"She shall be saved through child bearing" (1 Tim 2:15) - meaning of this verse?

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Dear Friends,

What do you think St. Paul the Apostle means to teach in this passage: "Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." (1 Tim 2:15)

1. Is child-bearing a good work, especially because of e.g. the sacrifices and suffering involved in it, that is conducive toward salvation?
2. Finally, if continuing in faith, love and holiness, till the end was not necessary, as some say, why would St. Paul add the latter part?

Thoughts?

God Bless.

 

[Magenta]

if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

 

[Dino246]

Study the religious context in which Timothy ministered (1st century Ephesus), and the whole passage comes to light.

 

[oyster67]

Study the religious context in which Timothy ministered (1st century Ephesus), and the whole passage comes to light.

Please tell more!

 

[Dino246]

Please tell more!

I'll have to hunt down the sources, which looks like a tomorrow task.

In short, there was a lot of paganism and proto-gnosticism, wherein women were taught all sorts of counter-Biblical beliefs. Paul was correcting some of these.

 

[oyster67]

looks like a tomorrow task.

Yup. Good night, Dino.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I don't think 'saved' in this context has anything to do with salvation. Maternal mortality was a serious concern in the 1st century. Women in the Greek world offered sacrifices to female dieties for a safe pregnancy & delivery. To make things worse, there were some strange beliefs about how the womb & the female body functions.

For a pregnant Christian woman, it's comforting to be told that The Lord God will keep you safe during childbirth and
there is no need to sacrifice to Ειλειθυια

 

[studentoftheword]

"Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." (1 Tim 2:15)

The Amp Version answers your question


1 Timothy 2:15 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition



15 Nevertheless [the sentence put upon women of pain in motherhood does not hinder their souls’ salvation, and] they will be saved [eternally] if they continue in faith and love and holiness with self-control, [saved indeed] [a]through the Childbearing or by the birth of the divine Child.

 

[Jocund]

"Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." - 1 Tim 2:15 KJV

I agree with Lucy's assessment here. The passage appears to be about safety during pregnancy rather than eternal salvation. That context comes through in the KJV.

 

[studentoftheword]

The passage appears to be about safety during pregnancy rather than eternal salvation. That context comes through in the KJV.

Well that doesn't make sense cause many women die giving Childbirth and God does not show Favoritism ----so how does that work -----so what you are saying here is God protects and saves some but not others -----so favoritism is being shown in that regard--

And that goes against scripture -----

"Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." (1 Tim 2:15)

Had the word saved here in this scripture if you look it up is Sozo -----which is the whole package of Salvation ---your redeemed --sanctified and justified and healed through Christ


4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin ------rescued from destruction and brought into divine safety").]
aorist of the time when they turned to Christ), as a thing still future,;1 Timothy 2:15;


There is only one Child that was born who can save you from your sin -------

So I think the AMP Bible has it said right ------

But think as you like -----

it is important to research the words in scripture to see how they are used in the piece of Scripture your reading -----

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Dear Friends,

What do you think St. Paul the Apostle means to teach in this passage: "Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." (1 Tim 2:15)

1. Is child-bearing a good work, especially because of e.g. the sacrifices and suffering involved in it, that is conducive toward salvation?
2. Finally, if continuing in faith, love and holiness, till the end was not necessary, as some say, why would St. Paul add the latter part?

Thoughts?

God Bless.

remember oaul was a Pharisee ? They were steeped deep in Jewish law which set a harsh difference in men and women when Adam and Eve ate the fruit they were cursed part of Eves curse was she would now be made subject to her husband he would rule over her it’s a curse resulting of eves transgression

“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul’s argument is coming from there that’s when God said to eve “your bearing children will be painful and now your husband will rule over you “ it’s part of the curse for her transgression nite Luis argument returns there

“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s talking about original sin and the curse that came as a result when eve was placed beneath adams rule

but then there’s this

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It seems like Paul is arguing “ eves sin isn’t atoned for “ and then Applies it to all women but in his later letters he teaches equality and no distinction

If Mary would have kept silent she wouldn’t have been to first person to preach the risen lord

I think Paul was growing in his doctrine and his later letters show it pretty clearly

 

[Jocund]

Well that doesn't make sense cause many women die giving Childbirth and God does not show Favoritism ----so how does that work -----so what you are saying here is God protects and saves some but not others -----so favoritism is being shown in that regard--

And that goes against scripture -----



Had the word saved here in this scripture if you look it up is Sozo -----which is the whole package of Salvation ---your redeemed --sanctified and justified and healed through Christ


4982 sṓzō (from sōs, "safe, rescued") – properly, deliver out of danger and into safety; used principally of God rescuing believers from the penalty and power of sin ------rescued from destruction and brought into divine safety").]
aorist of the time when they turned to Christ), as a thing still future,;1 Timothy 2:15;


There is only one Child that was born who can save you from your sin -------

So I think the AMP Bible has it said right ------

But think as you like -----

it is important to research the words in scripture to see how they are used in the piece of Scripture your reading -----

You aren't looking at AMP, you're looking at AMPC.

