Clyburn "US will Repeat Nazi Germany if Republicans Get Power

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Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,689
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#61
Absurd analogy.

Jews were innocent and slaughtered.

Babies ARE innocent and slaughtered.

They babies are forced against their will to be torn apart and discarded, or sold for parts.
Well yeah but the Holocaust happened because Hitler convinced Germany that the Jews were evil and 2,000 years of Catholic propaganda against the Jews didn't help either
He was trying to eradicate an entire race of people so no it's not the same thing
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,689
1,103
113
#62
Yeah. I'm thinking you been here long enough to know, if you stop peeking in, you stop getting notifications, unless someone grabs your absurd posts and responds.
Well for the people who want to blame our government for what Islam did to us on 9/11, go over there and live with them if you think your government hates you that bad. I promise you'll want to come back
I imagine they would chop my head off as soon as I get off the plane
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,793
6,747
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#63
I’ll have the conversation with you. I don’t know enough to dispute what you share but I ask, what would be the reason for our government to destroy the towers?
It was the reason they passed the Patriot act which allows the US government to surveil Americans and it was the reason we went to War with Iraq even though they had nothing to do with it and everyone agrees with that. We put our military into Afghanistan and guess what we took control of pipelines from Turkmenistan with some of the biggest natural gas fields in the world. We also put our military in Iraq which has the biggest reserves of oil second only to Saudi Arabia.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,793
6,747
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#64
Major flaw in saying they are the only three steel buildings that collapsed due to fire. Two obvious issues. One was the damage inflicted from the impacts. And two was that these buildings were the first buildings of this size that had the internal structure supported by the outer walls. They were essentially square tubes with everything hung on the inside of the tube. It may be the only way buildings the size of the twin towers could be built as the shear weight of the steel would have been to great for conventional steel framed building. So you cannot compare them to any other steel building.
Building 7 was not hit by any airplane.

We have seen some horrific 24 hour fires of large steel framed skyscrapers without them ever collapsing.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,793
6,747
113
#65
How do I turn off notifications for this thread? I'm not interested in tin foil hat conspiracy theories
Go to the top and it should say "unwatch". You can do that for all threads.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,793
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#66
911 truthers disgust me. They are attempting to let Islam off the hook for what they did to us on 9/11.
Relax, the US went and bombed Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years,
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,689
1,103
113
#67
Relax, the US went and bombed Iraq and Afghanistan for 20 years,
At the risk of being redundant as long as there are countries who are living in the 14th century with access to 21st century weapons, America will always have a presence in Middle Eastern countries. Some call it imperialism, I call it self-defense
But if you think your government is that bad, go over there and live with them and see how Christians are treated over there.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,793
6,747
113
#68
Major flaw in saying they are the only three steel buildings that collapsed due to fire. Two obvious issues. One was the damage inflicted from the impacts. And two was that these buildings were the first buildings of this size that had the internal structure supported by the outer walls. They were essentially square tubes with everything hung on the inside of the tube. It may be the only way buildings the size of the twin towers could be built as the shear weight of the steel would have been to great for conventional steel framed building. So you cannot compare them to any other steel building.
The reason steel frame buildings don't collapse is because you have to get to about 2,200 degrees F for steel to melt. Jet fuel burns at around 500 degrees F. However, if you had a perfect air fuel mixture and put the tip of the flame directly under the steel you might be able to get it to 1500 degrees F which in turn might cause steel to soften up enough, under the weight and deform and give way.

Here is the problem, we saw black smoke coming out of the tower, that means the fire was starved for oxygen, so it didn't get to 1500 degrees. Second, the building collapsed straight down which means every single support had to collapse at the same time. No one would expect that, we would expect the tower to bow in like a can being crushed, tip over and fall.

Third problem, we could have easily confirmed this if the investigators had been able to see the steel, but the military put it under lock and key and guarded it, preventing the investigators from seeing it and then shipped it off to China to be melted down destroying evidence.

Fourth problem, the US has a fantastic facility that can replicate a fire in a 3 story building. They could have replicated the fire from the airplane to see if it would have caused the steel to be deformed. We use this facility all the time to determine exactly what happened in a fire. However, they never tested their theory of the jet fuel causing the steel to break. That is the biggest insult to the 3,000 people who died, their death was even worth doing a real investigation.

