Speaking in Tongues

[Evmur]

The real question is: What is this "anointing?" Paul wasn't as polished as some of those he referred to as "super-apostles"; but is there any doubt his preaching was anointed? Kenneth Copeland preaches extemporaneously. Are we to believe he's anointed? I've listened to many rock musicians say they become "possessed" onstage. I can hear it already: These are Satan's counterfeits. Well, that goes both ways. How do we know an "anointed" preacher is anointed by the Holy Spirit and not a stream of consciousness conjured from their own mind?

How about something that can't be produced by human effort: Fruit of the Spirit, sound Biblical exegesis, and the like.

Why do you listen to Kenneth Copeland? He is the very example of something which I wish you understood.

He started out in ministry many years ago as a mighty man of God and did a glorious work in Africa [which they still remember him for] But the anointing has been absent in his ministry now for many a long year ... but he goes on, in his own power and strength.

There are a great many American ministers like that, once mighty in God but now scarcely a shadow of what they once were.

If you were a godly man, you would tremble for such men, you would fear that such things are so in the kingdom. You would tread softly knowing that YOU also are frail and may fall from grace.

It's easy to criticise, but these men have been on the front line and many have gotten injured by the enemy of souls.

God does not completely forsake them, if they keep their testimony God will tokenly bless them.

Before I spoke about instances of ministering a gift of tongues or interpretation etc and the need for waiting for God's anointing, if you do not have the anointing it is useless to try to explain it, it is simply the coming upon of the Holy Spirit.

But Kenneth Copeland and others are examples of ministries which start out under the anointing but at some point go off in their own power.

I've explained to you before [but you have no understanding] that the cause of their failure is BAD THEOLOGY.

All these things happen in ALL evangelical churches and denominations ... but when the ministry is miraculous it sticks out like a sore thumb. It is instantly seen. The miracles stop happening. It all soon descends into noise and ballyhoo.

I personally witnessed an American preacher who came over in the 70s with a mighty ministry of healing and deliverance, it was heaven on earth for 2 weeks. But when he came over just 1 year later it was all gone.

People like you sneer and criticise ... you have no idea how much trouble you are in. If you were wise you would pray for them.

 

[DavidTree]

How about we say no tolerance of false doctrine.

Did you read the Post = Gospel of John, Acts, 1 Corinthians

There is no false doctrine contained in these = Wake UP to RIGHTEOUSNESS

"And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed."

 

[DavidTree]

The completed New Testament desires that we did all speak in tongues and earnestly seek the gifts especially that we may prophesy.

It is the completed New Testament we are following.

It is the First and Second Promises of the FATHER which began when HE first spoke of Them in Genesis.

 

[Wansvic]

Rev_1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev_16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev_17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev_17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.


Cant find it any know where it is ... Looking for "millennial kingdom"

The millennial (thousand) reign is mentioned in Rev. 20:

Rev 20:2-5
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

 

[ResidentAlien]

Not so. It is God's word and His indwelling Spirit that sheds light on what is and is not true. Why do you think the enemy fights so hard to make people question what the bible actually reveals happens when a person is indwelt by the Holy Ghost? He knows that once a person actually accepts that God's initial presence in one's body results in their renewed spirit speaking to their Savior in an unknown tongue, he is done. He will have lost those who ask for and receive the Holy Ghost as Jesus states in Luke 11:13. Gone will be the days of manipulating. God will have arrived and His indwelling light will shatter the enemy's darkness into smithereens.

"How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." Ps 119:103-105

Well, it seems you're definitely a true believer; unfortunately what you believe is a lie.

 

[VARob]

Where do people get the idea that the Corinthian church was a model church we should emulate? 1 Corinthians 12-14 are the go-to chapters for tongue talkers to justify their practices. But what do these chapters actually say? They don't say the Corinthian church was a model church. They say how much they got wrong!

