended His baptismal medium was the Spirit and fire. His baptism ratified the new testament because it required a sacrifice. He was the willing, living sacrifice who would wholly represent the Father to the people.

When He arose from the dead He became a life-giving Spirit. Now, His person is able to accommodate all who wish to be a living sacrifice. And, all those in Christ, have fulfilled all righteousness. We go under the water as a testimony to His burial, but the reckoning of being dead to sin is a changed mind. Water baptism is a witness to the enemy who pursues us and to our souls. It saves us, not so we go to heaven when we die, but it saves us from the pursuit of our enemy and from a conscience defiled by the world. When the enemy comes to accuse us of past transgressions we may point him to our baptism and say, “That guilty man died and you witnessed his burial.” As we live this truth the enemy may come around but he will find nothing in us for which to accuse us.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Yes, I have observed that error of emphasizing word formulas.

I agree that baptizing in the Name of Jesus was not emphasizing a phrase or magic words either way. Whether they said in the name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit or the name of Jesus if they were doing it in the name of Jesus, which means in the authority of.

For example they healed people in the name of Jesus not necessarily by saying "in the name of Jesus" every time. They might say "Be Healed" and because they were doing it by the authority of Jesus they were doing it in the name of Jesus even though they did not specifically say those words.

If I baptize someone in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I did it in the name of Jesus even if I did not say "in the name of Jesus". If I baptize someone "In the name of Jesus" I baptized them in the name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit even if I did not say In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

One cannot baptize in the name of Jesus unless they have been given the authority to do so. We are given this authority by the command of Jesus to do so and are baptizing in the authority of Jesus and when we start arguing over what specific words are spoken when we are doing it then we have gone backwards in our understanding, deemphasizing the spirit and truth of the act of faith, and focusing on the legalistic ritualism and clutic practice of spell casting and pagan incantations all over again which unregenerate men are prone to do.
There is always significance in God's commands. Modification and/or non-compliance of those commands frustrate the purposes of God. And result in dire consequences as seen from scripture; ie, Moses was barred from entering the earthy promised land because he neglected to obey God's direct command. (Num. 20:8-11) And, Uzzah's error in touching the Ark of the Covenant, though not intentional and done for a "good" reason, resulted in his death. (2 Sam. 6) These examples provide clear evidence that the need to follow God's instructions precisely should not be taken lightly. Why? Because obedience to God's commands serve a specific purpose. And many times this fact is not fully realized until after a person actually believes and obeys the command.

Since God's commands are far from mere suggestions it is important to search out and act in obedience to what is actually stated in the bible. A search of the word baptize, baptism, baptized, etc. reveals that all water baptisms were administered in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why? Because it was Jesus who was crucified for all of mankind. Paul makes this point in 1 Cor. 1:13-15. Another thing many fail to realize is that how the apostles performed baptisms shines light on the command given by Jesus in Matthew 28:19. Jesus' stated they were to use a name. And the apostles understood that name was Jesus as evidenced from scripture. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

Also, it was Paul who explained that baptism brings about the reality of being buried with, none other than Jesus into His death. Every believer must be planted together with Jesus for their sins to be destroyed in order to be in the likeness of Jesus' resurrection. Romans 6:3-6

Consider that Jesus addressed the need to use His literal name: If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. John 14:14 Elsewhere scripture confirms that using the literal name of Jesus in faith is what releases God's power for specific purposes such as healing, casting out demons, etc. For it is at the name of Jesus that every knee shall bow of things in heaven, in EARTH, and under the earth. (Phil 2:10) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12

The enemy unfortunately has had much success throughout history in promoting beliefs that do not line up with God's Word. And the result is many are deceived into traveling the broad way leading to destruction. (Matt. 7:13) Therefore it is necessary for each of us to search out and obey the Word of God and in doing so will find the straight gate and narrow way that leads to life. (Matt. 7:14)
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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You are correct it isn't a set of hocus pocus, presto change-o, magic words. It's possible to be anything "in name only" and that's a clue as to who should and should not be baptizing people. Those who water baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of God in heart, word, and deed; everyone else isn't since there are only two kinds of people in the world: those in Christ and those not in Christ.

This means two things: one, those who are water baptized should ensure that the one who water baptized them is a real Christian; two, those who are not real Christians have no authority to perform valid water baptisms.
Interesting that you see stressing required obedience to God's command as "hocus pocus, presto change-o, magic words." Sounds a lot like disrespect.

Also Colossians 3:17 accurately expresses a truth about using the name of Jesus, "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Jesus never baptized anyone in water. And after He ascended His baptismal medium was the Spirit and fire. His baptism ratified the new testament because it required a sacrifice. He was the willing, living sacrifice who would wholly represent the Father to the people.

When He arose from the dead He became a life-giving Spirit. Now, His person is able to accommodate all who wish to be a living sacrifice. And, all those in Christ, have fulfilled all righteousness. We go under the water as a testimony to His burial, but the reckoning of being dead to sin is a changed mind. Water baptism is a witness to the enemy who pursues us and to our souls. It saves us, not so we go to heaven when we die, but it saves us from the pursuit of our enemy and from a conscience defiled by the world. When the enemy comes to accuse us of past transgressions we may point him to our baptism and say, “That guilty man died and you witnessed his burial.” As we live this truth the enemy may come around but he will find nothing in us for which to accuse us.
Brilliantly explained!