Conclusion From Beware the Pseudo-Rapture Doctrine 4

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Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
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Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#1
Sunday 12-18-22 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Kislev 23, 5783 86th. Fall Day

Origin of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine


The escapist belief of the “rapture” has been employed by Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Jerry Falwell, Hal Lindsy, and Tim LaHaye in his series of novels built around the subject. Its supporters have lied, twisted, distorted, and misrepresented the true origin of this fatal belief.



The rapture belief entered the Plymouth Brethren through John Nelson Darby, their most influential prophecy teacher. Its origin traces back to 1830 when a certain Margaret McDonald had a “vision” of the end-times. She had been ill and bed-ridden for a year and a half. She read Matthew 24:40 about someone being “taken”, and then read in Thess.2:7 about a “restraining” influence being “taken out of the way.” She put the two passages together and reasoned that the “one” taken out of the way, before the rising of the Antichrist, must be the church! Darby and others subsequently took up this belief, and he popularized it in the Scofield Reference Bible, from where it has entered mainstream Protestantism like a “thief in the night,” catching millions unawares.



Margaret’s “revelation” has led a charmed life. She began “speaking in tongues” several months after her initial revelation, which supports the conclusion that her source of “inspiration” was not the Spirit of God. God is not the Author of confusion, or phony “tongues” (I Cor.14:33; see my article on “The Truth about Tongues”).



For a thorough study of the origin of the pre-Tribulation rapture theory, read The Rapture Plot by Dave MacPherson (Millennium III Publishers, Simpsonville, South Carolina, 1995).



“Taken”


But what about this passage in Matthew 12:40 about two women, one being “taken” and one being “left”? What does it mean?



We read, “But AS the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and did not know till the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken [that is, killed, as the flood “took them all away,” in Noah’s day], and the other left [alive]. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken [die] and the other left [alive]. WATCH therefore, for you do NOT KNOW what HOUR your Lord is coming” (Matt.24:37-42).



Notice that it was the “Flood” that “took them all away.” The masses died as a result of the Flood! They were not “taken” to heaven to be spared! Likewise, Yeshua is telling us, when He comes, and when the Tribulation is about to begin, one person will die in the melee, and invasion, and one will be left alive. That is the import of His statement here. Those “taken” and who die are those who have not been alert, watchful, and vigilant, observing the “signs of the times.” Those who are left alive are those who will be more heedful, watchful, and prudent (see Proverbs 14:26 again).



On the other hand, what about the passage in II Thess.2:6-7? Paul tells us, “And you know what is restraining him, so that he may be revealed when his time comes. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work but only until the one who now restrains it is removed.” What is restraining the arising of this key end-time figure? In the ultimate sense, of course, it is God Himself and His Spirit, His influence on the earth. God is holding it back until His time comes for the final revelation He is holding it back, I suggest, to give His people time to prepare themselves, to grow spiritually strong, to overcome and get ready.



The one “taken out of the way” to prepare for the rising up of the Antichrist is not specifically identified in II Thessalonians 2:7. However, it would appear that this could also refer to a person or nation which stands in the way of the arrival of this supreme Dictator – one who must depart the political scene before the “Beast” can take his place in full power. This restraining power could well be the United States and President George Bush! When the power of the United States is diminished due to onerous debt and over-extending its reach, the resultant world configuration will be free to elect a man over the United Nations – the end-time “Beast” – who will fulfill the prophecies of the Antichrist!



In other words, the passage Matthew 24:40 does not mention a “rapture” at all. The ones who are “taken” are going to be KILLED – their lives “taken,” as occurred in the Flood. The ones who are “left” are left ALIVE – as survivors – during the coming Great Tribulation and Holocaust that are fast approaching.



Are You Prepared?


Yeshua warned: “But about that day or hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Beware, keep alert; for you do not know when the time will come. It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his slaves in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch. Therefore, keep awake – for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or at dawn, or else me may find you asleep when he comes suddenly. And what I say to you I say to all: Keep awake” (Mark 13:32-37).



