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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
113
Oh dear....:(:eek::oops::unsure:

Everybody be careful... pride may be causing some strife in the camp.....:unsure:

When the Holy Spirit opens our understanding and teaches us what the scriptures mean.... the knowledge we receive from God does NOT and will NEVER puff us up with pride which causes us to attack each other and/or we feel the need to declare how much study we have done during our lifetime or pull out all the seminary degrees and big words. lol!:giggle:

Rather, the knowledge we receive from God will HUMBLE us, making us gentle towards each other when discussing scripture. For we know, that we only know what we know, because God in His GREAT mercy revealed His Truth to us. :love:(y)
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,332
1,187
113
Right. And your point?

Again, the gospel message is about salvation through trust. You haven't shown me how that message is "spiritual".

Nor have you explained the difference between what is "spiritual" and what isn't.
If all of the scriptures are inspired by God, then they are all spiritual. Spiritual instructions from a spiritual God./ I think that you stand alone with your theory.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,332
1,187
113
Oh dear....:(:eek::oops::unsure:

Everybody be careful... pride may be causing some strife in the camp.....:unsure:

When the Holy Spirit opens our understanding and teaches us what the scriptures mean.... the knowledge we receive from God does NOT and will NEVER puff us up with pride which causes us to attack each other and/or we feel the need to declare how much study we have done during our lifetime or pull out all the seminary degrees and big words. lol!:giggle:

Rather, the knowledge we receive from God will HUMBLE us, making us gentle towards each other when discussing scripture. For we know, that we only know what we know, because God in His GREAT mercy revealed His Truth to us. :love:(y)
Many of us will feel a little guilt from reading your post. Every word in your post is exactly right.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
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Right. And your point?

Again, the gospel message is about salvation through trust. You haven't shown me how that message is "spiritual".

Nor have you explained the difference between what is "spiritual" and what isn't.
Hello @FreeGrace2

Truly, the gospel message of salvation is indeed spiritual. God translates us from the kingdom of darkness into His Kingdom of Light - these are "spiritual kingdoms." Spiritual "Ownership" of us changes from Satan to God. We now belong to Jesus Christ - He bought and paid for us.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Salvation is PAID IN FULL. There is NOTHING left to do for Salvation except…..BELIEVE.

The Blood of Jesus Christ takes away our sin and His Body is the Human Fulfillment of the Law that we were required to obey and fulfill….IN CHRIST, “It is finished.”

We know Sin and Death entered through Adam and Eve’s rebellion to God’s Will for them.

Salvation entered through Christ the Anointed and only begotten Son of God - His obedience to God’s Will for Him and All that will….believe in Him shall be born again in Christ and live.

God seals every Believer with His Holy Spirit and we begin our journey as God’s Child…we are learning but NEVER are we not God’s Child…we are FOREVER SAVED and FOREVER HIS, amen.

DO NOT DOUBT YOUR SALVATION ANY LONGER…you are loved, you are saved in Christ ALONE…..enjoy your journey! :love:(y)
Amen.

John 6:29-34 KJV
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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If all of the scriptures are inspired by God, then they are all spiritual.
That is an opinion. You just think so.

Spiritual instructions from a spiritual God. I think that you stand alone with your theory.
You can't explain how trust is spiritual. I'm not the one with a theory here.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Hello @FreeGrace2

Truly, the gospel message of salvation is indeed spiritual. God translates us from the kingdom of darkness into His Kingdom of Light - these are "spiritual kingdoms." Spiritual "Ownership" of us changes from Satan to God. We now belong to Jesus Christ - He bought and paid for us.
However, when a person hears the gospel message of TRUSTING in the work of Christ on your behalf, there is nothing about spiritual kingdoms in the message. It is simply a message of trust.

So, if the gospel is a spiritual message, can you please explain how trust is spiritual?

Thank you.

I think Calvinists are just using 1 Cor 2:14 as a support for their unbiblical view that unbelievers must be first regenerated (spiritual act) before they can understand and believe the gospel. That isn't biblical.

Since we have Titus 2:11, which says God's grace offers salvation to everyone, it is or should be clear that anyone can believe.