Yes, the Corinthian church had a lot of things wrong. In their meetings they were using the gift of tongues improperly. But Paul does not say speaking in tongues itself was wrong:

1 Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Cor 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

I wonder RA... Do you covet to prophesy?

 

[DavidTree]

This is a clear case of looking for in scripture what you want it to say, not what it says. " . . . the multitude came together, and were confounded, because they were hearing each one speaking in his own language."

It doesn't say they were hearing them in their own language, but they heard them speaking their own language. This can't be an early form if interpretation because it's not an example of someone hearing and comprehending a language not their own.

There are other problems: 1) 1 Corinthians 14:39 says, "Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues." The gift of tongues is speaking in tongues; there is no hearing in tongues.; 2) The gift of interpretation is necessary precisely because there is no gift of hearing in tongues. The interpreter hears and understands but his gift isn't hearing in tongues, but interpreting; 3) If there were such a thing as hearing in tongues, every member of a congregation would have to have it; otherwise, only those with the gift could understand. This seems pretty unlikely in light of the fact that spiritual gifts are spread around. No one gift is given to everyone.

Good Morning = Time to Wake UP

i am making coffee soon so you're welcome to stop by

 

[ResidentAlien]

Why do you listen to Kenneth Copeland? He is the very example of something which I wish you understood.

He started out in ministry many years ago as a mighty man of God and did a glorious work in Africa [which they still remember him for] But the anointing has been absent in his ministry now for many a long year ... but he goes on, in his own power and strength.

There are a great many American ministers like that, once mighty in God but now scarcely a shadow of what they once were.

If you were a godly man, you would tremble for such men, you would fear that such things are so in the kingdom. You would tread softly knowing that YOU also are frail and may fall from grace.

It's easy to criticise, but these men have been on the front line and many have gotten injured by the enemy of souls.

God does not completely forsake them, if they keep their testimony God will tokenly bless them.

Before I spoke about instances of ministering a gift of tongues or interpretation etc and the need for waiting for God's anointing, if you do not have the anointing it is useless to try to explain it, it is simply the coming upon of the Holy Spirit.

But Kenneth Copeland and others are examples of ministries which start out under the anointing but at some point go off in their own power.

I've explained to you before [but you have no understanding] that the cause of their failure is BAD THEOLOGY.

All these things happen in ALL evangelical churches and denominations ... but when the ministry is miraculous it sticks out like a sore thumb. It is instantly seen. The miracles stop happening. It all soon descends into noise and ballyhoo.

I personally witnessed an American preacher who came over in the 70s with a mighty ministry of healing and deliverance, it was heaven on earth for 2 weeks. But when he came over just 1 year later it was all gone.

People like you sneer and criticise ... you have no idea how much trouble you are in. If you were wise you would pray for them.

Thanks for your input.

 

[ResidentAlien]

OK - Now you are on the Straight Path

I'm so glad you think so. I feel much better now.

 

[DavidTree]

Not so. It is God's word and His indwelling Spirit that sheds light on what is and is not true. Why do you think the enemy fights so hard to make people question what the bible actually reveals happens when a person is indwelt by the Holy Ghost? He knows that once a person actually accepts that God's initial presence in one's body results in their renewed spirit speaking to their Savior in an unknown tongue, he is done. He will have lost those who ask for and receive the Holy Ghost as Jesus states in Luke 11:13. Gone will be the days of manipulating. God will have arrived and His indwelling light will shatter the enemy's darkness into smithereens.

"How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." Ps 119:103-105

This is why the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is so aggressively attacked by John McArthur, Baptists and the infamous 'Doctors of Divinity'.

 

[DavidTree]

I'm so glad you think so. I feel much better now.

Do i sense mockery here, and that of the Holy Scriptures no less............

Not becoming of a Saint on this most Important Topic

 

[ResidentAlien]

Did you read the Post = Gospel of John, Acts, 1 Corinthians

Is that something you posted? Honestly, I avoid your posts, unless you address me.

