And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[kleronomos]

The Adversary AT THE BEGINNING of this age

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?


Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


The END of the Adversary at the END OF THE LORDS DAY

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[Jackson123]

Which verse says Jesus went to hell for 3 days and preached to people there? 🤔

1 Peter 3

19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Because resurrected mortal bodies won't survive the LOF.

which verse says that?

Really? You actually need a verse to prove a universally understood??

How about this. Just light a fire, a big one, and then place your right hand directly into that big fire. Maybe have a number of helpers to help you keep your hand IN the fire. Then, have one of your helpers hold a timer and then time how long it takes for your hand to "cease to exist".

Then, report back here with the results of your experiment.

If you seriously don't think that a mortal physical body CAN survive the fires of the LOF, you are in serious need of help.

The Bible is clear that the beast and FP are STILL in the LOF when the devil JOINS them, 1,000 years AFTER they were thrown in alive.

So, do you seriously think their mortal physical bodies are still there?

 

[FreeGrace2]

You’ll congratulate anyone who even remotely agrees with you even if they quote satanic atheists in doing so.

Psa 14:1 and 53:1 both quote what atheists say about God's existence.

Are you even paying any attention to the discussion?

 

[FreeGrace2]

They (proponents of ECT) reiterate what atheists say as if it were the truth

I must ask, are you paying attention? We note what the atheists say about ceasing to exist, just as you claim. And what they claim is NOT truth.

when it contradicts plain Biblical teachings. What more do we need to know?

Yes, what atheists say about ceasing to exist DOES contradict plain biblical teaching.

You need to know that you say what the atheists say about ceasing to exist.

 

[Runningman]

1 Peter 3

19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

What about it? Where does it say anything about eternal torment?

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
Because resurrected mortal bodies won't survive the LOF.

Really? You actually need a verse to prove a universally understood??

But you’ve been doing the very thing to me when I say something. Yes everything we believe about what the Bible says should have a verse.

How about this. Just light a fire, a big one, and then place your right hand directly into that big fire. Maybe have a number of helpers to help you keep your hand IN the fire. Then, have one of your helpers hold a timer and then time how long it takes for your hand to "cease to exist".

Then, report back here with the results of your experiment.

If you seriously don't think that a mortal physical body CAN survive the fires of the LOF, you are in serious need of help.

That’s a horse laugh. So if my soul is in my body, including my hand, and my hand is burned away, where did the part of my soul that was in my hand go?

The Bible is clear that the beast and FP are STILL in the LOF when the devil JOINS them, 1,000 years AFTER they were thrown in alive.

So, do you seriously think their mortal physical bodies are still there?

It doesn’t say they will be tormented forever until Revelation 20:10 though. Also the KJV says only the devil is tormented forever. Regardless, that’s three people. I don’t see the point of going over that again. Im already convinced there isn’t any eternal torment for all of the unsaved. It’s no where in the Bible so it’s not real.

 

[kleronomos]

Can ANYONE name ONE PLACE it is written that a 'MORTAL PHYSICAL BODY WILL BE RAISED?'

JUST because a 'body', be it natural or spiritual, is 'raised up' imperishable DOESN'T MEAN that that body can't be killed AT THE 2ND DEATH in the lake of fire.

maybe THAT IS WHY we don't fear man who can kill a MORTAL body but we DO FEAR GOD WHO CAN KILL AN IMPERISHABLE BODY, A SPIRITUAL BODY, a body that has RISEN from the SEED that comes from the MORTAL FLESH body that is sown like seed in the dust of the earth. The body that will NEVER RISE UP AGAIN. The body that goes back to the dust of the earth from whence it came.

GOD GIVES A BODY TO THE 'SEED' LEFT from the mortal body. AND He doesn't give the SAME BODY to all seeds. SO an 'immortal imperishable soul', one having believed while they yet lived so they NEVER DIE, a soul in an eternal SPIRITUAL "WHEAT SEED" body NEVER DIES because GOD doesn't KILL THAT SOUL.