AMP agrees with the message about safety during childbirth.

Like Lucy was pointing out, it would be a message to say that you didn't have to seek protection from heathen gods during pregnancy in order to be safe. Ultimately, when God calls your number, your time is up. Of course Christians die during childbirth, but the point is that it isn't the result of not making animal sacrifices to heathen gods, it would be part of God's plan for that person.

 

[studentoftheword]

You can think as you like ---makes no different to me but the words Saved used in the scripture is Sozo and that refers to Salvation by and through Jesus Christ -----

Your Interpretation is your interpretation -----the Greek word says different ------

 

[Runningman]

Dear Friends,

What do you think St. Paul the Apostle means to teach in this passage: "Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." (1 Tim 2:15)

1. Is child-bearing a good work, especially because of e.g. the sacrifices and suffering involved in it, that is conducive toward salvation?
2. Finally, if continuing in faith, love and holiness, till the end was not necessary, as some say, why would St. Paul add the latter part?

Thoughts?

God Bless.

Still working on it, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean they can earn eternal life and absolution of their sins via producing offspring. My intuition is saying that the kind of saving they can have is of a different nature like their physical bodies. Maybe someone else can explain this.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

You can think as you like ---makes no different to me but the words Saved used in the scripture is Sozo and that refers to Salvation by and through Jesus Christ -----

Your Interpretation is your interpretation -----the Greek word says different ------

It's possible to over-analyse word definitions. If I saved a dog from falling over a cliff the word 'save' would apply in both
Greek & English. I 'saved' the dog. I did not give the dog eternal salvation. No one would suggest that I did.

We all know that salvation comes only through faith in Jesus' atonement for us. The salvation that comes from faith
alone covers Eve's sin. That we could attain any part of our salvation through bearing children would be adding a step
to the cross. I therefore don't believe that is what Paul would have been teaching. Context is important.

It would also leave women who are childless with incomplete salvation. A strange interpretation.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It's possible to over-analyse word definitions. If I saved a dog from falling over a cliff the word 'save' would apply in both
Greek & English. I 'saved' the dog. I did not give the dog eternal salvation. No one would suggest that I did.

We all know that salvation comes only through faith in Jesus' atonement for us. The salvation that comes from faith
alone covers Eve's sin. That we could attain any part of our salvation through bearing children would be adding a step
to the cross. I therefore don't believe that is what Paul would have been teaching. Context is important.

It would also leave women who are childless with incomplete salvation. A strange interpretation.

You don't think that the woman is saved from falling into transgression? To be saved from falling into transgression is to receive Eternal Life. This is the context of the Bible. This is the Purpose of Christ.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Thanks, all, for the responses.

Here is how I understand it. As Our Lord said in Luk 14:27: "And if you do not carry your own cross and follow me, you cannot be my disciple." Carrying our own Cross means accepting with love the difficulties and sacrifices of every day life following Christ, for which we will be rewarded in Heaven later on. As it is said in Acts 14:22: “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God" and 1 Cor 3:8 "each [man or woman] will be rewarded according to his own labor".

Thus a Christian Mother who accepts with love the sacrifices involved in bearing and raising a child - and doesn't e.g. commit abortion etc - will be sanctified in doing so, and ultimately rewarded by God for doing so. Similarly, for a woman who wants to conceive, but is unable to, then the cross of childlessness itself that God gives her, and which she then accepts according to His Will, would be pleasing to God and conducive to her salvation.

And similarly, for a man, working hard to provide for his family, being generous, doing good works, evangelizing, martyrdom etc, and the hardships involved in that, as we read in St. Paul's life (who as we know died a Martyr for Christ) are all imo conducive to receiving the Grace of Perseverance and Final Salvation.

In this way, imo, unlike initial justification, which is by Grace through Faith, and without Works, final salvation, does depend on perseverance in both faith and works of love until the end, including carrying crosses/accepting sacrifices.