I look forward to your explanation.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,699
113
That does not say or mean that Christ's death saves anyone.
Does.

no one is held accountable for sins, and no one goes to hell for their sins.
This is dangerous heresy. No one will profit from the Atonement unless they ask Jesus into their hearts. The Bible clearly states that people will go to Hell if they reject Jesus. I don't know what the name of your religion is, but it is not Christianity.

This verse shows that God does NOT count people's sins against them.
The Blood of Jesus is required to save a man from death and Hell, and if he rejects the Atonement, then he is hell bound.

So, why will people be cast into the lake of fire after the GWT judgment?
Because they neglected such great salvation.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
no one is held accountable for sins, and no one goes to hell for their sins.
This is dangerous heresy.
It's not nice calling the Bible a dangerous heresy.

No one will profit from the Atonement unless they ask Jesus into their hearts.
And you're wrong here as well. Show me the verse where "asking Jesus into one's heart" saves. And Rev 3:10 was written to Christians.

The Bible clearly states that people will go to Hell if they reject Jesus.
Please share this "clear" verse then. Rather, the Bible says that people will be cast into the lake of fire because they didn't possess eternal life. Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.

I don't know what the name of your religion is, but it is not Christianity.
All you've given me is your opinion. I've given you VERSES that say what I believe.

The Blood of Jesus is required to save a man from death and Hell, and if he rejects the Atonement, then he is hell bound.
I do believe that those who don't receive eternal life shall perish.

FreeGrace2 said:
So, why will people be cast into the lake of fire after the GWT judgment?
Because they neglected such great salvation.
Their names weren't in the book of life, because they didn't take the free gift of eternal life.

I will wait patiently for you to find some verses that support all your opinions here.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
113
However, when a person hears the gospel message of TRUSTING in the work of Christ on your behalf, there is nothing about spiritual kingdoms in the message. It is simply a message of trust.

So, if the gospel is a spiritual message, can you please explain how trust is spiritual?

Thank you.

I think Calvinists are just using 1 Cor 2:14 as a support for their unbiblical view that unbelievers must be first regenerated (spiritual act) before they can understand and believe the gospel. That isn't biblical.

Since we have Titus 2:11, which says God's grace offers salvation to everyone, it is or should be clear that anyone can believe.

I look forward to your explanation.
Hello again! :love:

I really don't like denominations that divide us. I claim NONE of them! I'm just simply in love with God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, God the Holy Spirit! :love:(y)

Let me say I do agree with you that unbelievers do NOT and CANNOT be regenerated before they can understand and believe the gospel message of salvation in Jesus Christ.

Unbelievers can only understand the gospel message by the Holy Spirit giving them understanding of it and that it is TRUE but , they will still need to choose to either accept or reject the gospel message. Regeneration CANNOT begin until they accept and love the Truth of Jesus Christ as the ONLY Savior and Lord and King.

If they reject the gospel (Jesus Christ) then they are NOT saved and will NOT be regenerated.

If they accept the gospel (Jesus Christ) by loving the Truth then they WILL be regenerated by receiving the Blood of Jesus Christ that takes their sin away and the Body of Jesus Christ that imputes God's Righteousness in them; God now seals them with His Holy Spirit.

Also, they will want to be water baptized and be empowered with the Holy Spirit Baptism by so doing all of this, they are regenerated and spiritual ownership changes from Satan to Jesus Christ. They are FOREVER God's Child in Christ Jesus.

Regarding TRUST....

The gospel message of salvation is by FAITH in Jesus Christ. Faith is believing by KNOWING because of evidence - Faith has evidence. Trust does not have evidence. Trust is believing even though there is NO evidence and we do NOT KNOW the end result. Trust has to develop over time.

Faith is believing immediately because of evidence.
Trust takes time to believe because of lack of evidence.... Trust will need to develop.


Faith is spiritual.
Trust is relational.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Howdy, Ma'am!


I really don't like denominations that divide us. I claim NONE of them! I'm just simply in love with God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, God the Holy Spirit! :love:(y)
I haven't been in a
denominational church for many decades!

