Free Will - A More Exhaustive Look

[FreeGrace2]

Then explain the following:

Deuteronomy 30:6 NLT - "The LORD your God will change your heart and the hearts of all your descendants, so that you will love him with all your heart and soul and so you may live!"

So simple. "change your heart" is a reference to regeneration. Which follows faith in Christ.

The "so that" explains that regeneration is necessary BEFORE we can love Him.

Jesus even taught that to the woman at the well in John 4.
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

Here, Jesus was telling her that in order to worship God (love Him) one MUST have the reborn human spirit and understand the truth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

@Thewatchman

Have you ever struggled with porn? How about swearing? How about lust for actual women that you meet? How about stealing? Alcoholism? Drug addiction? Have you ever felt out of control of yourself to the point where you begged that God would change you because you could not change yourself? Have you ever identified with Paul when he wrote:

Romans 7:19-20 NLT - "I want to do what is good, but I don't. I don't want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. 20 But if I do what I don't want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it."

So, what about you? And if you have prayed such a prayer, why would you deny that God causes us to change?

God gives strength when His children ask for it. The believer's power to life the supernatural Christian life comes from the Holy Spirit, who lives in us (indwelling). However, we HAVE TO BE filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) in order to access His power.

The only way is by asking. But first, have you confessed all known sins before you ask for the filling? 1 John 1:9 restores fellowship with the Lord and opens up communication with Him. Psa 68:18 tells us that because of sins, God doesn't hear our prayers.

So one must be in fellowship before they ask for the filling of the Holy Spirit.

Believers who do struggle with porn, swearing, lusting, stealing, drunkeness, addictions and are able to stop them from their own will do NOT please God. Why not? Because all our own righteousnesses are "filthy rags" to God. That means our "goodness" from our own will stinks like a used menstrual rag (actual literal meaning). Isa 64:6

 

[Thewatchman]

God gives strength when His children ask for it. The believer's power to life the supernatural Christian life comes from the Holy Spirit, who lives in us (indwelling). However, we HAVE TO BE filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) in order to access His power.

The only way is by asking. But first, have you confessed all known sins before you ask for the filling? 1 John 1:9 restores fellowship with the Lord and opens up communication with Him. Psa 68:18 tells us that because of sins, God doesn't hear our prayers.

So one must be in fellowship before they ask for the filling of the Holy Spirit.

Believers who do struggle with porn, swearing, lusting, stealing, drunkeness, addictions and are able to stop them from their own will do NOT please God. Why not? Because all our own righteousnesses are "filthy rags" to God. That means our "goodness" from our own will stinks like a used menstrual rag (actual literal meaning). Isa 64:6

Have I struggled with things yes. Have I turned my back on God yes I have. The bible says it hurts to kick against the pric; well I have kicked it out of the way before and God took a jack hammer to me to get me to wake up and return. My probem became my business it became my god, I would work 7 days a week 10, 12, 14, hous a day. I was a reck drove me to a brake down. I spent time in the V.A. sick unit. After I got out; My wife's uncle J.R. Was a help to me. I said I was a christian, I believe in God. He took me under his wing and started teaching me how to study the bible not just read it. Study it verse by verse get to know the subject, know who is talking, who are they talking to. He got me to start reading the King James version of the bible, get a good Strong's concordance and the Smith's Bible Dictionary. I still have good days and bad but I pray ask God for help shake the depression off and move on. On my good day which are more often than bad I say Thsnk You Lord for taking care of me.

 

[Thewatchman]

God gives strength when His children ask for it. The believer's power to life the supernatural Christian life comes from the Holy Spirit, who lives in us (indwelling). However, we HAVE TO BE filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) in order to access His power.

The only way is by asking. But first, have you confessed all known sins before you ask for the filling? 1 John 1:9 restores fellowship with the Lord and opens up communication with Him. Psa 68:18 tells us that because of sins, God doesn't hear our prayers.

So one must be in fellowship before they ask for the filling of the Holy Spirit.