Fifth problem, the fire at the world Trade center continued for 99 days. It is the longest fire in history. I was in NYC, the Fire Department was hosing the fire down for 3 months before it finally went out. They measured the temperature and it was well over 3,000 degrees, closer to 4,000 degrees F. That is not paper, that is not jet fuel, that is thermite.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,793
6,747
113
#69
At the risk of being redundant as long as there are countries who are living in the 14th century with access to 21st century weapons, America will always have a presence in Middle Eastern countries. Some call it imperialism, I call it self-defense
But if you think your government is that bad, go over there and live with them and see how Christians are treated over there.
I have two friends who were very high up in the US government at the time of 9/11. I asked them about it and they gave me a MIT study which according to them "explained it". The study was quite technical so I don't blame them for not understanding it. However, the study said the same thing I am saying now, just a little more diplomatically. They said it was highly unlikely that the official narrative is true, but if it were true this is how it might be true.

It was a joke. This is what someone who gets their funding from the US government, doesn't want to offend them, and was told to "explain how this happened a certain way" and so did what they were told even though at the same time they were signaling to other scientists this is not their theory nor would it be.

The only people who don't want the truth about what happened on 9/11 are the ones who hate this country and despise the people in it. If you care about the US you want the truth, you want a thorough and comprehensive investigation, you want to go after the real bad guys. The same is true with JFK assassination.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,689
1,103
113
#70
I have two friends who were very high up in the US government at the time of 9/11. I asked them about it and they gave me a MIT study which according to them "explained it". The study was quite technical so I don't blame them for not understanding it. However, the study said the same thing I am saying now, just a little more diplomatically. They said it was highly unlikely that the official narrative is true, but if it were true this is how it might be true.

It was a joke. This is what someone who gets their funding from the US government, doesn't want to offend them, and was told to "explain how this happened a certain way" and so did what they were told even though at the same time they were signaling to other scientists this is not their theory nor would it be.

The only people who don't want the truth about what happened on 9/11 are the ones who hate this country and despise the people in it. If you care about the US you want the truth, you want a thorough and comprehensive investigation, you want to go after the real bad guys. The same is true with JFK assassination.
That's rich saying we had our country but you're blaming our own government for murdering 3,000 americans.
That makes zero sense.
I'm going to say it again, if you think our government is that bad go over there and live with them and see how Christians are treated over there
 

Handyman62

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2021
602
267
63
Rural South Carolina
#71
The reason steel frame buildings don't collapse is because you have to get to about 2,200 degrees F for steel to melt. Jet fuel burns at around 500 degrees F. However, if you had a perfect air fuel mixture and put the tip of the flame directly under the steel you might be able to get it to 1500 degrees F which in turn might cause steel to soften up enough, under the weight and deform and give way.

Here is the problem, we saw black smoke coming out of the tower, that means the fire was starved for oxygen, so it didn't get to 1500 degrees. Second, the building collapsed straight down which means every single support had to collapse at the same time. No one would expect that, we would expect the tower to bow in like a can being crushed, tip over and fall.

Third problem, we could have easily confirmed this if the investigators had been able to see the steel, but the military put it under lock and key and guarded it, preventing the investigators from seeing it and then shipped it off to China to be melted down destroying evidence.

Fourth problem, the US has a fantastic facility that can replicate a fire in a 3 story building. They could have replicated the fire from the airplane to see if it would have caused the steel to be deformed. We use this facility all the time to determine exactly what happened in a fire. However, they never tested their theory of the jet fuel causing the steel to break. That is the biggest insult to the 3,000 people who died, their death was even worth doing a real investigation.

Fifth problem, the fire at the world Trade center continued for 99 days. It is the longest fire in history. I was in NYC, the Fire Department was hosing the fire down for 3 months before it finally went out. They measured the temperature and it was well over 3,000 degrees, closer to 4,000 degrees F. That is not paper, that is not jet fuel, that is thermite.
More problems with your statements. Jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning. There was people, wood, paper, plastic, rubber and more. All of it in an enclosed area. And steel doesn't have to reach melting point to become pliable. I know this because I have played around with metal working and in my experience metal can be bent or distorted with far less heat then you would think.
And yes some steel is more resistant to heat then others, but just because somebody tells you the building was made of heat resistant steel doesn't make it so as it's very possible the steel used was not what was called for in the plans.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,793
6,747
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#72
That's rich saying we had our country but you're blaming our own government for murdering 3,000 americans.
That makes zero sense.
I'm going to say it again, if you think our government is that bad go over there and live with them and see how Christians are treated over there
No, you are saying that. I'm not. I don't believe the few people involved represent me or the other 350 million people. That is why the push a lie. Just like I don't believe our government assassinated JFK.

What I do believe is the people who did the deed had the ability to cover it up afterwards.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,689
1,103
113
#73
No, you are saying that. I'm not. I don't believe the few people involved represent me or the other 350 million people. That is why the push a lie. Just like I don't believe our government assassinated JFK.