Let me say I do agree with you that unbelievers do NOT and CANNOT be regenerated before they can understand and believe the gospel message of salvation in Jesus Christ.
(y)


Unbelievers can only understand the gospel message by the Holy Spirit giving them understanding of it and that it is TRUE but , they will still need to choose to either accept or reject the gospel message. Regeneration CANNOT begin until they accept and love the Truth of Jesus Christ as the ONLY Savior and Lord and King.
Amen!


If they reject the gospel (Jesus Christ) then they are NOT saved and will NOT be regenerated.
Amen!


If they accept the gospel (Jesus Christ) by loving the Truth then they WILL be regenerated by receiving the Blood of Jesus Christ that takes their sin away and the Body of Jesus Christ that imputes God's Righteousness in them; God now seals them with His Holy Spirit.
To be clear, "loving the truth" means to believe the gospel. Regeneration is by the Holy Spririt, not by receiving the blood of Jesus. In fact, the term "blood of Jesus" is technical for Christ's finished work on the cross in paying for the sin debt of all of mankind. We don't "receive the blood of Jesus".


Also, they will want to be water baptized and be empowered with the Holy Spirit Baptism by so doing all of this, they are regenerated and spiritual ownership changes from Satan to Jesus Christ. They are FOREVER God's Child in Christ Jesus.
Regeneration occurs the MOMENT of saving faith. Not by water baptized. According to Acts 10 and the example of Cornelius, the baptism of the Holy Spirit occurred before he was water baptized.


Regarding TRUST....
The gospel message of salvation is by FAITH in Jesus Christ. Faith is believing by KNOWING because of evidence - Faith has evidence. Trust does not have evidence.

I disagree here. James 2:19 has been abused by those who claim the "faith of demons" doesn't save", when that isn't even the issue. The demons believe because they experienced the Trinity as FACT. But they aren't trusting in the Trinity in any sense.

Trust involves believing what God says. We don't have to experience (facts) God to trust Him. We can see His power in creation even though we weren't there when He created. I've never seen Jesus perform miracles, but I certainly believe that He did.

Trust is believing even though there is NO evidence and we do NOT KNOW the end result. Trust has to develop over time.
This is different than your previous paragraph. Conflicting, even.


Faith is believing immediately because of evidence.
Faith does not require evidence. It requires trust.


Trust takes time to believe because of lack of evidence.... Trust will need to develop.
Faith is spiritual.
Trust is relational.
I don't agree. The Greek lexicon for "pisteuo" (believe) means to trust.

They are basically the same concept.

Here's another definition for "believe" and "trust". Taking God at His Word. It's that simple.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
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Howdy, Ma'am!

To be clear, "loving the truth" means to believe the gospel.


People can believe the gospel and NOT love it because they love their sin more. They love the darkness more than the light. One needs to believe AND love the Truth.

Regeneration is by the Holy Spirit, not by receiving the blood of Jesus. In fact, the term "blood of Jesus" is technical for Christ's finished work on the cross in paying for the sin debt of all of mankind. We don't "receive the blood of Jesus".


Regeneration is by the Holy Spirit giving us understanding of the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ as the One and ONLY Savior. Only His Blood takes away our sin and Only His Body gives us the Righteousness of God which is the Human Fulfillment of the Law that God required from all of mankind.

The Holy Spirit gives us understanding and leads us through the entire process of Regeneration which involves:

- Hearing the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ with ears to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying which we believe by Faith because we know it is True.
- We believe it and LOVE the Truth thereby Receive Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King;
- We repent of our sins and receive the atonement of the Blood of Jesus Christ that takes our sins away;
- We receive the Body of Jesus Christ that gives us the Righteousness of God;
- God now seals us with His Holy Spirit; We are saved;
- God now empowers us with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and we desire to be water baptized and do so with joy;
- Now, we are regenerated also known as Born Again or Reborn... Regenerated.
- Lastly, it's time to grow and mature... learn God's Word, His Ways, His Truth, His Will... learn to make right decisions, walk in the Spirit, walk in wisdom, etc.... it's another process.



Regeneration occurs the MOMENT of saving faith. Not by water baptized. According to Acts 10 and the example of Cornelius, the baptism of the Holy Spirit occurred before he was water baptized.