What about you? Are you watching and keeping alert? Are you preparing for the Wedding Feast of the Lamb? Are you praying day and night for God’s mercy and protection and deliverance from the frightful days to come, and to stand worthy before the Son of Man?

By William F. Dankenbring

Love, Walter and Debbie
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#2
In other words, the passage Matthew 24:40 does not mention a “rapture” at all. The ones who are “taken” are going to be KILLED – their lives “taken,” as occurred in the Flood. The ones who are “left” are left ALIVE – as survivors
[Pre-tribber here :) ]

Matthew 24:40 INDEED refers to His Second Coming to the earth point in time... I'm always pointing out such in my posts = ) ...

The ones "taken" are "taken away in judgment" (just as in Noah's day); the ones "left" are left to enter the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom [in their mortal bodies--capable of reproducing / bearing children] (just as in Noah's day; Compare: "fill the earth / filled the whole earth"--Dan2:35 / Gen9:1 / Matt24:40 / Lk17:26,27,29 [see vv.27,29 "and destroyed [G622] them ALL"--that is, ALL the unbelievers are "destroyed" at that point... this occurs at His Second Coming to the earth (not at the time of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]")]).

So, Pre-tribbers actually AGREE on this point (re: Matt24:40, etc). = ) (sure there are mis-informed pre-tribbers who've been taught poorly and thus explain the passage incorrectly, can't argue about that. lol)

The context of Matthew 24 & 25 is about what leads up to and occurs at His Second Coming to the earth (not "our Rapture"--that's NOWHERE to be found in His Olivet Discourse--it wasn't His Subject there... Instead, He was ANSWERING their Question [v.3] which was a question BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50, which is about when the "angels" will REAP... i.e. at His Second Coming to the earth time-slot)




Margaret’s “revelation” has led a charmed life. She began “speaking in tongues” several months after her initial revelation, which supports the conclusion that her source of “inspiration” was not the Spirit of God. God is not the Author of confusion, or phony “tongues” (I Cor.14:33; see my article on “The Truth about Tongues”).

For a thorough study of the origin of the pre-Tribulation rapture theory, read The Rapture Plot by Dave MacPherson (Millennium III Publishers, Simpsonville, South Carolina, 1995).
It's too bad that the writer of that book LEFT OUT two paragraphs / sentences proving that M. MacDonald's "dream [so called vision]" was describing a POST-trib rapture event. I've posted the linked article showing this fact, in past posts, which one can find at this site (CC) by doing a simple Search.

The idea or suggestion that her supposed vision was describing "PRE-trib rapture" has been long debunked.

Check it out. = )
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#3
Sunday 12-18-22 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Kislev 23, 5783 86th. Fall Day

Origin of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine


The escapist belief of the “rapture” has been employed by Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Jerry Falwell, Hal Lindsy, and Tim LaHaye in his series of novels built around the subject. Its supporters have lied, twisted, distorted, and misrepresented the true origin of this fatal belief.



The rapture belief entered the Plymouth Brethren through John Nelson Darby, their most influential prophecy teacher. Its origin traces back to 1830 when a certain Margaret McDonald had a “vision” of the end-times. She had been ill and bed-ridden for a year and a half. She read Matthew 24:40 about someone being “taken”, and then read in Thess.2:7 about a “restraining” influence being “taken out of the way.” She put the two passages together and reasoned that the “one” taken out of the way, before the rising of the Antichrist, must be the church! Darby and others subsequently took up this belief, and he popularized it in the Scofield Reference Bible, from where it has entered mainstream Protestantism like a “thief in the night,” catching millions unawares.



Margaret’s “revelation” has led a charmed life. She began “speaking in tongues” several months after her initial revelation, which supports the conclusion that her source of “inspiration” was not the Spirit of God. God is not the Author of confusion, or phony “tongues” (I Cor.14:33; see my article on “The Truth about Tongues”).



For a thorough study of the origin of the pre-Tribulation rapture theory, read The Rapture Plot by Dave MacPherson (Millennium III Publishers, Simpsonville, South Carolina, 1995).



“Taken”


But what about this passage in Matthew 12:40 about two women, one being “taken” and one being “left”? What does it mean?