 

[DavidTree]

Honestly, I avoid your posts, unless you address me.

Yes you do because you cannot speak against them but with mockery.

You have stagnated your own development and growth in the Lord by closing your heart and mind to truth.

Many Brothers & Sisters in Christ reaching out to you.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Yes you do because you cannot speak against them but with mockery.

Yeah, that's it.

 

[DavidTree]

Where do people get the idea that the Corinthian church was a model church we should emulate? 1 Corinthians 12-14 are the go-to chapters for tongue talkers to justify their practices. But what do these chapters actually say? They don't say the Corinthian church was a model church. They say how much they got wrong!

The Instructions and Commandments from the LORD Jesus Christ that are contained in 1 Corinthians are the Go 2 Model.

 

[DavidTree]

Yeah, that's it.

Case proven

 

[Evmur]

Thanks for your input.

The prime example of what I am saying is Alexander Dowie

 

[DavidTree]

It is the immature that do not walk in His fullness and gifting.
Jesus did not receive multiple "gifting's", the gift of Holy Spirit He received from John the Baptist and imparted to the 12, they to the 70, and beyond to today is the one "gift" all the others spring from.

the LORD Jesus never received the Holy Spirit from John the Baptist nor from any person on earth

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I provided scripture that addresses those questions. And since you are unable to see what they convey I suggest you seek the answers directly from God through prayer. We know that He withholds nothing from those who approach Him with a humble heart.

Absolutely classic. You decided to write all of this nonsense instead of just answering the questions. Useless.

 

[Wansvic]

Personally: When the message in tongues is being spoken, typically I'll sense a "burden" to give interpretation, and be "aware of" (not really "hear") a few words in English which I understand (by experience) to be the beginning of the "interpretation". When the tongues speaker has finished, then I'll speak the few words I have, knowing that more words will follow, until the "interpretation" is finished. Then the flow of words will stop, and I'll shut up, and sit down. Mentally, I contribute NOTHING, and simply speak the words I'm given. It's the same with prophetic utterance, except there's no "Tongues" as a lead-off.

Note: The "Interpretation" isn't necessarily a "Translation" of the spoken tongues. I've come to the conclusion that the "Tongue" is sometimes only a "Trumpet sound" to prime the congregation for the message to come by interpretation. On the other hand (unless all our pastors, and missionaries are bald-faced liars), there are instances where the "Tongue" will be understood by persons in the audience in their own language, including cases where a gifted interpretation is spoken that matches what the one understanding heard. There are also cases where something spoken in the "common language" is heard and understood in one or more different languages in the audience. God, after all isn't a "One trick pony"

I recall once in Marion Ohio at a FGBMFI meeting, there was a message in a tongue, and immediately the fallow on my immediate left stood and began to interpret, but immediately, I was also burdened to interpret, and got a few words. then the fellow on my left stopped speaking, and I immediately got up and spoke the words I had, for another 30-40 seconds, then I ran out of words, and the fellow om my immediate Right stood, and continued the interpretation from where I left off, and finished it. (A "hat trick" as it were). That's never happened again.

Thank you so very much for providing everyone with such a detailed answer. What you've stated provides confirmation of the revelation I believe I recently received on the topic.

Something I found very interesting in your response was your comment concerning the trumpet. Years ago I began speaking in tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost. And since that time have prayed in tongues. However, I was only used by God in the spiritual gift of tongues one time. And what happened could in a way equate to the sounding of a trumpet. After reading your post and thinking back, I must say that the experience was quite a shock to my senses and my own ears. The words that began to flow from deep inside me were exceptionally loud and slowly leveled out to a normal volume. Sometime after the church service I asked God what caused the overwhelming feeling I experienced. His response, to my amazement was, "I consumed the sacrifice." I knew in my spirit that it meant that I was a willing vessel that He used to fulfill His purpose(s) that particular day.