Water baptism is just a very small part of being regenerated.

Regeneration is the process of being Born Again which Jesus Christ told Nicodemus that being born again is by water and Spirit. Even Jesus Christ went through the water baptism and Holy Spirit Baptism at the Jordan River. Then, off to the wilderness to be tempted...


I disagree here. James 2:19 has been abused by those who claim the "faith of demons" doesn't save", when that isn't even the issue. The demons believe because they experienced the Trinity as FACT. But they aren't trusting in the Trinity in any sense.


The gospel message of salvation is received by FAITH in Jesus Christ, not trust. Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things NOT seen. Faith is believing IMMEDIATELY. Trust takes time to develop, Faith is immediate.


Trust involves believing what God says. We don't have to experience (facts) God to trust Him. We can see His power in creation even though we weren't there when He created. I've never seen Jesus perform miracles, but I certainly believe that He did.

Trust is believing what God says but, only because we've been through some trials and tribulations and good times and bad times with God and He has proven Himself faithful to all He has promised. Trusting God takes time to develop....little by little.



This is different than your previous paragraph. Conflicting, even.
I see no conflict.

Faith does not require evidence. It requires trust.
Faith is the evidence and the substance. Faith is believing immediately because we've received like a "computer download file in our brain and heart" and we NOW KNOW because we've been given knowledge of undeniable Truth.

Faith does NOT require trust.

I don't agree. The Greek lexicon for "pisteuo" (believe) means to trust.

They are basically the same concept.

Here's another definition for "believe" and "trust". Taking God at His Word. It's that simple.
Faith is believing God because we KNOW. (This happens immediately)
Trust is believing God even when we do NOT KNOW. (This takes time)
 
Jan 31, 2021
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People can believe the gospel and NOT love it because they love their sin more. They love the darkness more than the light. One needs to believe AND love the Truth.

Do you believe that salvation is based on belief? I hope so. Do you have a verse that says one is saved by "loving the truth"?


Regeneration is by the Holy Spirit giving us understanding of the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ as the One and ONLY Savior.
Actually, regeneration occurs "through faith". iow, the faith goes first, then salvation/regeneration.

Only His Blood takes away our sin and Only His Body gives us the Righteousness of God which is the Human Fulfillment of the Law that God required from all of mankind.
Actually, God gives us imputed righteousness of Christ.


The Holy Spirit gives us understanding and leads us through the entire process of Regeneration which involves:
- Hearing the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ with ears to hear what the Holy Spirit is saying which we believe by Faith because we know it is True.
- We believe it and LOVE the Truth thereby Receive Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King;
- We repent of our sins and receive the atonement of the Blood of Jesus Christ that takes our sins away;
- We receive the Body of Jesus Christ that gives us the Righteousness of God;
- God now seals us with His Holy Spirit; We are saved;
- God now empowers us with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and we desire to be water baptized and do so with joy;
- Now, we are regenerated also known as Born Again or Reborn... Regenerated.
- Lastly, it's time to grow and mature... learn God's Word, His Ways, His Truth, His Will... learn to make right decisions, walk in the Spirit, walk in wisdom, etc.... it's another process.

Are there verses for each of these points?


Water baptism is just a very small part of being regenerated.
Water baptism has NO part in our salvation/regeneration/justification.


Regeneration is the process of being Born Again which Jesus Christ told Nicodemus that being born again is by water and Spirit.
Seems you are thinking of John 3. However, the term "water and the Spirit" refers specifically to His death on the cross and the Holy Spirit.

Even Jesus Christ went through the water baptism and Holy Spirit Baptism at the Jordan River.
What was the point of Jesus' water baptism? Can you explain it?

Do you have Scriptural support for Jesus receiving Holy Spirit baptism at any time?

Then, off to the wilderness to be tempted...
And.....?


The gospel message of salvation is received by FAITH in Jesus Christ, not trust.
They mean the same thing.

Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things NOT seen. Faith is believing IMMEDIATELY. Trust takes time to develop, Faith is immediate.
Do you have clear Scripture that makes this distinction?