We read, “But AS the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and did not know till the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken [that is, killed, as the flood “took them all away,” in Noah’s day], and the other left [alive]. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken [die] and the other left [alive]. WATCH therefore, for you do NOT KNOW what HOUR your Lord is coming” (Matt.24:37-42).



Notice that it was the “Flood” that “took them all away.” The masses died as a result of the Flood! They were not “taken” to heaven to be spared! Likewise, Yeshua is telling us, when He comes, and when the Tribulation is about to begin, one person will die in the melee, and invasion, and one will be left alive. That is the import of His statement here. Those “taken” and who die are those who have not been alert, watchful, and vigilant, observing the “signs of the times.” Those who are left alive are those who will be more heedful, watchful, and prudent (see Proverbs 14:26 again).



On the other hand, what about the passage in II Thess.2:6-7? Paul tells us, “And you know what is restraining him, so that he may be revealed when his time comes. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work but only until the one who now restrains it is removed.” What is restraining the arising of this key end-time figure? In the ultimate sense, of course, it is God Himself and His Spirit, His influence on the earth. God is holding it back until His time comes for the final revelation He is holding it back, I suggest, to give His people time to prepare themselves, to grow spiritually strong, to overcome and get ready.



The one “taken out of the way” to prepare for the rising up of the Antichrist is not specifically identified in II Thessalonians 2:7. However, it would appear that this could also refer to a person or nation which stands in the way of the arrival of this supreme Dictator – one who must depart the political scene before the “Beast” can take his place in full power. This restraining power could well be the United States and President George Bush! When the power of the United States is diminished due to onerous debt and over-extending its reach, the resultant world configuration will be free to elect a man over the United Nations – the end-time “Beast” – who will fulfill the prophecies of the Antichrist!



In other words, the passage Matthew 24:40 does not mention a “rapture” at all. The ones who are “taken” are going to be KILLED – their lives “taken,” as occurred in the Flood. The ones who are “left” are left ALIVE – as survivors – during the coming Great Tribulation and Holocaust that are fast approaching.



Are You Prepared?


Yeshua warned: “But about that day or hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Beware, keep alert; for you do not know when the time will come. It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his slaves in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch. Therefore, keep awake – for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or at dawn, or else me may find you asleep when he comes suddenly. And what I say to you I say to all: Keep awake” (Mark 13:32-37).



What about you? Are you watching and keeping alert? Are you preparing for the Wedding Feast of the Lamb? Are you praying day and night for God’s mercy and protection and deliverance from the frightful days to come, and to stand worthy before the Son of Man?

By William F. Dankenbring

Love, Walter and Debbie
Im really having a hard time with this foolishness.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,783
624
113
#4
"The rapture belief entered the Plymouth Brethren through John Nelson Darby, their most influential prophecy teacher. Its origin traces back to 1830 when a certain Margaret McDonald had a “vision” of the end-times. "

Hi.. how much did you search on this? I only share what I know. I went searching many years ago and found a hymn writer and was also a preacher. Yeah you could see the scrolls and read them. I was looking years ago wanted to know if some wrote about it. HAHA I was not happy since this hymn writer wrote this in 400ad. Then some time later I was watching what Grant Jeffrey on TBN yeah many years ago. He had a show and he showed those scrolls and the writing. Showing Christ coming before the great tribulation. He said it was 300-400ad. Then over the years they (not Grant) found even more.

Some seem to get upset and they ask me to prove it. Yet I did what you would think anyone can do I searched. Oh it was not easy. I couldn't just google it. Now this is NOT about the preachers its about pre-trib. Even Perry Stone has talk about this very thing and talked about the year 1600? Yeah missed that also it seems. Now me I look at all this and what does it prove? Nothing other then it was talked about preached ever since Christ left. One thing I notice is how those that believe in caught up (Rapture) before the great tribulation really get made fun of more then any other.

