false gospel

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 16:25
For whoever is bent on saving his [temporal] life [his comfort and security here] shall lose it [eternal life]; and whoever loses his life [his comfort and security here] for My sake shall find it [life everlasting].

Those who are bent on saving their temporal life will never come to Christ. Because they will never repent. There minds are on the world. Not on God. (If if they say the come to Christ. They come looking for personal gain, Not spiritual gain. These are the people who walk away and no longer believe. They are what scripture calls impostors. who come in and after they realise it is not what they thought it was, depart from the church. and no longer believe.

Yes they will lose it. They had a chance to get it. it was offered to them, It was in their grasp. But they never received it.

 

[loveschild]

Those who are bent on saving their temporal life will never come to Christ. Because they will never repent. There minds are on the world. Not on God. (If if they say the come to Christ. They come looking for personal gain, Not spiritual gain. These are the people who walk away and no longer believe. They are what scripture calls impostors. who come in and after they realise it is not what they thought it was, depart from the church. and no longer believe.

Yes they will lose it. They had a chance to get it. it was offered to them, It was in their grasp. But they never received it.

Yha like I think the first poster was trying to say God never promised us a rose garden. That all was going to be fine and dandy once we ask God to live in us. In fact the word says we will go through hard times being Christians.

 

[schoolofyoungprophet]

a peracher once said"If Christians no longer need to repent then Jesus missed it when He told 5 of the 7 churches to repent in Revelations!"
pretty intresting thought and a good one

 

[4runner]

ah you misundertand. you see EG has already said he believes those people never had salvation to begin with or they would never have "walked away"

And he is wrong The bible make is clear that you can walk away after receiving salvation

 

[4runner]

a peracher once said"If Christians no longer need to repent then Jesus missed it when He told 5 of the 7 churches to repent in Revelations!"
pretty intresting thought and a good one

So true soyp

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yha like I think the first poster was trying to say God never promised us a rose garden. That all was going to be fine and dandy once we ask God to live in us. In fact the word says we will go through hard times being Christians.

I went to a church who actually taught this once. How untrue this false doctrine is. and how destructive it can be!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And he is wrong The bible make is clear that you can walk away after receiving salvation

No. The Bible actually says that those who claim to have salvation can actually walk away. In doing so they proved they never had it to begin with.

Paul made it clear after we believed in salvation. And after having placed our faith in it. we are sealed with the HS of promise, who is our guarantee. And this guarantee is in place until; we are resurrected. (when we no longer need the seal as our salvation is complete) God did not say (through paul) this seal is only good if we keep our faith. or if we stop sinning, or anything. There was no condition given but one. Faith in Christ.

If the HS is ever taken away and this seal broken. Paul lied, God lied, and the rest of scripture is a farce.

I Can not and will not believe God, Who knows everything about me, Everything I will do think and say, will give me salvation and this seal knowing my faith is not real, and I am going to walk away. To even think such a thing, to me, takes away from the omniscience of God.

 

[4runner]

No. The Bible actually says that those who claim to have salvation can actually walk away. In doing so they proved they never had it to begin with.

Paul made it clear after we believed in salvation. And after having placed our faith in it. we are sealed with the HS of promise, who is our guarantee. And this guarantee is in place until; we are resurrected.

Actually Paul made it clear that we have no guarantee of resurrection outside of remaining faithful.

Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

If the HS is ever taken away and this seal broken. Paul lied, God lied, and the rest of scripture is a farce.

The only one lying here is you. You are either totally deceived or a deceiver, my guess is both

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually Paul made it clear that we have no guarantee of resurrection outside of remaining faithful.

Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

First off. You are typical of someone who only paints half the picture. If your going to use a verse or two to prove you point. The least you could do is show context. Leaving parts out will make people go look for themselves to make sure what you are posting actually says what you are saying.It is called testing to make sure what your saying actually comes from God. So lets look at the passage and see if Paul is talking about Grace (salvation), or if he is talking about something else.

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.


