Once saved always saved?

[BroTan]

Paul didn't say anything about the possibility of losing salvation. He was talking about confidence. iow, those who believe that salvation can be lost really have NO CONFIDENCE in the Lord. So, HAVE confidence. Those He saves, He keeps.

And Jesus said in the clearest of words that recipients of eternal life, which is received the MOMENT of saving faith, SHALL NEVER PERISH. John 10:28 HAVE confidence is what Jesus said.


You must understand the word of God.

Paul says in (Heb. 6:4-6) (v.4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (v.5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (v.6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You mean that you can be enlightened, be partakers of the Holy Ghost, taste the good word of God and still it’s possible for you to fall away. You had better pay attention to what the Lord inspired Paul to write here. Just as you choose to serve God of you own free will you can by that same free will decide to stop serving God. You are what is called a free agent, the choice is yours. Jesus says in (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Again Paul says in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation.

 

[PennEd]

This is usually the place in these “can you lose your salvation” threads, where I point out that both sides are correct in their beliefs on this issue.

Those that believe they can lose their salvation CAN lose it.

But those of us that KNOW the One who holds it, and He knows us, keeps us from utterly stumbling, and will finish His work of faith in us, will not leave or forsake us, can NEVER lose our salvation! Praise Jesus!


Philippians 1:6
New King James Version

6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete ituntil the day of Jesus Christ;
2 Timothy 1:12

New King James Version

12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, hfor I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

Jude 24
New King James Version

We Glory to God
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling,
And to present you faultless
Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

Hebrews 13:5
New King James Version

5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; becontent with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis.

When those who "are saved Today, under God's Amazing GRACE," ALL their sins
were still yet FUTURE, When Christ PAID The I-n-f-i-n-i-t-e PENALTY

For them ALL, In FULL, By HIS FINISHED BLOOD-Work On The Cross ! ​

You must have missed post #175.
+
"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not
trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered
us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He
will yet deliver us;" (2 Corinthians 1:9-10)

a) "Delivered" (Past tense) is for "The PENALTY" of sin
b) "Doth Deliver" (Present tense) is for "The Power" of sin, "day by day"
c) "Will Yet Deliver" (Future tense) Is From "The Presence" of sin, At
The Great GRACE Departure/resurrection Of The Body Of Christ! Amen?
Thus:

Col_2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and​

the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He Quickened​

Together With Him, Having FORGIVEN you ALL trespasses;​

And, Even More is here:

GRACE And Peace...

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes I think we do have a miss understanding, so let me start from a different point, because Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.[/QUOTE]
Grace was present when God created the universe.

We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

Our differences are not about grace. It's about salvation and eternal security, which is a grace issue.

Grace is the reason for eternal security. No one can earn it (nor lose it) and no one deserves it. That is our difference.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Paul says in (Heb. 6:4-6) (v.4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (v.5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (v.6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You mean that you can be enlightened, be partakers of the Holy Ghost, taste the good word of God and still it’s possible for you to fall away.

Jesus made that clear. When a person believes, they HAVE eternal life (John 5:24). When He gives eternal life, the recipient shall never perish (John 10:28). Eternal security is very clear.

You had better pay attention to what the Lord inspired Paul to write here.

I think YOU had better pay attention to what the Lord SAID to YOU!!!!

Just as you choose to serve God of you own free will you can by that same free will decide to stop serving God.

Yes, that is true. And Jesus made that point in Luke 8:13 with the second soil. They "believed for a while, and then fell away".

You are what is called a free agent, the choice is yours.

But, the ONLY OPTION is whether to be obedient or disobedient. Just as you did NOT take part in getting saved, in the sense of "helping" God, you also CANNOT take part in losing salvation. It isn's yours to receive and give away.

Those who think that way are way confused.

Jesus says in (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Please check the context and tell me what "then end" clearly refers to.

Again Paul says in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation.

you continue to be very confused.

Paul's mention of being "cut off" refers to blessings and service. Not salvation. If it did, then he would have been in DIRECT CONFLICT with what Jesus taught in Joyhn 5:24 and 10:28.

Why can't you just accept those 2 verses on face value. How in the world must you be twisting them out of their obviously clear meaning??

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is usually the place in these “can you lose your salvation” threads, where I point out that both sides are correct in their beliefs on this issue.

Thanks for more confusion.

Those that believe they can lose their salvation CAN lose it.

No, they can't. Or Jesus would have SAID so.

What verse says they can lose their salvation? That's how the Bereans studied.

But those of us that KNOW the One who holds it, and He knows us, keeps us from utterly stumbling, and will finish His work of faith in us, will not leave or forsake us, can NEVER lose our salvation! Praise Jesus!

You just contradicted yourself.

Not having eternal security doesn't mean loss of security. They may FEEL loss of security, but they ARE still in God's hands.