Thanks but its not worth getting into since forgive me no offense you didn't study this enough. Now for me Christ saying He was going back to make us a place and would come back get us/take us/receive us unto Himself so where He is we will be. He said again where I go you know. So where is He? Yes with the Father so unless Christ lied which He can not we will be with Him where He is. Then Paul told them no you didn't miss Him.. voice, shout, trump and dead rise and.....Yeah this next part Paul never said "they or them" Paul said and "we which remain". So who is we? So no one knows when only it will happen. I don't know if someone is not watching does not believe if they would go. I would think not since He will not go against mans will. Like a prophet who's home now once said when asked "I am post.....but if Christ comes pre I am ready now". That is wise since per mid post are not written. Just watch be ready now.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,783
624
113
#5
Side note.. I tried to edit but.. it said 5min passed yet.. not even 2min. This needs fixing
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#6
The escapist belief of the “rapture” has been employed by Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Jerry Falwell, Hal Lindsy, and Tim LaHaye in his series of novels built around the subject. Its supporters have lied, twisted, distorted, and misrepresented the true origin of this fatal belief.
This is more BALONEY. Read your Bible and see where the doctrine of the Rapture originated.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#8
The idea or suggestion that her supposed vision was describing "PRE-trib rapture" has been long debunked.
So has everything been debunked about this nonsense tracing the Pre-Tribulation Rapture to the 19th century, then dumping on everyone who believes that it is Bible truth.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,431
6,707
113
#9
"Doctrine of the rapture?" Not in the Word.

The saints who are yet in the flesh shall be taken up to meet our Lord just after those who sleep in the hope of the Lord, at the final trump. Taken up by angels.

Daniel foretells there will be those of understanding to help others during the Great Tribulation, however this may not be enough for escapists.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
545
113
India
#10
Dear Friends, always read commentaries from 200 years ago or earlier, from Bible Scholars, Theologians etc, to see how the Christians of those generations understood these passages. Imo, 1 Thess 4 clearly shows the Rapture is Post-Resurrection, and thus Post-Trib also, for it says we shall not be caught up into the Air unless the dead in Christ rise first. Further, it says this will happen with a Loud Trumpet, and thus is not a "Secret" Rapture.

See how clear it is? But here is some commentary on Mat 24:40 from Bible Hub. Recall the Lord said, at the Second Coming, He will send His Angels, to gather His elect. That's what it is talking about imho. Let me quote the scholars: am on my phone now and will give the link later if asked. Commentary:

"The one shall be taken.--Literally, the present tense being used to express the certainty of the future, one is taken, and one is left. The form of the expression is somewhat obscure, and leaves it uncertain which of the two alternatives is the portion of the chosen ones. Is the man who is "taken" received into fellowship with Christ, while the other is abandoned? or is he carried away as by the storm of judgment, while the other is set free? On the whole, the use of the Greek word in other passages (as, e.g., in Matthew 1:20; Matthew 1:24; Matthew 12:45; John 1:11; John 14:3) is in favour of the former interpretation. What is taught in any case is that the day of judgment will be, as by an inevitable law, a day of separation, according to the diversity of character which may exist in the midst of the closest fellowship in outward life.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 40. - The Lord gives two examples of the suddenness of his advent, and its effect in private life. Shall two be in the field. They shall be working together at their ordinary agricultural occupations, with nothing outwardly to distinguish one from the other, good and bad being mingled together. The one shall be taken (παραλαμβανεται is taken, the present implying certainty), and the other left (ἀφίεται, is deft). Christ speaks as though he saw the scene before him. The "taking" implies separation from companions, as Matthew 17:1; Matthew 18:16, etc. This is the work of the angels (ver. 31). There is some doubt as to the destiny of the two classes named. Are the good "taken" and the evil "left"? or are the evil "taken" and the good "left"? Some suppose that the terms allude to the sudden approach of a hostile army by which some are taken prisioners and others allowed to escape; or, since in the parable the tares are first gathered for the burning, those taken must be the wicked, those left are for storing in the everlasting garner. On the other hand, many commentators understand the verbs in a sense opposite to that mentioned above. As (ver. 31) the angels are sent forth to gather the elect, the "taken" are of this class, who are caught away to meet the Lord and his saints (1 Thessalonians 4:17; John 14:3), while the others are left for judgment and reprobation (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9). Bengel, continuing the reference to the Flood, writes, "Assumitur in tutelam (ver. 31), ut Noachus cum domo sua; sinitur in periculis, quicquid obveniat, ut homines in diluvio." The latter interpretation of the two seems to be the correct one. At any rate, it is plain that the nicest discrimination is exercised, and that among men and women, in all conditions of life, a final severance shall then be made, which shall apportion their lot in the other world."
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#11
Dear Friends, always read commentaries from 200 years ago or earlier, from Bible Scholars, Theologians etc, to see how the Christians of those generations understood these passages. Imo, 1 Thess 4 clearly shows the Rapture is Post-Resurrection, and thus Post-Trib also, for it says we shall not be caught up into the Air unless the dead in Christ rise first. Further, it says this will happen with a Loud Trumpet, and thus is not a "Secret" Rapture.