What I do believe is the people who did the deed had the ability to cover it up afterwards.
No your claim that people who reject your tin foil hat conspiracy theories hate america.
I'm a patriot who loves my country and don't want it to go the way of europe, teachers getting their heads chopped off over drawing cartoons
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,793
6,747
113
#74
More problems with your statements. Jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning. There was people, wood, paper, plastic, rubber and more. All of it in an enclosed area. And steel doesn't have to reach melting point to become pliable. I know this because I have played around with metal working and in my experience metal can be bent or distorted with far less heat then you would think.
And yes some steel is more resistant to heat then others, but just because somebody tells you the building was made of heat resistant steel doesn't make it so as it's very possible the steel used was not what was called for in the plans.
OK, you have played around with metal (aluminum, iron, copper?) and it becomes soft and a lower temperature than melting temperature. In your experience wouldn't you expect the first joints to become soft to start to give way, deform and then the building would lean? This was a huge building and they even will admit the center of the building was a major structural support, and the airplane crashed and slid into one side of the building, to one side of that center column that housed all the elevators and it is a large block of elevators and stairways. So then why did the entire thing collapse at the same time? I would think that side of the building would deform first.

Secondly, you keep ignoring building 7. Do you realize that three buildings collapsed but only two were hit by airplanes?

Third, let's say for whatever reason the joists were weakened by the fire and so collapsed onto the floor below. Wouldn't that floor slow the descent? Wouldn't each floor act as a speed bump to the descent? Why is it that once the collapse happened the building fell at virtually the speed of free fall?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,793
6,747
113
#75
No your claim that people who reject your tin foil hat conspiracy theories hate america.
I'm a patriot who loves my country and don't want it to go the way of europe, teachers getting their heads chopped off over drawing cartoons
I did not say that. As usual you put words in my mouth that I never said and do not believe. What I said is if you love America you would want to know who killed the 3,000 people on 9/11 at the WTC. You would want a thorough and complete investigation. We don't want to accuse Iraqis of something they had nothing to do with and go steal their oil, if you do that you justify their hating America. If that was your uncle, or your son, or daughter or spouse killed, you want to know who did it and you want to hold them accountable.

I said the only people who wouldn't want that would be people who hate our country.

You don't have to accept my theory.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,793
6,747
113
#76
No your claim that people who reject your tin foil hat conspiracy theories hate america.
Nope. I don't care about my "theory", I care about the truth. The story we have been given is false. Easily provable as false.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,689
1,103
113
#77
I did not say that. As usual you put words in my mouth that I never said and do not believe. What I said is if you love America you would want to know who killed the 3,000 people on 9/11 at the WTC. You would want a thorough and complete investigation. We don't want to accuse Iraqis of something they had nothing to do with and go steal their oil, if you do that you justify their hating America. If that was your uncle, or your son, or daughter or spouse killed, you want to know who did it and you want to hold them accountable.

I said the only people who wouldn't want that would be people who hate our country.

You don't have to accept my theory.
We can keep doing this for Infinity if you want.
I know who killed all those Americans on 9/11. Muslims flew planes into buildings
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,793
6,747
113
#78
We can keep doing this for Infinity if you want.
I know who killed all those Americans on 9/11. Muslims flew planes into buildings
well then of course you have no objection to a full scale investigation that would confirm what you already know to be true.
 

Handyman62

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2021
602
267
63
Rural South Carolina
#79
OK, you have played around with metal (aluminum, iron, copper?) and it becomes soft and a lower temperature than melting temperature. In your experience wouldn't you expect the first joints to become soft to start to give way, deform and then the building would lean? This was a huge building and they even will admit the center of the building was a major structural support, and the airplane crashed and slid into one side of the building, to one side of that center column that housed all the elevators and it is a large block of elevators and stairways. So then why did the entire thing collapse at the same time? I would think that side of the building would deform first.

Secondly, you keep ignoring building 7. Do you realize that three buildings collapsed but only two were hit by airplanes?

Third, let's say for whatever reason the joists were weakened by the fire and so collapsed onto the floor below. Wouldn't that floor slow the descent? Wouldn't each floor act as a speed bump to the descent? Why is it that once the collapse happened the building fell at virtually the speed of free fall?
The building was mainly supported by the exterior, but if you removed any part of the interior I'm sure it would be weaken the structure some, but the main structural member was still the exterior.
And I'm not ignoring building three. It was damaged by falling debris from twin tower collapse. What are the chanches that a building would be able to stand for long after thousands of tons of steel and fiery debris fell on top of it?
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,689
1,103
113
#80
well then of course you have no objection to a full scale investigation that would confirm what you already know to be true.
It's been investigated and every one of your theories has been debunked