Philippians 1:6
New King James Version

6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete ituntil the day of Jesus Christ;
2 Timothy 1:12

New King James Version
12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, hfor I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

Jude 24
New King James Version
We Glory to God
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling,
And to present you faultless
Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

Hebrews 13:5
New King James Version
5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; becontent with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

Believers can be very poorly taught or simply deceived, but believing salvation can be lost doesn't mean it will be.

It just means the confused/deceived believer is OUT OF STEP with the Lord and the Bible.

 

[Thewatchman]

I am going to stand on Romans 3:23-26
Verse 23:
New Living Translation
For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.
King James Bible
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Verse 24:
New Living Translation
Yet God, in his grace, freely makes us right in his sight. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.
King James Bible
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Verse 25
New Living Translation
For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past,
New King James Version
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Verse 26.
New Living Translation
for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he makes sinners right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
King James Bible
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
If you thank you can get saved and then sin knowingly or unknowling with out them being placed into the book you are wrong. If you do nor repent of them or ask God to forgive you for them they will be written in the book of life and you will have to answer for them. Am I saying that if you get angrey, let a bad word slip, have a bad thought . . . no they are not going to keep you out of heaven. You might loose a little lingth on your robe. If you get to many of them in the book God is the judge not you not me not anybody but God. Why take a chance just ask God when you pray of a morning and of an evening and anyother time you pray to jut ask God to forgive you for anything you may have done that is unpleasing to Him, show you if you have been unpleaing to Him and ak for His help to mke you more aware and to grow in your walk with him.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Again Paul says in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation.

Amen!

Paul proves that even while we are saved, we still exude Free Will. this is so important this portion of Verse 22 [[ if thou continue in his goodness:]]
^

there's no way to argue or debate out of this clear meaning.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

This is usually the place in these “can you lose your salvation” threads, where I point out that both sides are correct in their beliefs on this issue.

Yes, this may be a valid point when considering Two Different Dispensations
in Scriptures without mixing them up. ie:

Secure Or Not Secure? That Is The Question!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[FreeGrace2]

Amen!

Paul proves that even while we are saved, we still exude Free Will. this is so important this portion of Verse 22 [[ if thou continue in his goodness:]]
^

there's no way to argue or debate out of this clear meaning.

It sure can't mean loss of salvation.

Or Jesus' teaching is wrong. Eternal life is POSSESSED when a person believes. Those given eternal life shall never perish.

Those who believe that salvation can be lost and a possessor of eternal life can perish, they are admitting they don't believe what Jesus said.

And, if such people then counter with "but you can lose/give away/forfeit/etc eternal life, please quote any verse actually says this in plain language.

That's the Berean method of Bible study.

Show me the verse.

 

[PennEd]

Thanks for more confusion.


No, they can't. Or Jesus would have SAID so.

What verse says they can lose their salvation? That's how the Bereans studied.


You just contradicted yourself.

Not having eternal security doesn't mean loss of security. They may FEEL loss of security, but they ARE still in God's hands.


Believers can be very poorly taught or simply deceived, but believing salvation can be lost doesn't mean it will be.

It just means the confused/deceived believer is OUT OF STEP with the Lord and the Bible.

Look up. The point I was making is floating above your head somewhere.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Thanks for more confusion.

No, they can't. Or Jesus would have SAID so.

What verse says they can lose their salvation? That's how the Bereans studied.

Look up. The point I was making is floating above your head somewhere.

It seems it is your head that is in the clouds.

So, you can't answer my question then. Because there are no verses that actually SAY salvation can be lost.

otoh, there ARE verses that REFUTE such nonsense.

John 5:24 - WHEN a person believes, they HAVE eternal life.
john 10:28 - recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER NEVER NEVER perish.

Everyone who has a verse that proves that salvation can be lost are simply deceived.

 

[PennEd]

FreeGrace2 said:
Thanks for more confusion.

No, they can't. Or Jesus would have SAID so.

What verse says they can lose their salvation? That's how the Bereans studied.

It seems it is your head that is in the clouds.

So, you can't answer my question then. Because there are no verses that actually SAY salvation can be lost.

otoh, there ARE verses that REFUTE such nonsense.

John 5:24 - WHEN a person believes, they HAVE eternal life.
john 10:28 - recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER NEVER NEVER perish.

Everyone who has a verse that proves that salvation can be lost are simply deceived.

Dude. Have you been reading my posts?

I KNOW you can’t lose your salvation.

My post you seem so upset about was meant to be facetious.

Be blessed brother

 

[FreeGrace2]

Dude. Have you been reading my posts?

Yes.

I KNOW you can’t lose your salvation.

Not from your posts.

My post you seem so upset about was meant to be facetious.

OK, that explains it. It's difficult to communicate sarcasm or facetiousness in print.

Be blessed brother

Thank you. And you too.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

It sure can't mean loss of salvation.

Or Jesus' teaching is wrong. Eternal life is POSSESSED when a person believes. Those given eternal life shall never perish.

Those who believe that salvation can be lost and a possessor of eternal life can perish, they are admitting they don't believe what Jesus said.

And, if such people then counter with "but you can lose/give away/forfeit/etc eternal life, please quote any verse actually says this in plain language.

