Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[VARob]

God saves us when we say yes.

we will not say yes UNTIL we trust him though

IOW, faith is required. Saying "yes" to the gospel is having faith in the gospel.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

IOW, faith is required. Saying "yes" to the gospel is having faith in the gospel.

You do not understand the conversation. But thank you

 

[VARob]

Lol.. Faith is the means by which we RECIEVE grace.

but it is grace that we are saved.

Faith is not a work. He is saying faith is a work. That is wrong. Hence in his defenition of faith, it is not required.

I agree that faith is not works. But we must have faith.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

 

[VARob]

You do not understand the conversation. But thank you

lol.. It's always nice to get a brush-off.

 

[Runningman]

You have not studied

Paul said we can not boast of grace. So its not something we can earn.

he also said if it is of grace it is NOT of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

so no matter how you spin it. Works cancels grace/

No that’s not it.

look up the word grace. The word “unmerited” doesn’t exist in the definition. Grace means favor with the ability to make mistakes and not be punished, but there’s the expectation the one with grace will make effort to stay in those good graces.

That’s exactly why Paul said we shouldn’t use grace to sin because being sinful can make someone fall from grace, and not inherit the kingdom of God. Read Romans 6 and Galatians 5.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

lol.. It's always nice to get a brush-off.

Brush off?

dude you walked into the middle of the conversation. And you do not understand what we were saying

Cut the pride. What is wrong with you people??

he said faith is a work to earn salvation. IN THAT CONTeXT FAITH IS NOT REQUIRED.

You CANT EARN SALVATION BY FAITH!!

no I will accept your apology. Or you can go away! I am sick of children’s games and people who think they know it all

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No that’s not it.

look up the word grace. The word “unmerited” doesn’t exist in the definition. Grace means favor with the ability to make mistakes and not be punished, but there’s the expectation the one with grace will make effort to stay in those good graces.

That’s exactly why Paul said we shouldn’t use grace to sin because being sinful can make someone fall from grace, and not inherit the kingdom of God. Read Romans 6 and Galatians 5.

Grace is a gift. You CANt EARN A gIFT

thats why it is grace or works.

it does not matter, your trying to earn salvation by works. By defenition, YOU REJECT GRACE

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

God is sovereign yes. Jesus said no one can come to him unless God calls them. And if all those Jesus shall lose none. Therein Jesus refutes any claim we can lose Jesus and his saving grace.

God justifies. Only through his Holy Spirit renewing the mind that is first dead in sin because it is of the carnal human nature, seeing flesh and its appetites as paramount, can such a one regenerated through God's will then come to the understanding of those things of God they first thought of as foolishness.

Look at the net and the memes that mock our faith for an example of those natural minded folk .

Would Richard Dawkins bend his knee to the truth of the gospel? Even though he refers to himself as a secular Christian?

Did Christopher Hitchens? No . Both he and Mr. Dawkins have published many works calling the faith foolishness and irrational magical thinking.
Only God can intercede to change those, any, natural mind that thinks in the same way as they. As God tells us.

Are we not to take the Father at his word?

Then we have the testimony of Lee Strobel. He was an atheist and his wife became born again. He was angry that she would fall for such foolishness and set out to prove to her that she was wrong. In his searching he came to the Lord. Today he is a pastor and has written several books on apologetics. The work of the Holy Spirit is to draw us to Christ. Still we have free will to walk away.

 

[Runningman]

lol.. It's always nice to get a brush-off.

You understand what he said perfectly. I didn’t see that he stuttered. He said faith is not required without offering any further explanation. Doesn’t that seem pretty conclusive? I mean, if no additional info was offered then that’s probably plainly his point.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I'm not going to regurgitate the whole conversation now and get into another back-and-forth with you.
Suffice it to say, that is NOT at all what I nor you said. I'll just leave it at that.

Quote "So the verses I quoted you're just ripping out of the Bible?" That is what I said. Follow back to the quote.

 

[VARob]

he said faith is a work to earn salvation. IN THAT CONTeXT FAITH IS NOT REQUIRED.

The context is wrong. Faith is not a work, but faith is required.

no I will accept your apology. Or you can go away! I am sick of children’s games and people who think they know it all

Bless you too, bro.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Then we have the testimony of Lee Strobel. He was an atheist and his wife became born again. He was angry that she would fall for such foolishness and set out to prove to her that she was wrong. In his searching he came to the Lord. Today he is a pastor and has written several books on apologetics. The work of the Holy Spirit is to draw us to Christ. Still we have free will to walk away.

Yes, people leave the faith. That's people's choice. However, Jesus said of all that the Father gives him he shall lose none.

Jesus doesn't choose to walk away from us. Not even those who think they can leave their Father.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Agree, that's why I said I don't believe it.

You argue it when you insist repeatedly that Jesus died to save all.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

You argue it when you insist repeatedly that Jesus died to save all.

No, I state what the Bible states. Very clearly it says Christ died for all. That does not mean all will be saved. It doesn't mean all will accept Him.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Where does the Bible say god is a respector of persons? The spirit convicts the world. Kinda hard to convince the world if they are unable to understand

I realize you wish to ignore God's telling us we only understand his gospel after his Holy Spirit intercedes and changes our natural carnal mind toward understanding the things of God.

2 Corinthians 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Romans 8:29-30For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

And that assists in understanding your perspective. Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

Romans 8:7For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

John 16: 7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[ButterflyJones]

No, I state what the Bible states. Very clearly it says Christ died for all. That does not mean all will be saved. It doesn't mean all will accept Him.

Jesus died for all that the Father gives him.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Jesus died for all that the Father gives him.

“That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.” – 1 Timothy 4:10


“He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” – 1 John 2:2



“But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!” – Romans 5:15

 

[Runningman]

Grace is a gift. You CANt EARN A gIFT

thats why it is grace or works.

it does not matter, your trying to earn salvation by works. By defenition, YOU REJECT GRACE

Who said anything about earning gifts. Doing your duty isn’t attempting to earn anything. You work for free. Anything given to you is simply a gift.

 

[ButterflyJones]

“That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.” – 1 Timothy 4:10


“He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” – 1 John 2:2



“But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!” – Romans 5:15

To the many. Not to all.

1 Timothy 4:10 is often used by Universalists.
If God wants to save everyone in what way is He especially saving those who believe?

 

[Mem]

I think the New Testament teachings indicate that isn't possible.

The natural carnally minded person,as we all are when born and maturing into this world and as Paul said is unable to trust God. Because the things of God are foolishness to the natural carnal minded person.

Which makes sense because that state of mind and ego is reminiscent of Lucifer's state of mind when he imagined his idea of Lordship over creation was superior to that of God. Which is why he had led his fellow angels who saw God the same way as he in a war against God.

So no, your observation is not sustained by God's teaching.

I'm behind 10 pages since I last posted but I'm pretty sure no one has moved from their opinion of what Scripture teaches, but it isn't at all unproductive. If nothing else, this provides insight into why others believe so differently.

You've extrapolated 1 Corinthians 2:14 as you've understood it and why you are confident it is not my interpretation.
"14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

However, v. 6 leads into the discussion with, "Among the mature, however...7we speak of the mysterious and hidden wisdom of God...12We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us..."

There is nothing here that specifically indicate that we receive the Spirit who is from God before we believe, but only that once we receive the Spirit who is from God, we are able to understand the mysterious and hidden wisdom of God by receiving the Spirit who is from God.