Trust is believing what God says but, only because we've been through some trials and tribulations and good times and bad times with God and He has proven Himself faithful to all He has promised. Trusting God takes time to develop....little by little.

This is also known as growing IN your faith. There is no difference between the 2 words. They are synonymous.

Faith does NOT require trust.
Without Scriptural evidence that clarifies this supposed difference, there is no reason to believe it.

Faith is believing God because we KNOW. (This happens immediately)
Know what?

Trust is believing God even when we do NOT KNOW. (This takes time)
Not know what?

Please be more specific about knowing and not knowing.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
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Faith IN THE WORKS OF CHRIST for me, NOT faith in any of my works.

Jesus Christ already kept the Law for me even unto death….I simply believe in HIS WORKS for me and praise Him and give Him ALL the glory and love Himwith all my heart, mind body and soul and strength.

The good works I do now that are pleasing in His sight are NOT for salvation but for His Kingdom and for His glory and He rewards us treasures in Heaven that are separate from the GIFT of eternal life. :love:(y)
Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). But those of us who walk in the word of God knows that sometime we have to be chastening by God for correction. Paul says in Hebrew 12: My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

But theres a everlasting punishment for those who refuse to be corrected. Jesus says in Luke 12: 4, 5 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Let’s go into Proverbs 1: 5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; The words of the wise, and their dark sayings. 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction. 22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? And the scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge? 23 Turn you at my reproof: Behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; 25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, And would none of my reproof: 31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, And be filled with their own devices. 32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, And the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

But let's take a look at something Paul says in Romans 15: 4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).
 
J

joecoten

Guest
Fear is often translated reverence, respect. Jesus said that if you love me, you'll obey me.
Scripture says that he who fears is not made perfect in love.
Christ has removed fear, dread, from my relationship with my Father. Discipline, not punishment, is how He deals with me.
The word fear, 500 years ago, does not mean the same thing as it does now. Back then, if a child said that he feared his father, one would think, "Good, he respects his dad." Today if a child says he fears his dad, Child Protective Services may be called. Modern translators chose to stay with the traditional word fear instead of updating the meaning. Which I think is unfortunate.
Though there are a few different uses of the word fear in scripture.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
113
Fear is often translated reverence, respect. Jesus said that if you love me, you'll obey me.
Scripture says that he who fears is not made perfect in love.
Christ has removed fear, dread, from my relationship with my Father. Discipline, not punishment, is how He deals with me.
The word fear, 500 years ago, does not mean the same thing as it does now. Back then, if a child said that he feared his father, one would think, "Good, he respects his dad." Today if a child says he fears his dad, Child Protective Services may be called. Modern translators chose to stay with the traditional word fear instead of updating the meaning. Which I think is unfortunate.
Though there are a few different uses of the word fear in scripture.
We know that perfect love can cast out fear…

I do agree with what you have said and admit I associate obedience with love, like you do.

Some will obey because of fear but, God is NOT looking for fear in us but love for Him.

God is Love; the greatest desire of love is to love and be loved….NOT to be feared.

It’s God’s holiness that causes us to fear and feel unworthy but, if we knew His love and His desire for our love, we would run into His open arms with NO FEAR and we would delight in obeying God because of the security of His Love- whatever He tells us to do will be good for us and others and bring God and us and others GREAT JOY! :love:(y)
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
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Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). But those of us who walk in the word of God knows that sometime we have to be chastening by God for correction. Paul says in Hebrew 12: My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

But theres a everlasting punishment for those who refuse to be corrected. Jesus says in Luke 12: 4, 5 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Let’s go into Proverbs 1: 5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; The words of the wise, and their dark sayings. 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction. 22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? And the scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge? 23 Turn you at my reproof: Behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; 25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, And would none of my reproof: 31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, And be filled with their own devices. 32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, And the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

But let's take a look at something Paul says in Romans 15: 4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).
Tell me about God’s Love for you…:unsure::love:(y)
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
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Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). But those of us who walk in the word of God knows that sometime we have to be chastening by God for correction. Paul says in Hebrew 12: My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

But theres a everlasting punishment for those who refuse to be corrected. Jesus says in Luke 12: 4, 5 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Let’s go into Proverbs 1: 5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; The words of the wise, and their dark sayings. 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction. 22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? And the scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge? 23 Turn you at my reproof: Behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; 25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, And would none of my reproof: 31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, And be filled with their own devices. 32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, And the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

But let's take a look at something Paul says in Romans 15: 4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).
In your post, you stated: "Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.