That's the Berean method of Bible study.

Show me the verse.

Jesus taught Eternal Security is BASED UPON BELIEF in Him!
a person who falls away or becomes apostate no longer Believes. there is NO MORE SECURITY for unbelief/disbelief.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus taught Eternal Security is BASED UPON BELIEF in Him!

Well, of course it is based on belief in Him. What did you think I believed?

a person who falls away or becomes apostate no longer Believes. there is NO MORE SECURITY for unbelief/disbelief.

Au contraire.

In John 5:24 Jesus clearly taught that those who believe HAVE (as in possess) eternal life. OK so far?
The, in John 10:28 Jesus taught clearly that recipients of eternal life (believers) SHALL NEVER PERISH. What's not to understand here?

The claim that "no longer believe, no longer saved". Yet there are NO verses that actually say that. It is a fallacy.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

These 2 verses teach WHO will be condemned (end up in the LOF). Those who "have not believed".

Please answer this: if a person believed in Christ in his youth, but during college fell away from the faith, did he EVER believe?

 

[Alisha86]

Not only Dillahunty, but the evangelist who mentored Billy Graham when he set out to be an evangelist, Charles Templeton. He and Billy roomed together during a European crusade in 1947. He was a world class evangelist.

However, he lost his faith and concluded that the Bible wasn't true and God didn't exist, over a terrible misunderstanding of Genesis 1.

So, what does the Bible say about those who lose faith? This is what Jesus said about losing faith.

Luke 8:13 - Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

So Jesus acknowledges that believers can believe only "for a while", and when testing/temptations occur, "they fall away" (from their faith).

So this establishes that believers can cease to believe, which refutes the Calvinist claim that true believers will persevere in the faith. Not true, as Jesus noted.

So, what happens when a believer falls away from the faith? There are 2 verses that address this issue.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Both verses describe those who "have not believed". It is those who "will be condemned". iow, once a person HAS believed, they shall never be condemned.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

To be condemned is to "be judged". So once a person believes Jesus says they "will not be judged", which is parallel to the 2 previous verses.

One more verse to consider:

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

In this verse, Jesus said very clearly that those given eternal life "shall never perish". And He gave no exceptions to this.

So, once a person has believed in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross for personal sins, that person becomes a permanent child of God, possesses eternal life (John 5:24), has been regenerated (Titus 3:5), is sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13,14). None of these things can be taken away, for any reason.

However, the Bible is also very clear about the consequences for ceasing to believe or leaving the faith. God promises discipline for His children who are rebellious or unfaithful. And the discipline is painful (Heb 12:11), and can include physical death, per 1 Cor 5:5, 11:30, Acts 5, and many other verses.

So, while there is nothing that can result in loss of salvation, every believer must be aware of the warnings about being rebellious or unfaithful to the Lord.

iow, no one will 'get away' with anything. Arminians seem to think that the doctrine of eternal security leads to sinfulness. That may occur when the doctrine of divine discipline isn't taught along side of eternal security.

I think u can lose the holy spirit for good

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Well, of course it is based on belief in Him. What did you think I believed?


Au contraire.

In John 5:24 Jesus clearly taught that those who believe HAVE (as in possess) eternal life. OK so far?
The, in John 10:28 Jesus taught clearly that recipients of eternal life (believers) SHALL NEVER PERISH. What's not to understand here?

The claim that "no longer believe, no longer saved". Yet there are NO verses that actually say that. It is a fallacy.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

These 2 verses teach WHO will be condemned (end up in the LOF). Those who "have not believed".

Please answer this: if a person believed in Christ in his youth, but during college fell away from the faith, did he EVER believe?

if a person falls away and never returns, that person CHOSE to walk away.
God is not going to FORCE that person to have Eternal Security when they don't want it.
STOP ACTING LIKE WE ARE ROBOTS!!!

 

[Magenta]

John 6:37

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Paul says in (Heb. 6:4-6) (v.4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (v.5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (v.6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You mean that you can be enlightened, be partakers of the Holy Ghost, taste the good word of God and still it’s possible for you to fall away. You had better pay attention to what the Lord inspired Paul to write here. Just as you choose to serve God of you own free will you can by that same free will decide to stop serving God. You are what is called a free agent, the choice is yours. Jesus says in (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Again Paul says in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. You had better continue in God’s goodness or you will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation.

My hope is that you would kindly allow me to insert my understanding about this post.

I believe Heb 6:4 has reference to the church and not to eternal heaven. Those that have joined themselves to the church, and had been taught the knowledge of the righteousness of God, and turn away from that knowledge, teaching and preaching some false doctrine, it becomes impossible for the church to accept them back in to fellowship, but they never lose their inheritance of heaven.

Rom 11:22 - Again, This has reference to the Jews. Verse 8, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hearn unto this day. Verse 11, I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid; but rather through their fall salvation (deliverance, here in time) is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy

Verse 14, If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save (deliver) some of them. These deliverances are not referring to eternal deliverances, but to timely deliverances. OSAS.