Believers who do struggle with porn, swearing, lusting, stealing, drunkeness, addictions and are able to stop them from their own will do NOT please God. Why not? Because all our own righteousnesses are "filthy rags" to God. That means our "goodness" from our own will stinks like a used menstrual rag (actual literal meaning). Isa 64:6

God gives strength when His children ask for it. The believer's power to life the supernatural Christian life comes from the Holy Spirit, who lives in us (indwelling). However, we HAVE TO BE filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) in order to access His power.

The only way is by asking. But first, have you confessed all known sins before you ask for the filling? 1 John 1:9 restores fellowship with the Lord and opens up communication with Him. Psa 68:18 tells us that because of sins, God doesn't hear our prayers.

So one must be in fellowship before they ask for the filling of the Holy Spirit.

Believers who do struggle with porn, swearing, lusting, stealing, drunkeness, addictions and are able to stop them from their own will do NOT please God. Why not? Because all our own righteousnesses are "filthy rags" to God. That means our "goodness" from our own will stinks like a used menstrual rag (actual literal meaning). Isa 64:6

So, what about you? And if you have prayed such a prayer, why would you deny that God causes us to change?
I do not deny that God changes us, that the new spirit He puts in us causes us to want to change. What I have said and his time I will put it different God is a gentelman He stands at the door and knocks and if you open the door He comes in and will change your life.
I will send more to you when I have some more time.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Have I struggled with things yes. Have I turned my back on God yes I have. The bible says it hurts to kick against the pric; well I have kicked it out of the way before and God took a jack hammer to me to get me to wake up and return. My probem became my business it became my god, I would work 7 days a week 10, 12, 14, hous a day. I was a reck drove me to a brake down. I spent time in the V.A. sick unit. After I got out; My wife's uncle J.R. Was a help to me. I said I was a christian, I believe in God. He took me under his wing and started teaching me how to study the bible not just read it. Study it verse by verse get to know the subject, know who is talking, who are they talking to. He got me to start reading the King James version of the bible, get a good Strong's concordance and the Smith's Bible Dictionary. I still have good days and bad but I pray ask God for help shake the depression off and move on. On my good day which are more often than bad I say Thsnk You Lord for taking care of me.

Keep remembering 1 John 1:9 for being in fellowship, and Eph 5:18 for the filling of the Spirit, which is obeyed by asking for it, per 1 John 5:14,15.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So, what about you? And if you have prayed such a prayer, why would you deny that God causes us to change?

It's NOT about God unilaterally changing people, which is the Calvinist view. 1 John 5:14,15 tell us to pray "according to God's will". That would include the commands, including being filled with the Spirit. So asking to be filled isn't a unilateral action on God's part.

He is responding to a request. And He will do it.

I do not deny that God changes us, that the new spirit He puts in us causes us to want to change.

I disagree. Neither God the Father nor God the Spirit CAUSES us to want to change. WE have to decide to change. And God will give us everything we need in order to change.

Listen to this:
2 Pet 1-
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Even though He has given us "everything we need" we NEED to access that in order to use it. That requires being in fellowship through confession of sins (1 John 1;9), asking for the filling of the Spirit (1 John 5:14,15).

What I have said and his time I will put it different God is a gentelman He stands at the door and knocks and if you open the door He comes in and will change your life.

Well said!! That is exactly what Rev 3:20 is about. Being in fellowship with the Lord and wanting change.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I'm sorry if I have hurt your feelings, but...

I have not and will not seek your apology, but rather, maturity.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

None who have opposed the Scriptures that God has given us has entered into a reasonable, rational conversation where you answer the questions and positions that I have asked and provided. Therefore, there is no reason to continue to offer my time to conversate with you until reason and ration become a part of your communication style.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

On Day 135 of the timeline, chronological reading plan (yesterdays post), we found a Biblical writer (king David) asking that the Lord would take control of the minds of his enemies and frustrate them. Here, we find that David is once again asking for a repeat of God’s miraculous Powers, that His Holy Mind Control would be applied to those who “angrily hunt him down” (Psa 055:03).

Psalm 55:9 NLT - "Confuse them, Lord, and frustrate their plans, for I see violence and conflict in the city."

