Bible Vs Scientism

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MichaelBoll

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May 1, 2022
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What what reason is?
We were talking about the REASON for not just simply letting a forward-facing and backwards-facing camera run non-stop during rocket launches and space flights. Why not just let everyone see for themselves the earth getting increasingly smaller while the moon or Mars or the ISS or whatever gets increasingly larger? Continuous and uncut from launch all the way to destination.
 

tourist

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Good stuff, tourist. 👍 Do you also believe that the word "earth" - all throughout the scriptures - refers ONLY to the dry land part on which we live, and that the sea is always something OTHER THAN "the earth"?
Seems to me that 'earth' is referring to the dry land and the sea is the oceans. I could be wrong about the earth though as it may be referring to the actual planet, but I don't believe that this is the case.
 

GaryA

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I believe the Bible is true because of the fulfilled prophecies, not merely "on faith".
What fulfilled prophecies? Where you there? Or, do you also believe those by faith because "it is written" tells you about them...?
 

MichaelBoll

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Seems to me that 'earth' is referring to the dry land and the sea is the oceans. I could be wrong about the earth though as it may be referring to the actual planet, but I don't believe that this is the case.
You are not wrong.

Exodus 20:11… For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them…

Psalm 96:11… Let the heaven rejoice, let the earth be glad; let the sea resound, and all that is in it.

Acts 4:24… “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them…

Revelation 10:6… And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it…

Psalm 146:6… He is the Maker of heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them…

Throughout the Bible, the word "earth" refers only to the dry land on which we live.
 

MichaelBoll

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What is your concept/idea of 1st/2nd/3rd heaven?
I think that over time, men came to understand the air under the firmament as the first heaven, the solid firmament containing the sun, moon and stars as the second heaven, and God's dwelling atop the firmament (ie: Ezekiel 1:26) as the third heaven.
 

MichaelBoll

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Evidence-based faith is what the Bible promotes. On the basis of what God has done, He calls us to believe what we cannot (yet) see. I believe the Bible is true because of the fulfilled prophecies, not merely "on faith".

Your description of scientism is likewise flawed. Science (real science) is based on evidence and experimentation.; faith has nothing to do with it. Fake science encompasses blind faith... believing things outside of science. You erroneously conflate the two.
You basically said what I have been saying throughout this thread, but have posed it as if you are correcting me about something.

Gary has already corrected you on your "fulfilled prophecies" statement. Allow me to correct you on your "conflate the two" assertion...

Dino, is Darwinian evolution "real science" or "fake science"?
 

GaryA

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I think that over time, men came to understand the air under the firmament as the first heaven, the solid firmament containing the sun, moon and stars as the second heaven, and God's dwelling atop the firmament (ie: Ezekiel 1:26) as the third heaven.
How exactly do the sun, moon, and stars move through the solid firmament?

Also, tell me about the "planets" - what are they and where are they?
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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You basically said what I have been saying throughout this thread, but have posed it as if you are correcting me about something.
Well, yes, of course. ;)

Gary has already corrected you on your "fulfilled prophecies" statement. Allow me to correct you on your "conflate the two" assertion...
Gary didn't correct anything.

Dino, is Darwinian evolution "real science" or "fake science"?
It's not science at all.
 

Hippie

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Jul 21, 2022
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Man created time. God works outside of time. His days are like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day. His thoughts and actions are far above ours. Science is a waste of time trying to figure out what and God did and when God did it. God wrote the bible working through man. The bible is complete. God doesn't change. You cannot add or take anything from it.
 

MichaelBoll

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Dino, is Darwinian evolution "real science" or "fake science"?
It's not science at all.
What then do we call the millions of "scientists" who believe it, promote it, teach it, and do their best to convince everyone that it's not up for debate, because it is scientific fact?
 

Dino246

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What then do we call the millions of "scientists" who believe it, promote it, teach it, and do their best to convince everyone that it's not up for debate, because it is scientific fact?
Not my problem. I don't support it, and I don't care for your implication that I do.
 