This is a well asked question. How nice it is, to read a useful post and thought provoking questions. Too often on this chat, posters are throwing around verses and their way of understanding the Scriptures - with not a SINGLE DESIRE to learn anything. Strong convictions are fine but we must always be learning, always questioning and always willing to put what we believe to the test. Only in this way, can we come ever closer to THE TRUTH.

THE Ten Commandments are God's Holy Standard. They demonstrate His perfection and our corruption. They must be kept in "perfection" because He is "perfect". Therefore they are a constant reminder to us, both believers and unbelievers, how far we fall short of His Perfection. Thus, they are indeed Holy, Just (or Righteous), and Good because God is Holy, Righteous and Good.

On a second note - as I see many talking about a final Judgement - hopefully we all understand - as believers - that there are TWO different final judgements.

There is the "Great White Throne" Judgment and the "Bema" of Christ. Believers - will never stand before the "Great White Throne" because it is for the "lost" only. Believers will stand before the "Bema" of Christ. The Great White Throne Judgement is for those going into condemnation (Rev. 20:11) and the Bema of Christ is unto believers, for the purpose of rewards or loss thereof depending on our deeds in the flesh. (Rom. 14:10; 2 Cor. 5:10)

Since Scripture clearly teaches, that there is no more condemnation for those that are in Christ - it would be unfathomable, to think any believer, would stand before the Great White Throne.


 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
897
161
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In your post, you stated: "Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.

(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

This is a well asked question. How nice it is, to read a useful post and thought provoking questions. Too often on this chat, posters are throwing around verses and their way of understanding the Scriptures - with not a SINGLE DESIRE to learn anything. Strong convictions are fine but we must always be learning, always questioning and always willing to put what we believe to the test. Only in this way, can we come ever closer to THE TRUTH.

THE Ten Commandments are God's Holy Standard. They demonstrate His perfection and our corruption. They must be kept in "perfection" because He is "perfect". Therefore they are a constant reminder to us, both believers and unbelievers, how far we fall short of His Perfection. Thus, they are indeed Holy, Just (or Righteous), and Good because God is Holy, Righteous and Good.

On a second note - as I see many talking about a final Judgement - hopefully we all understand - as believers - that there are TWO different final judgements.

There is the "Great White Throne" Judgment and the "Bema" of Christ. Believers - will never stand before the "Great White Throne" because it is for the "lost" only. Believers will stand before the "Bema" of Christ. The Great White Throne Judgement is for those going into condemnation (Rev. 20:11) and the Bema of Christ is unto believers, for the purpose of rewards or loss thereof depending on our deeds in the flesh. (Rom. 14:10; 2 Cor. 5:10)

Since Scripture clearly teaches, that there is no more condemnation for those that are in Christ - it would be unfathomable, to think any believer, would stand before the Great White Throne.

Let's take a look a those Judgements, because when it comes to the lake of fire, which we all want to avoid, we want to do the will of God now. Those who are becoming saint will not stand in the white throne Judgement, as it is written in
"Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). Gather my saints together unto me; Those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. (Psalm 50:5)

Let's see where and when this will take place. Lets go into 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Lets find out who would be raise at this last trumpet. Lets go into 1Thessalonians 4:13-17, 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Let's see what happens next because if I stop right here people will think the Lord took the saints to the third heaven where Jesus is right now. Lets see the saints come down. Lets go into Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Lets read this last part again in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Now for those who are not Saints will have to deal with the Great Whits throng Judgement. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20: 11-15)

Some people believe they need not works for salvation, the book speaks against that.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
I belonged to a church that was named that by it's Greek term for many years.
Thank you for the gospel witness Lafftur.

Check this out and feel free to use it as your own if you wish. The same goes for any of the gospel videos that I will post.
Have a great weekend!