So, Paul is talking about a PRIZE. A reward. Since when is salvation a prize or a reward? Only those who are saved will be rewarded a prize or anything. Again, are you teaching a salvation which must be earned? Because that is what Paul is talking about here!

The only one lying here is you. You are either totally deceived or a deceiver, my guess is both

hey I am not the one who painted half a picture by posting something which appears to support you. But left out the parts which shows that the verse you used was taken totally out of context, and did not support you at all.

second. I already asked you to leave your judgmental attitude behind. Why is it you feel you have to judge? Are you God?

 

[schoolofyoungprophet]

Come on guys lets not argue on who will and who wont lose salvation..
If we are truly saved, even if we fall there will always be a hand to take us bak
we are to encourage each other in faith,so we both may stand strong in the Lord even at the times of trials
with so much of Riches in Christ Jesus (not talking abt money) are we seeking him,If we are lets rejoice in each other and focous on what God has done and gloryfy him..
we will never reach a brother who is fallen by condeming,but lets pray for the weaker ones,pray for the ones who is struggling and fighting weaknesses like we are.
lastly Yes Jesus is worthy of the reward of his suffering...

 

[Red33]

The truth that man can choose to walk away from their faith the same way they chose the receive it. You cannot ''loose your salvation'', but you can choose to give it back

Just like people we must check the fruit of doctrines, and eternal security produces bad fruit.

Here's an example of giving God back His salvation with sincerety.

Lord I appreciate your great salvation and the fact that you gave it freely to me by grace. I did not deserve your forgiveness and cleansing from sin, but I just don't have what it takes, like others do, to maintain it in my life. I seem to have no power over certain sins in my life and it would not be fair to you or other believers if I kept failing and at the same time profess myself to be a Christian or brother in Christ. Because of this inability on my part to keep myself in the grace and love of God and being unable to discipline myself through sanctification, I have no alternative but to give back freely what you have given me by grace. I do not know what you will do about the sins you have cleansed and forgiven me for, but if you have to impute them back to me then I will freely receive those sins back in my life.

- Please receive back your righteousness that you imputed to me when I believed.
- Please take back the gift of eternal life that you have given me.
- Please receive back your Holy Spirit that has been totally grieved in my life that you sent by promise to indwell me, to fill me with your love, to comfort me, to guide and lead me into all truth starting when I first believed.
- Please accept back, with the greatest apology, the new new birth and the incorruptible seed of the word that saved me.
- Please acknowledge my return back to you or your redemption, your reconciliation, your regeneration and the other (65) things that was imputed to my account when I first believed.
- I also realize that my adoption into sonship and my priesthood is no longer valid when I give back to you and sell out my birthright.
- I realize that my inheritance will be forfeited and any rewards that I might have received at the judgment seat of Christ.
- I realize that after writing my name in the Lamb's book of life that You will have to blot it out when I make this forfeiture of all that you gave to me by grace through faith through your Son.
- I now will have to live by my own righteousness in hopes that you will consider it acceptable in your sight, but I have no confidence that such an acceptance could ever take place.
- You had always promised that you would never leave me or forsake me and you kept your word, but I have failed to do the same for you. I guess I do not have or possess the same character, nature or attributes as you possess as the only true wise God.

- Finally, I pray that you will never restore to me your great and perfect salvation because I would only again fail to maintain it and would only turn the grace of your salvation into some form of lasciviousness or licentiousness, doing despite to the Spirit of grace and disgrace You in the process, because of your perfect holiness and perfection that I would never be able to attain to in this life or the next life to come. I would ask you to please forgive me of what I am about to do, but to some that is the unpardonable sin that I could never be forgiven for. Perhaps Lord, it would have been better that I was never born.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Another example"

Lord I no longer believe in your son. I at one time thought your son was real, But I no longer do.
As for you. You are just what people tell me Satan said you are. You are judgmental. You are not a God who loves, but a God who demands we live your way, even though I do not feel your way is right. I have fun with my sin, You say it is damaging, But I do not see it. When I have sex with many woman I get a new experience which you can not give me. When I get drunk, it takes away my sorrows which you have failed to do. When I lie, I get away with things, which I should not have to worry about consequences anyway. I am my own God. I know what is best for me, You say you do but you lied. Your son was a fraud "If he even was your son" If you are real, I should get in anyway, because who are you to tell me I am an evil person. I have never killed anyone. I have never stolen what is not rightfully mine. I have never started a war. So I am not really a bad person.

so take back this thing I thought would bring me happiness and joy, and shove it. Stick it where the sun don't shine, because that is about how much it is worth.