MichaelBoll

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How exactly do the sun, moon, and stars move through the solid firmament?
I don't know. Are the sun, moon, and stars solid objects? The Bible only calls them lights. Perhaps the firmament is like a cell wall in our bodies... solid enough to keep the right stuff in and out, but also passable.

Also, tell me about the "planets" - what are they and where are they?
Jude 1:13-14... They are... wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them...

Enoch 21:3... There, too, I beheld seven stars of heaven bound in it together, like great mountains, and like a blazing fire. I exclaimed, For what species of crime have they been bound, and why have they been removed to this place? Then Uriel, one of the holy angels who was with me, and who conducted me, answered... These are those of the stars which have transgressed the commandment of the most high God...
 

MichaelBoll

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Gary, we can glean from the Bible that God not only created these lights and set them in the firmament of heaven, but also gave them appointed circuits to run above the earth. These seven stars (Greek: planétés, from which we get "planets") transgressed God's command and decided to run their own circuits. Dire punishment from God awaits them.
 

GaryA

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I don't know. Are the sun, moon, and stars solid objects? The Bible only calls them lights. Perhaps the firmament is like a cell wall in our bodies... solid enough to keep the right stuff in and out, but also passable.


Jude 1:13-14... They are... wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them...

Enoch 21:3... There, too, I beheld seven stars of heaven bound in it together, like great mountains, and like a blazing fire. I exclaimed, For what species of crime have they been bound, and why have they been removed to this place? Then Uriel, one of the holy angels who was with me, and who conducted me, answered... These are those of the stars which have transgressed the commandment of the most high God...
You missed one... :geek:

2 Kings 23:

5 And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.

I am aware of what scripture says. I was asking about your concept/perspective/etc.

So - you see 'planets' as simply "wandering stars" (other stars) in the firmament?
 

GaryA

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Gary, we can glean from the Bible that God not only created these lights and set them in the firmament of heaven, but also gave them appointed circuits to run above the earth. These seven stars (Greek: planétés, from which we get "planets") transgressed God's command and decided to run their own circuits. Dire punishment from God awaits them.
What??? No pluto??? o_O :D

:LOL:
 

MichaelBoll

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May 1, 2022
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Man created time.
God created time for us - beginning with His creation of a "day" (a light/dark cycle on earth).

God works outside of time.[/quote[
Correct. God is not restrained by the passage of time that He created for us.

His days are like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day.
Peter was trying to tell people (who wondered WHY things just keep going on like before when salvation was supposed to be imminent) to be patient. He was reminding them that God is outside of time, and so what might seem like a very long time to us won't seem like that to God. Of course God doesn't experience "days" at all (24 hour days or thousand year days) because, as you've pointed out, God works outside of time. But He created days for us, and knows how WE experience them.

I imagine that, as I write this, God can be "living" the creation of the earth, the flood, the exodus, and the birth of Christ simultaneously.

God bless
 

GaryA

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Gary, we can glean from the Bible that God not only created these lights and set them in the firmament of heaven, but also gave them appointed circuits to run above the earth. These seven stars (Greek: planétés, from which we get "planets") transgressed God's command and decided to run their own circuits. Dire punishment from God awaits them.
Just imagine - if they had never done so - there would be no "planets" upon which such extraordinary misinformation campaigns could be created and promoted...
 

GaryA

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Have you see the high-altitude balloon video with the close sun and the sunspot directly below it?
 

MichaelBoll

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May 1, 2022
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What then do we call the millions of "scientists" who believe it, promote it, teach it, and do their best to convince everyone that it's not up for debate, because it is scientific fact?
Not my problem. I don't support it, and I don't care for your implication that I do.
I have made no such implication - nor would I have reason to considering that you just said you don't consider Darwinian evolution to be science at all.

I have only asked a simple question. If common descent evolution is not science at all (as you rightly point out), then what name do WE give the so-called "evolutionary scientists" who promote this lame-brained idea?

I call them Priests of Scientism, and I call those who believe their unscientific conclusions on blind faith members of the Cult of Scientism.

But what about you? If the "science" they practice isn't science at all, then we can't rightly consider them "scientists", can we? So what then do you call these people who simply parrot the nonsense that their instructors have parroted to them?