Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

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Dirtman

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Jul 19, 2022
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Why are we always looking for loopholes or rules some kind of way to ignore what Jesus said, what his apostles said and did? Jesus said baptize, his apostles baptized, through out church history from century one the church baptized. Suddenly in the late 1900s and early 2000s we debate baptism.
 

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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I would agree that reciting the phrase during baptisms was acceptable if there were confirming scriptures. But there aren't any records of the disciples ever administering baptism that way.

Notice what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19, He said to baptize in the name of... We know His disciples knew what Jesus meant by how they administered water baptisms.

Also, we know it is because of Jesus' sacrifice that we are to obey the command to be baptized in water. Paul said those who were baptized were buried with Jesus into His death where their sins were destroyed. (Romans 6:3-6) Another comment Paul made concerning the use of Jesus' name in baptism is in Corinthians. He mentioned that people are baptized in the name of the one crucified for them. (1 Cor. 1:13)

I share this information out of love. And believe everyone's eternal life depends upon being obedient to God's word. (John 12:48) And sadly, many have never been shown what Jesus actually said in Matthew 28:19 and the confirming scriptures that back it up. I for one was water baptized in the way promoted by the forerunners of the RCC. However, once the truth was pointed out and I studied the relevant scriptures I chose to obey the God-given command. Since that time, my relationship with the Lord has grown ever stronger.
If what you are saying is true then which of the following is correct?

It should not be in the bible.
Jesus never said that.

Why did Jesus not just say “You are to baptise in my name only?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Why are we always looking for loopholes or rules some kind of way to ignore what Jesus said, what his apostles said and did? Jesus said baptize, his apostles baptized, through out church history from century one the church baptized. Suddenly in the late 1900s and early 2000s we debate baptism.
The debate is not baptism.

The debate is

The words used for baptism.
Whether one needs to be baptised to be saved.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Notice the scripture mentions that those who believe MIGHT have life through His name. This establishes there is an additional condition to receiving life and it comes through His name.

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
That's fanciful. A multitude of Scripture verses predicate eternal life on knowing/being known by and believing in Jesus.


John 17:2-3~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You
have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.

:)

 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
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The debate is not baptism.

The debate is

The words used for baptism.
Whether one needs to be baptised to be saved.
What did Jesus say about it. What did Peter say about the matter? Its that simple.
We need to do what Jesus said because he said to and then believe what he said about the doing of it. It was never disputed in the church until modernity. The only question was should infants be baptized? (Anabaptists) questioning the practice of the church for hundreds of years.
Amazing.
Everyone agrees that the bible is God's word but we dont trust what it says. Is that lack of trust in God? I think so.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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If what you are saying is true then which of the following is correct?

It should not be in the bible.
Jesus never said that.

Why did Jesus not just say “You are to baptise in my name only?
There is no contradiction between what Jesus' stated in Matthew 28:19, and what the disciples did as recorded.

I have no way of knowing for sure why Jesus did not just plainly say it. However, I have come to believe scripture hints at the reason. A couple that come to mind are: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." (Prov 25:2); "Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." (Matt 5:6)

Jesus' statement in Matthew 28:19 is a revelation of who He is. Something the disciples who were closest to Him understood as seen by how they baptized in response to His words.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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There is no contradiction between what Jesus' stated in Matthew 28:19, and what the disciples did as recorded.

I have no way of knowing for sure why Jesus did not just plainly say it. However, I have come to believe scripture hints at the reason. A couple that come to mind are: "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." (Prov 25:2); "Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." (Matt 5:6)

Jesus' statement in Matthew 28:19 is a revelation of who He is. Something the disciples who were closest to Him understood as seen by how they baptized in response to His words.
So you don’t think that they contradict each other?

Jesus says “Father, Son and Holy Spirit” and the Apostles only say “Jesus”
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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That's fanciful. A multitude of Scripture verses predicate eternal life on knowing/being known by and believing in Jesus.


John 17:2-3~ You granted Him authority over all people, so that He may give eternal life to all those You
have given Him. Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.

:)
No it's actually scripture.

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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No it's actually scripture.

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
I know it is Scripture, I posted it :) You simply repeated it. How quickly you forget :oops::rolleyes::oops: You are saying
it suggests something else is required for salvation. That is what is fanciful. You are imagining things.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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So you don’t think that they contradict each other?

Jesus says “Father, Son and Holy Spirit” and the Apostles only say “Jesus”
Upon breaking that scripture down we know Jesus said to baptize IN THE NAME of... Meaning a singular name. Father, Son and Holy Ghost are titles not names. The name to which Jesus referred is His own as witnessed by how the apostles responded to His words. We also know that in Jesus dwells all of the fulness of the Godhead bodily according to Col. 2:9. In addition, consider the words of the prophet Isaiah:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa 9:6
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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What did Jesus say about it. What did Peter say about the matter? Its that simple.
We need to do what Jesus said because he said to and then believe what he said about the doing of it. It was never disputed in the church until modernity. The only question was should infants be baptized? (Anabaptists) questioning the practice of the church for hundreds of years.
Amazing.
Everyone agrees that the bible is God's word but we dont trust what it says. Is that lack of trust in God? I think so.
I agree that the bible must be trusted. However, many are unaware of what the bible actually reveals about water baptism. Many are taught to follow a tradition begun well after the time of the apostles. The following scriptures may be helpful in understanding how to water baptize and its God-given purpose:

Paul instructs the born again Corinthians concerning the relevance of their water baptism in the name of Jesus.
Paul knew baptism was to be in Jesus’ name:
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:13

I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 1 Cor 1:14-16


Acts 2:38-39 (Jewish)
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans-half Jewish-half Gentile)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:43-48 (Gentiles)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
 

Diakonos

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Jan 19, 2019
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Even the fallen ones.
Yes...all angels are "sons of God"...and the spirits of regenerate believers, and Adam, and Jesus.
What do all these have in common for them to share this label: "sons of God"? ...they all come directly from the Father. Among the rest, Jesus is unique because He is uncreated.
 
Jun 28, 2022
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Yes...all angels are "sons of God"...and the spirits of regenerate believers, and Adam, and Jesus.
What do all these have in common for them to share this label: "sons of God"? ...they all come directly from the Father. Among the rest, Jesus is unique because He is uncreated.
Jesus is was God. He was begotten of God. God formed Jesus in Mary's womb.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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And your point is?
Y'all gonna butcher the doctrine of the Trinity now?
Could you please use the quote function, lower right hand corner (REPLY) of post you are quoting?

That is, if you are actually responding to one particular post ;) Then we will know to whom you are speaking :)


I do realize your comments could be directed to the board at large, however, as such, they seem quite discombobulated :unsure:
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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And your point is?
Oops posted the following and afterward saw Magenta provided the same info.
Since you are a new member I thought the following may be useful.

When asking a question about a specific post, click the reply button at the bottom of the post. And type in your question. This way it is known to whom your comment/question is addressed. Hope this helps.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
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Could you please use the quote function, lower right hand corner (REPLY) of post you are quoting?

That is, if you are actually responding to one particular post ;) Then we will know to whom you are speaking :)

I do realize your comments could be directed to the board at large, however, as such, they seem quite discombobulated :unsure:
Those replies are to the statement or statements directly prior. To see who I am replying to, look one post prior. Unless I do use the quotes because I am replying to a post back more than one post prior. But hey if it helps ya. Not problem.
 

Dirtman

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Jul 19, 2022
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I thought the context of the prior posts would be enough but its ok. In order to avoid confusion I will acquiesce.