As for me. I will go back to what really made me happy. Nice knowing ya. if you exist at all.

 

[loveschild]

Another example"

Lord I no longer believe in your son. I at one time thought your son was real, But I no longer do.
As for you. You are just what people tell me Satan said you are. You are judgmental. You are not a God who loves, but a God who demands we live your way, even though I do not feel your way is right. I have fun with my sin, You say it is damaging, But I do not see it. When I have sex with many woman I get a new experience which you can not give me. When I get drunk, it takes away my sorrows which you have failed to do. When I lie, I get away with things, which I should not have to worry about consequences anyway. I am my own God. I know what is best for me, You say you do but you lied. Your son was a fraud "If he even was your son" If you are real, I should get in anyway, because who are you to tell me I am an evil person. I have never killed anyone. I have never stolen what is not rightfully mine. I have never started a war. So I am not really a bad person.

so take back this thing I thought would bring me happiness and joy, and shove it. Stick it where the sun don't shine, because that is about how much it is worth.

As for me. I will go back to what really made me happy. Nice knowing ya. if you exist at all.

How bout the simple fact that most people say they are Christians and have never had faith to trusted God ever. Never surrendered to God. Never obeyed him. Lots of people say their Christians. Are they? Were they ever really?

 

[loveschild]

a peracher once said"If Christians no longer need to repent then Jesus missed it when He told 5 of the 7 churches to repent in Revelations!"
pretty intresting thought and a good one

All churches should be paying close attention to those letters.

 

[Red33]

I don't have a proiblem with Eternal Security, I simply do not believe it's unconditional. When you understand true biblical sanctification, Eternal security begins to make sense. However, I do believe that Unconditional Eternal Security is a farce and, for most who believe in this doctrine, it only leads to religious pride and license to sin freely. I've notice that many, not all, who embrace this doctrine are some of the most prideful and carnal people that profess to be christians that I personally have met.

However, it should be said that Eternally Gratefully is probably one of the few respectful people who embrace this doctrine on these boards.

If God's Eternal Salvation and Redemption is not unconditional to every one that believes by faith, then the love of God is not unconditional either. If God's love is not unconditional then it is conditional and that would make the love that God had for the world conditional and everything that the Son was sent to do conditional. That would mean that the love that Christ has for the church is not unconditional and the love a husband has for his wife does not have to be unconditional either. If the love of God is not unconditional toward man, then we do not have to love our neighbor unconditionally, nor the brethren unconditionally, nor the worst sinner that God would desire to save, forgive and cleanse from all sin.

This would make the work of the cross and the blood of Christ an unfinished and conditional work that man would have to strive to merit through his best behavior and self-righteousness instead of unconditionally believing by faith and trusting in the grace of God and the blood of Christ. No more would grace be undeserved favour from God. No more would Jesus Christ be needed as the propitiation and mercy seat for our sins. We would not need to be justified by the blood of Christ and by grace through faith that was appropriated and made available to all sinners through the cross.

The cross would become conditional in its dealing with the sins of only those who are able to maintain their salvation through their own efforts of cooperation with sanctification and the putting off the flesh. Conditional salvation and redemption would not allow for any sin or failure on the part of the believer without a mandate of repentance. Repentance would be a constant mandate to rid the believer of his sin instead of faith in the cross and blood of Christ. Sanctification would also be conditionally based on the believer's ability to abstain from sin and the lusts of the flesh so that they could go on to perfection and holiness. Striving would take the place of faith-rest in the love of God and the finished work of Christ.