It seems to be a useful argument to turn this concept upon each of us, the readers. What if I were to pray this prayer about those of you who refuse these Scriptures? What if I were to ask God to "confuse them" who oppose me? Is it possible that God would honor such a prayer? Or, what if you prayed this prayer about me, that God would confuse me, or perhaps unconfuse me (as you all seem to suggest that I am)? If I prayed that God would confuse you, the reader, would it upset you?

I can assure you that if any of you were to pray that God would grant me wisdom in this matter, I would NOT be upset. I need all the help that I can get, for I acknowledge that any Understanding, Knowledge, and Wisdom does not come from myself, but from our Creator. But since virtually all of you oppose these Scriptures, does it upset you that a person might ask God to confuse you; to frustrate your plans? Surely, this prayer would be in opposition of your current state of "free will," so does it bother you?

And so I will say it again, if God does not have the capacity to control what a person thinks, says, and does, what an incredibly odd prayer for David to offer up to the Lord, for what I believe is now the third time.

 

[LoveBrokeThru]

These Hyper Calvinism TROLL Threads, should be banned.

Hyper Calvinism is one of the worst scourges of Christianity ever created by such a scripture twisting self righteous rascal, as J. Calvin.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

These Hyper Calvinism TROLL Threads, should be banned.

Hyper Calvinism is one of the worst scourges of Christianity ever created by such a scripture twisting self righteous rascal, as J. Calvin.

Why? And how are these Scriptures "Hyper Calvinism"? This is the Word of God that you're bashing, not the word of 2ndtimothygroup. I'd be careful with how you label the Word of God . . . you're walking on dangerous grounds.

Now, if you'd like to enter into mature, reasonable, and rational discussion regarding these passages, I'd be willing to dialog with you. However, your initial approach is less than savory. I don't get the feeling that reason and ration are your friends.

 

[FreeGrace2]

LoveBrokeThru said:
These Hyper Calvinism TROLL Threads, should be banned.

Hyper Calvinism is one of the worst scourges of Christianity ever created by such a scripture twisting self righteous rascal, as J. Calvin.

Why? And how are these Scriptures "Hyper Calvinism"? This is the Word of God that you're bashing, not the word of 2ndtimothygroup. I'd be careful with how you label the Word of God . . . you're walking on dangerous grounds.

Now, if you'd like to enter into mature, reasonable, and rational discussion regarding these passages, I'd be willing to dialog with you. However, your initial approach is less than savory. I don't get the feeling that reason and ration are your friends.

The poster's point is the false doctrine that God unilaterally causes people to do what they wouldn't ordinarily or naturally do.

God certainly doesn't make people sin or rebel against Himself.

 

[Magenta]

But what if the Lord shows Himself to a person in a most Powerful way? When this happens, ie, a person experiencing the Almighty Power of God in His form of Peace and Love, it is impossible NOT to Love Him.

The beauty of Duet 30:6 is that God will Circumcise the hearts of His Holy Elect "so that" they will Love Him. Not my words, but those of the Bible:

Deuteronomy 30:6 NLT - "The LORD your God will change your heart and the hearts of all your descendants, so that you will love him with all your heart and soul and so you may live!"

Deut 30:6 says that He [does] cause His Elect to Love Him.

What do you think about this verse? Is it True or False?

Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

And yet it was just said this morning that this is "hyper Calvinism."

 

[Magenta]

And yet it was just said this morning that this is "hyper Calvinism."

It does seem there is some controversy over when our hearts are changed, with one side saying
it is after we believe, and others saying heart circumcision happens before we believe, and actually
enables us to believe, since the natural man cannot accept the things that come from God.

1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[Polar]

The verse is not hyper calvinism. The way Calvinists twist it is actually hyper or just run of the mill Calvinism or reformed beliefs.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Here's a little more "Hpyer Calvinism" for us this afternoon. Good luck in denying this one. Below, we once again find David enduring the abuse, and this time it is by Shimei. When Abishai runs to the defense of his king, king David shuts down Abishai just as Jesus shut down Peter. Why? Because David made it clear that he believed that God had instructed Shimei to do all that he had done and say all that he had said. Incredibly, there is a purpose to these things, according to David, which is that there my be a reward. In other words, David believes that this is a test.