See how clear it is? But here is some commentary on Mat 24:40 from Bible Hub. Recall the Lord said, at the Second Coming, He will send His Angels, to gather His elect. That's what it is talking about imho. Let me quote the scholars: am on my phone now and will give the link later if asked. Commentary:

"The one shall be taken.--Literally, the present tense being used to express the certainty of the future, one is taken, and one is left. The form of the expression is somewhat obscure, and leaves it uncertain which of the two alternatives is the portion of the chosen ones. Is the man who is "taken" received into fellowship with Christ, while the other is abandoned? or is he carried away as by the storm of judgment, while the other is set free? On the whole, the use of the Greek word in other passages (as, e.g., in Matthew 1:20; Matthew 1:24; Matthew 12:45; John 1:11; John 14:3) is in favour of the former interpretation. What is taught in any case is that the day of judgment will be, as by an inevitable law, a day of separation, according to the diversity of character which may exist in the midst of the closest fellowship in outward life.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 40. - The Lord gives two examples of the suddenness of his advent, and its effect in private life. Shall two be in the field. They shall be working together at their ordinary agricultural occupations, with nothing outwardly to distinguish one from the other, good and bad being mingled together. The one shall be taken (παραλαμβανεται is taken, the present implying certainty), and the other left (ἀφίεται, is deft). Christ speaks as though he saw the scene before him. The "taking" implies separation from companions, as Matthew 17:1; Matthew 18:16, etc. This is the work of the angels (ver. 31). There is some doubt as to the destiny of the two classes named. Are the good "taken" and the evil "left"? or are the evil "taken" and the good "left"? Some suppose that the terms allude to the sudden approach of a hostile army by which some are taken prisioners and others allowed to escape; or, since in the parable the tares are first gathered for the burning, those taken must be the wicked, those left are for storing in the everlasting garner. On the other hand, many commentators understand the verbs in a sense opposite to that mentioned above. As (ver. 31) the angels are sent forth to gather the elect, the "taken" are of this class, who are caught away to meet the Lord and his saints (1 Thessalonians 4:17; John 14:3), while the others are left for judgment and reprobation (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9). Bengel, continuing the reference to the Flood, writes, "Assumitur in tutelam (ver. 31), ut Noachus cum domo sua; sinitur in periculis, quicquid obveniat, ut homines in diluvio." The latter interpretation of the two seems to be the correct one. At any rate, it is plain that the nicest discrimination is exercised, and that among men and women, in all conditions of life, a final severance shall then be made, which shall apportion their lot in the other world."
I see it like that, too. Matthew 24:36-40 seems to say that the ones taken are those who were taken by the flood and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. Those who are left are actually those who are saved. In any case, they're together up until the final moments in what appears to be a Day of the Lord event which seems to occur simultaneously with the return of the Son of Man. In a sense, Jesus is the Ark that saves the world of saved people from the flood.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
545
113
India
#12
Yes, RM.

Link I mentioned earlier: https://biblehub.com/1_timothy/2-4.htm

Rapture is Post Trib. 1 Thess 4 says that. Dead in Christ first. Then Rapture. So Rapture is Post-Resurrection. Thus Post-Tribulation also.