An UNSAVED, raised from the dead body MAY BE IMPERISHABLE TO MAN but THEY fear GOD who IS ABLE to kill EVEN an imperishable body with a MORTAL SOUL - mortal soul because NEVER RECEIVED THE WORD AND THE WORD IS ETERNAL LIFE.

That is how a spiritual discerning person reads WHAT IS WRITTEN.

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest,

1. thou sowest not that body that shall be,
2. but bare grain,
3. it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.

so THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH AND THE LAWS, CAN DO ANYTHING even

kill both IMMORTAL BODY AND MORTAL SOUL IN HELL AND SO AT THE 2ND DEATH you can REST ASSURED those who are cast in DIE. When given the choice between life and death, they choose death and DEAD, like smoke that just vanishes into NOTHINGNESS.


1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;

neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[Jackson123]

What about it? Where does it say anything about eternal torment?

How about prove cease to exist

 

[kleronomos]

[QUOTE="kleronomos, post: 4911553, member: 312711"
JUST because a 'body', be it natural or spiritual, is 'raised up' imperishable DOESN'T MEAN that that body can't be killed AT THE 2ND DEATH in the lake of fire.[/QUOTE]



Correction, only a SPIRITUAL body is raised up, not a natural one. Apologies

 

[kleronomos]

Yes, what atheists say about ceasing to exist DOES contradict plain biblical teaching.

NO DOUBT about that. THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY has been up in the words of GOD for a very long time. BUT what atheists say about ceasing to exist MAY CONTRADICT PLAIN BIBLICAL TEACHING

but

IT DOESN'T CONTRADICT WHAT IS WRITTEN

AND SHOULDN'T BE CONTRADICTING

WHAT 'plain biblical teaching' SHOULD BE TEACHING

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes everything we believe about what the Bible says should have a verse.

But you don't understand them. They ALL refer to physical bodies. Which is obvious.

That’s a horse laugh. So if my soul is in my body, including my hand, and my hand is burned away, where did the part of my soul that was in my hand go?

You don't understand where the soul resides then. It resides in your brain, where you think. Unless your thoughts arise from somewhere else. But I wouldn't know that.

It doesn’t say they will be tormented forever until Revelation 20:10 though.

By the time we reach Rev 20:10, the beast and FP have already been IN there for 1,000 years. And the Bibles that THEY will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Couldn't be more clear.

Also the KJV says only the devil is tormented forever.

Reason not to read that version. How many say "they"?

Regardless, that’s three people.

How many would satisfy you?

I don’t see the point of going over that again. Im already convinced there isn’t any eternal torment for all of the unsaved. It’s no where in the Bible so it’s not real.

Keep your head low and eyes closed. That's it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Can ANYONE name ONE PLACE it is written that a 'MORTAL PHYSICAL BODY WILL BE RAISED?'

I don't play these "I demand such and such wording or I won't believe it" games.

I will prove to you that unbelievers will be resurrected. I'm really surprised that you seem not to know that.

Dan 12:2 - Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:29 - and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

JUST because a 'body', be it natural or spiritual, is 'raised up' imperishable DOESN'T MEAN that that body can't be killed AT THE 2ND DEATH in the lake of fire.

My point is that the body WILL BE killed, perish, destroyed, and cease to exist when thrown into the LOF.

An UNSAVED, raised from the dead body MAY BE IMPERISHABLE TO MAN but THEY fear GOD who IS ABLE to kill EVEN an imperishable body with a MORTAL SOUL - mortal soul because NEVER RECEIVED THE WORD AND THE WORD IS ETERNAL LIFE. [/QUTOE]
This doesn't make any sense.

What you do is confuse verses between saved and unsaved. I don't think I can help you.

 

[Runningman]

But you don't understand them. They ALL refer to physical bodies. Which is obvious.


You don't understand where the soul resides then. It resides in your brain, where you think. Unless your thoughts arise from somewhere else. But I wouldn't know that.


By the time we reach Rev 20:10, the beast and FP have already been IN there for 1,000 years. And the Bibles that THEY will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Couldn't be more clear.


Reason not to read that version. How many say "they"?


How many would satisfy you?


Keep your head low and eyes closed. That's it.

No you’re wrong. You’ve had ample chance to see the truth and you aren’t capable of it.