That I believe is the meaning of the passage and what the Holy Ghost, through Apostle Paul, intends to convey here.

But was interesting to read the responses from all above. God Bless.

 

[studentoftheword]

t's possible to over-analyse word definitions. If I saved a dog from falling over a cliff the word 'save' would apply in both

Greek & English. I 'saved' the dog. I did not give the dog eternal salvation. No one would suggest that I did.

We all know that salvation comes only through faith in Jesus' atonement for us. The salvation that comes from faith
alone covers Eve's sin. That we could attain any part of our salvation through bearing children would be adding a step
to the cross. I therefore don't believe that is what Paul would have been teaching. Context is important.

you said -----
If I saved a dog from falling over a cliff the word 'save' would apply in both
Greek & English. I 'saved' the dog. I did not give the dog eternal salvation. No one would suggest that I did.


LOL ---well that takes the cake !!!!!!!!!!!!--OH my land A Liberality -your equating saving a Dog ----with Jesus who was beaten and flogged beyond recognition --who shed His blood to cover all sin for all time --to save mankind -----

Dictionary meaning English for save
keep safe or rescue (someone or something) from harm or danger.
"she saved a boy from drowning"

Greek word Sozo ----So this greek word used in this scripture is not just saving a dog -as you suggest --sorry to say -----dogs don't sin ---dogs don't need rescuing from Satan ------dogs are an animal not a person ----

Sozo is all about God's people ---saving them from their sins and God's wrath ----and their 2nd death
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's possible to over-analyse word definitions

I say
it is Soooo possible to under analyse God's word and reduce it to the English meaning when it means much more when used in God's word -----your the one who thinks that bearing a child will be enough to save a woman -----well that just goes against ----why Jesus died and went through hell to save us -----

Sozo
to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health --make whole ---. deliver or protect
to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment
to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance

I say
this is the word used in that scripture ---you can't change that ----your watering down the scripture because you want to be right in your interpretation -----

Simplified transliteration:
sozo
to save, rescue, deliver; to heal; by extension: to be in right relationship with God, with the implication that the condition before salvation was one of grave danger or distress


your Quote here -----

We all know that salvation comes only through faith in Jesus' atonement for us. The salvation that comes from faith
alone covers Eve's sin

I say ---your way off base here ------you best go back and re read Genesis 3-----and find out what covered Eve's sin ------her faith was lost when she was deceived ------faith cannot cover sin ---only Blood can cover sin and that is in the old testament and new -----the blood of animals covered sin only for a year

Amplified Bible
21The LORD God made tunics of [animal] skins for Adam and his wife and clothed them

I say --------God would have had to kill the animal and shed blood to make the coverings for them

Hebrews 9
CJB
In fact, according to the Torah, almost everything is purified with blood; indeed, without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.


your quote here ===
That we could attain any part of our salvation through bearing children would be adding a step to the cross.

HO MY LAND !!!!!!---and who do you think you are to assume that childbearing could be added on downplaying Jesus who was beaten =---flogged ---bruised ----punched and shed his blood and was nailed to a cross to bring about Salvation to the world ---and you are saying that childbearing could be an added step to save a person ----

I say --be careful who who listen to FOLKS ----cause that is a scary thought that this person is spouting out here -----I say Run forest run ------stick with Jesus only for salvation not childbearing as an added step -----

Good luck with your adding a step to the cross -------childbearing -can save you --WOW

God says this about adding or subtracting words-- to His word -----and your adding to the cross

 

[Dino246]

Please tell more!

In The Handmaiden's Conspiracy (2018, Defender; Crane, MO), chapter 4, author Donna Howell discusses the pagan religious/cultural context of Ephesus in the first century. She explains that adherents to the cult of Artemis taught that she could create life without the need for a man's involvement. Paul is correcting these false teachings while explaining the truth. She (Howell) asserts that much of the context would have been obvious to Timothy and his congregations, but unknown to modern readers. Verse 15 is saying, in her words, "Christ eventually came to save us all, including the "woman" false teacher, through Mary's giving birth".

That really doesn't do justice to the question, but there are 35 pages of context in the book leading to this statement. I will add that other sources offer slightly different conclusions, but the gist is consistent.

 

[soberxp]

She shall be saved through child bearing" (1 Tim 2:15) - meaning of this verse?

That means God never change, his idea of giving life of her will be done, nothing could stopped her child bearing about giving life.

Do you want pregnant women to bleed heavily, children and adults.........