1 Thess 4: The Rapture and the Resurrection.
4:15 For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment and with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ shall rise first.
4:16 Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air: and so shall we be always with the Lord.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#13
My stand is this....and yes I have changed my stand.
From what I have gathered from scripture the tribulation brings on the rapture.
I used to be pre trib but if this is called mid trib so be it. Cause and effect.

The tribulation causes chaos in the world. These are GODs warning signs to the nations.
Instead of repenting and turning to GOD the nations look for one man with the answers to this chaos.
This man is found (anti christ) he brings a new world order, false peace, one religion. Ect.

The wrath of GOD is not found untill the 5th or 6th chapter of revelation. (Dont have my bible handy)

Paul has siad clearly.....we are not appointed to wrath.
Paul also siad ....pray that you are counted worthy to escape the wrath which is to come.

According to my study and under standing of the ten virgins parable not all the church will be taken.
All were servants but only half were filled with the Holy Spirit. (Oil) which is used to light the laterns. (Commission )
Jesus said to believe and follow my commandments..... James siad.... to be doers and not just hearers deceiving your selves. I believe the deception is all i have to do is believe and not do.
Jesus said we are the lights that should not hid under baskets but shine.

Also the promise to anticipate this sudden event is crucial. The promise from the groom to the bride.
A bride remans a bride untill wed. A groom remains a groom till wed.
We are to be found in CHRIST....as adam siad....this is bone of my bone...flesh of my flesh.

To be continued...
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,179
5,727
113
#14
Sunday 12-18-22 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Kislev 23, 5783 86th. Fall Day

Origin of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine


The escapist belief of the “rapture” has been employed by Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Jerry Falwell, Hal Lindsy, and Tim LaHaye in his series of novels built around the subject. Its supporters have lied, twisted, distorted, and misrepresented the true origin of this fatal belief.



The rapture belief entered the Plymouth Brethren through John Nelson Darby, their most influential prophecy teacher. Its origin traces back to 1830 when a certain Margaret McDonald had a “vision” of the end-times. She had been ill and bed-ridden for a year and a half. She read Matthew 24:40 about someone being “taken”, and then read in Thess.2:7 about a “restraining” influence being “taken out of the way.” She put the two passages together and reasoned that the “one” taken out of the way, before the rising of the Antichrist, must be the church! Darby and others subsequently took up this belief, and he popularized it in the Scofield Reference Bible, from where it has entered mainstream Protestantism like a “thief in the night,” catching millions unawares.



Margaret’s “revelation” has led a charmed life. She began “speaking in tongues” several months after her initial revelation, which supports the conclusion that her source of “inspiration” was not the Spirit of God. God is not the Author of confusion, or phony “tongues” (I Cor.14:33; see my article on “The Truth about Tongues”).



For a thorough study of the origin of the pre-Tribulation rapture theory, read The Rapture Plot by Dave MacPherson (Millennium III Publishers, Simpsonville, South Carolina, 1995).



“Taken”


But what about this passage in Matthew 12:40 about two women, one being “taken” and one being “left”? What does it mean?



We read, “But AS the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and did not know till the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken [that is, killed, as the flood “took them all away,” in Noah’s day], and the other left [alive]. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken [die] and the other left [alive]. WATCH therefore, for you do NOT KNOW what HOUR your Lord is coming” (Matt.24:37-42).



Notice that it was the “Flood” that “took them all away.” The masses died as a result of the Flood! They were not “taken” to heaven to be spared! Likewise, Yeshua is telling us, when He comes, and when the Tribulation is about to begin, one person will die in the melee, and invasion, and one will be left alive. That is the import of His statement here. Those “taken” and who die are those who have not been alert, watchful, and vigilant, observing the “signs of the times.” Those who are left alive are those who will be more heedful, watchful, and prudent (see Proverbs 14:26 again).



On the other hand, what about the passage in II Thess.2:6-7? Paul tells us, “And you know what is restraining him, so that he may be revealed when his time comes. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work but only until the one who now restrains it is removed.” What is restraining the arising of this key end-time figure? In the ultimate sense, of course, it is God Himself and His Spirit, His influence on the earth. God is holding it back until His time comes for the final revelation He is holding it back, I suggest, to give His people time to prepare themselves, to grow spiritually strong, to overcome and get ready.