2 Samuel 16:10-12 ESV - "But the king said, "What have I to do with you, you sons of Zeruiah? If he is cursing because the LORD has said to him, 'Curse David,' who then shall say, 'Why have you done so?'" 11 And David said to Abishai and to all his servants, "Behold, my own son seeks my life; how much more now may this Benjaminite! Leave him alone, and let him curse, for the LORD has told him to. 12 It may be that the LORD will look on the wrong done to me, and that the LORD will repay me with good for his cursing today."

In this story that begins in verse 5, not only is king David giving us an amazing pre-image of Jesus as He was about to be hung upon a cross to die, but David is claiming that the Lord has caused Shimei to speak and act exactly as he had. If this is True, what can we say, then, about our alleged sense of free will (FW)? Can we honestly say that we have the unrestricted right to make our own decisions after reading passages such as this? Would the Lord have been unfair to Shimei if he were punished for the things he said and did to king David and his courtiers? One thing is sure, and it is that there is absolutely no doubt that the Lord controls our thinking . . . and this is done at His discretion to fulfill His Almighty, Powerful Plan.

Is it right that God would cause Shimei to curse David and his men up one side and down the other? And worse, this is done for the reward of David? Imagine that . . . the Sin of Shimei is caused by God for the benefit of David?

To say that God is in control of [all] things is accurate. Nevertheless, Shimei curses David, though it doesn't seem to bother him much. Why? David knows that God is in control of all things and that all events have meaning; nothing goes outside of the counsel of God. So, we should consider all elements of life and trust God in them, even persecution such as one throwing rocks and stones. David's position is to say nothing and do nothing because the attack is personal and not against the Lord. David seems to be following the same path of Christ, which is not to become offended over personal matters, but to become offended over Godly values.

I highly recommend that everyone become familiar with this story, as in my opinion, it is one of the most important stories of the entire Bible.

 

[Polar]

David again? It was not convincing the first time you regaled us with your personal understanding on him.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It does seem there is some controversy over when our hearts are changed, with one side saying
it is after we believe, and others saying heart circumcision happens before we believe, and actually
enables us to believe, since the natural man cannot accept the things that come from God.

1 Corinthians 2:14

No doubt, this is a difficult thing to understand and worth discussing. In my opinion, I find it difficult to believe that a person can choose to believe in Christ while they remain under the Curse of the Lord, the Curse that stems from Adam and Eve. If a person could believe and put their Trust into Christ while they remain Cursed, then what is the Purpose of the Circumcision of Christ? If a person can conduct Righteous and Holy living while under the Curse, then the Curse is nothing more than folly. It is a silly Curse that doesn't seem to be too effective.

The beauty of this passage above is that a person cannot "Understand" until they receive the Spirit, but no one can possess the Spirit while they are Cursed. No way. The House of God, which is supposed to be our bodily Temple, will not share space with the Devil and the Spirit at the same time. We cannot serve two masters. So for the Spirit to Indwell a person, they must be taken out of the Devil's grasp, removed from the captivity of the Devil which compels a person to do his evil will.

Further still, this passage shows that a person does not possess the will to Understand unless the Spirit has been granted. If a person has the capacity to choose and believe in Spiritual matters [without] the Spirit, then the Spirit is also rendered as folly and ineffective.

Thanks! This is but yet another passage that shows that God enables a person to believe.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Whoa . . . we forgot verse 16, which is vital:

"For, "Who can know the LORD's thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?" But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ."

A person has the capacity to understand the things of the Spirit if they DON'T have the mind of Christ? Doesn't this further show and prove that in order to freely think in a Righteous and Pure manner that they must be given the Spirit which runs in line with the Mind of Christ?

It is clear, that anyone who does not possess the Mind of Christ is incapable of making the same choices, thinking the same thoughts, and behaving as one would if they have the Mind of Christ. If all of these things are available to a person through their own free will, then Christ is of no relevance.