 

[Runningman]

I don't play these "I demand such and such wording or I won't believe it" games.

I will prove to you that unbelievers will be resurrected. I'm really surprised that you seem not to know that.

Dan 12:2 - Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:29 - and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.


My point is that the body WILL BE killed, perish, destroyed, and cease to exist when thrown into the LOF.

Nothing about eternal torment there. You have nothing but false doctrine.

 

[Runningman]

How about prove cease to exist

They’re destroyed forever. The Bible proves it.

 

[Runningman]

So what we have here are the eternal tormentors claiming there is eternal conscious torment for all of the unsaved. Over the span of many pages the utterly failed to prove it, even resorting to quoting/defending atheists to bolster their false claims. I accept this victory. Glory to God and His Son Jesus Christ for their enduring love, righteousness, and mercy. The unsaved are destroyed forever and do not receive eternal life. The saved receive eternal life.

 

[peldom10]

.....................It doesn’t say they will be tormented forever until Revelation 20:10 though. Also the KJV says only the devil is tormented forever. Regardless, that’s three people. I don’t see the point of going over that again. Im already convinced there isn’t any eternal torment for all of the unsaved. It’s no where in the Bible so it’s not real.

You are dead wrong.
You gotta be joking....why? ....what are you achieving?...with that type of question.

Have you read the Bible?

So there is no mistake what are you saying by presenting that question?

 

[Runningman]

You are dead wrong.
You gotta be joking....why? ....what are you achieving?...with that type of question.

Have you read the Bible?

So there is no mistake what are you saying by presenting that question?

I’m right and this isn’t a joke.

The KJV says only the devil is tormented forever. I know other versions/translations say it differently, but the KJV puts Revelation 20:10 like this:

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Have you read the KJV before? KJV stands for King James Version. It’s a version of a book called the Bible.

The subject and predicate agree that only the devil is tormented forever in the KJV.

 

[kleronomos]

You are dead wrong.
You gotta be joking....why? ....what are you achieving?...with that type of question.

Have you read the Bible?

So there is no mistake what are you saying by presenting that question?

What point do you see AS DEAD WRONG? What point do you see as JOKING?

Is it when we believe what is written 'according as his work shall be'

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

AND NOT ETERNAL CONSCIOUS TORMENT for what could only last one generation?


Maybe you see the DEAD WRONG when IT IS WRITTEN
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And we believe 'have their part' means exactly that, 'HAVE THEIR PART'

AND NOT 'THEY SHALL HAVE 'THE DEVILS' PART'?


OR do you see us as being DEAD WRONG when we say WE BELIEVE what is written aka 'the lake of fire' is 'the 2nd death'
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

AND NOT 'ETERNAL CONSCIOUS TORMENT/ECT' as written above?


Is this where you see 'DEAD WRONG'?
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Are we dead wrong because WE BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN 'the former things are passed away'

as opposed to, as 'Eternal Conscious torment IN THE LAKE OF FIRE' The 2ND death, that doesn't pass away?


Are we dead wrong because WE BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN here 'and there shall be NO DEATH'
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

as opposed to what is be sold as 'death and hell and all souls in the eternal LOF, their CONTINOUS TORMENT making SMOKE that goes on forever'?



Are we DEAD WRONG BECAUSE we believe 'they are cast into the lake' as it is written
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

as opposed to cast into the lake, THE 2ND DEATH, 'to be eternally tortured' (because it is written the devil is) though THAT is not written anywhere.


Are we dead wrong because we believe
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


for ever and ever WITH THE DEFINITION OF

165 aión ►
Strong's Concordance
aión: a space of time, an age
Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aión
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn')
Definition: a space of time, an age
Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.


means the same thing as OF THE FORMER THINGS, the past age, a part of life before the new heaven and new earth, not longer in existence.




PLEASE show us the DEAD WRONG parts. Then we can get to more of the verses.


DEAD WRONG.

SOME OF US ARE

LET'S ALL PRAY IT ISN'T THOSE WHO HAVE 'NO MERCY' IN THEIR JUDGMENT.

If we are all to reign with Christ for 1000 years...