The one “taken out of the way” to prepare for the rising up of the Antichrist is not specifically identified in II Thessalonians 2:7. However, it would appear that this could also refer to a person or nation which stands in the way of the arrival of this supreme Dictator – one who must depart the political scene before the “Beast” can take his place in full power. This restraining power could well be the United States and President George Bush! When the power of the United States is diminished due to onerous debt and over-extending its reach, the resultant world configuration will be free to elect a man over the United Nations – the end-time “Beast” – who will fulfill the prophecies of the Antichrist!



In other words, the passage Matthew 24:40 does not mention a “rapture” at all. The ones who are “taken” are going to be KILLED – their lives “taken,” as occurred in the Flood. The ones who are “left” are left ALIVE – as survivors – during the coming Great Tribulation and Holocaust that are fast approaching.



Are You Prepared?


Yeshua warned: “But about that day or hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Beware, keep alert; for you do not know when the time will come. It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his slaves in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch. Therefore, keep awake – for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or at dawn, or else me may find you asleep when he comes suddenly. And what I say to you I say to all: Keep awake” (Mark 13:32-37).



What about you? Are you watching and keeping alert? Are you preparing for the Wedding Feast of the Lamb? Are you praying day and night for God’s mercy and protection and deliverance from the frightful days to come, and to stand worthy before the Son of Man?

By William F. Dankenbring

Love, Walter and Debbie
great read as usual thanks for sharing guys God bless

“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:24-27‬ ‭
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#15
This is more BALONEY. Read your Bible and see where the doctrine of the Rapture originated.
The rapture is spoken about in I Thessalonians 4, but it sets it at the coming of the Lord, not seven years before the coming of the Lord.
 
Nov 26, 2021
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#17
great read as usual thanks for sharing guys God bless

“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:24-27‬ ‭
Great Verse! There's the Rapture. Christ gathers His Elect at the Second Coming after the Tribulation.
 
Nov 26, 2021
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#18

Here's a preacher who says "that the Lord told him about the false doctrine of Pre Tribulation Rapture and the Lord also told him about the coming persecution and martyrdom"

A comment in the link:

"I've always felt and believed we would go through the tribulation. All God's disciples were martyred except John. Jesus was killed. Presently people in third world countries are being martyred now. I think we are so arrogant to think we would not have to go through anything, especially martyrdom. People need to wake up ."

It's time for Christians to be well prepared, whatever trials and tribulation may possibly lie ahead of us, including martyrdom.

And we also should Evangelize well in the meantime, before the Tribulation comes. The more we do that now, the easier it will be then.

There's no doubt the Tribulation will be fierce, a terrible persecution. But it will last only 3.5 to 7 years. And with God's Grace, we must courageously withstand it, including by being ready to die.

Here's Revelation 13 on Tribulation Saints:

9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.
10 “If anyone is to go into captivity,
into captivity they will go.
If anyone is to be killed with the sword,
with the sword they will be killed.”
This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,179
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#19
Great Verse! There's the Rapture. Christ gathers His Elect at the Second Coming after the Tribulation.
Yep this same day

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-18‬ ‭

after the dead rise those still alive on earth will be caught up to meet them all with Jesus in the air saved this same day
From this

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When Jesus returns to gather his still living elect together with the others before then it’s going to be a single event that ends this creation and ushers in the new

Those still alive that sudden moment will experience this

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:

for the trumpet shall sound,

and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,

and we shall be changed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:51-52‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Same order of events the trumpet , Jesus appearing , the dead being raised and those left alive being translated and caught up together with the lord at the gathering of his kingdom after this world ends and the tribulation of this world is burned up

truthfully we’re all living in our last generation even a thousand years ago those alive then , had only thier short lifetime to be saved from the end of this creation
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,164
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#20
Do you realize how ABSURD that would be?????
Do you mean how absurde the pre-trib rapture theory would be, which takes a passage about the rapture and resurrection occuring at the coming of the Lord, and occurs that it occurs seven years before the coming of the Lord, and takes verses set 'after the tribulation' in Matthew 24, and applies them to a time before the tribulation?