 

[unclefester]

If God's Eternal Salvation and Redemption is not unconditional to every one that believes by faith, then the love of God is not unconditional either. If God's love is not unconditional then it is conditional and that would make the love that God had for the world conditional and everything that the Son was sent to do conditional. That would mean that the love that Christ has for the church is not unconditional and the love a husband has for his wife does not have to be unconditional either. If the love of God is not unconditional toward man, then we do not have to love our neighbor unconditionally, nor the brethren unconditionally, nor the worst sinner that God would desire to save, forgive and cleanse from all sin.

This would make the work of the cross and the blood of Christ an unfinished and conditional work that man would have to strive to merit through his best behavior and self-righteousness instead of unconditionally believing by faith and trusting in the grace of God and the blood of Christ. No more would grace be undeserved favour from God. No more would Jesus Christ be needed as the propitiation and mercy seat for our sins. We would not need to be justified by the blood of Christ and by grace through faith that was appropriated and made available to all sinners through the cross.

The cross would become conditional in its dealing with the sins of only those who are able to maintain their salvation through their own efforts of cooperation with sanctification and the putting off the flesh. Conditional salvation and redemption would not allow for any sin or failure on the part of the believer without a mandate of repentance. Repentance would be a constant mandate to rid the believer of his sin instead of faith in the cross and blood of Christ. Sanctification would also be conditionally based on the believer's ability to abstain from sin and the lusts of the flesh so that they could go on to perfection and holiness. Striving would take the place of faith-rest in the love of God and the finished work of Christ.

So very well said Red. Two big thumbs up !

 

[4runner]

If God's Eternal Salvation and Redemption is not unconditional to every one that believes by faith, then the love of God is not unconditional either.

This is absolutely false.

God loves those that hate Him and choose Hell over Heaven, but they must still meet the conditions for salvation. Unless you are an universalist. But that is another debate all together

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

There's not a soul on earth, in heaven or in hell that God does not love. Christ came so that all who would believe can be saved. God is not a respecter of persons, anyone can be saved but not everyone will.

Salvation is conditional, if it were not then there would have been no reason for Christ to have gone to the cross. God could have simply could have forgiven every sin that had ever been committed in the past, present or future. However, God did not do that. Salvation is only granted for those who believe that Christ died to save us FROM sin, not a partial victory where the believer is saved in is sin. The penalty for sin as always been and still is death.

 

[Red33]

This is absolutely false.

God loves those that hate Him and choose Hell over Heaven, but they must still meet the conditions for salvation. Unless you are an universalist. But that is another debate all together

We don't meet any conditions for salvation, Christ provided and obtained eternal redemption and salvation for us through His own sacrifice on the cross (Heb 9:12). The only work that we do is to believe upon the Son to have life (Jn 6:29). We believe on one condition, FAITH upon the Son and we are saved forever (Acts 15:11, 16:31, Rom 10:9) without the possibility of being unsaved or giving it back to God. We have been bought with a price and we are no longer our own (1Cor 6:20, 7:23, 2Tim 1:9). We are His purchased possession (Acts 20:28, Eph 1:14, 2Pt 2:1), who have been called to His eternal purpose (Eph 3:9-12).

 

[Red33]

There's not a soul on earth, in heaven or in hell that God does not love. Christ came so that all who would believe can be saved. God is not a respecter of persons, anyone can be saved but not everyone will.

Salvation is conditional, if it were not then there would have been no reason for Christ to have gone to the cross. God could have simply could have forgiven every sin that had ever been committed in the past, present or future. However, God did not do that. Salvation is only granted for those who believe that Christ died to save us FROM sin, not a partial victory where the believer is saved in is sin. The penalty for sin as always been and still is death.

All the demands and conditions for the justice of God concerning sin was met through the sacrifice of His Son. All we have to do, as sinners, is believe upon what the Son did to satisfy God's justice and we instantly receive and have imputed to us the benefits of redemption and salvation all by grace.