Saddleback Church Ousted from Southern Baptist Convention Over Female Pastor
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God calls whom he will to minister his word.
I think it evident when Paul stated we are all one in Christ Jesus, as he proved when he did not discriminate against women serving in ministry in the churches he founded, as prophetesses, or walking with him as what we today call missionaries, when gender discrimination does enter into a church today that it is not because of Paul's example. Or teaching.
Paul would fail to be consistent in his teachings if he stated we are all one in Christ if someone then insists Paul said women cannot teach in church or have authority because they are women.
The idea that is precisely what Paul taught is not only false but cannot be a falsehood defended as his truth using the argument that women are inferior due to their sex.
Not when women are the God ordained gateway by which new life enters this world. And certainly not when by one man sin entered the world because that man followed his woman's example, while abandoning God's teaching and command.
I think it evident when Paul stated we are all one in Christ Jesus, as he proved when he did not discriminate against women serving in ministry in the churches he founded, as prophetesses, or walking with him as what we today call missionaries, when gender discrimination does enter into a church today that it is not because of Paul's example. Or teaching.
Paul would fail to be consistent in his teachings if he stated we are all one in Christ if someone then insists Paul said women cannot teach in church or have authority because they are women.
The idea that is precisely what Paul taught is not only false but cannot be a falsehood defended as his truth using the argument that women are inferior due to their sex.
Not when women are the God ordained gateway by which new life enters this world. And certainly not when by one man sin entered the world because that man followed his woman's example, while abandoning God's teaching and command.
The idea isn't that women are inferior in Christ. Is Christ inferior to the Father. No. But His role did require Him to take a subservient position.
Those who believe women cannot serve because they are of less value in the body of Christ are clearly wrong. Those that view it as a matter of hierarchy aren't denigrating the value of women. They believe they have a biblical basis.
You may not agree with their conclusions but their motivation isn't necessarily bad.
Those who believe women cannot serve because they are of less value in the body of Christ are clearly wrong. Those that view it as a matter of hierarchy aren't denigrating the value of women. They believe they have a biblical basis.
You may not agree with their conclusions but their motivation isn't necessarily bad.
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That statement has to be carefully scrutinized. The ministry of the Word is given to those who have received one of these spiritual gifts: apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, or teacher. Elders within a church would have these gifts, and God has spelled out the qualification of elders in detail. And God has limited these spiritual gifts to men (males) for a very specific reason.
Elders are not deacons, and deacons are not elders. And in the New Testament churches, there was always a plurality of elders called "the presbytery" in Scripture (not just one man trying to be the shepherd for a whole church). No women were allowed to be elders or deacons. This is also why Christian women are commanded (a) to cover their heads during worship and (b) remain silent during worship. Furthermore they may not preach, or teach, or usurp authority within a local church. Even the Catholic church (for all its false teachings and much of its history) barred women from becoming "priests". That is because of what is in the Bible.
If you care to explore all this in Scripture, do your due diligence (going all the way back to Moses and the elders of Israel). But do not try and pervert or minimize the truth. The Southern Baptist Convention -- for all its faults -- did what was biblical in ousting Saddleback church from their fellowship (of course too little and too late). But today many Christians (including Rick Warren) reject Bible truth because it does not suit their fancy. And then we have a whole host of false apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers on radio and TV.
Elders are not deacons, and deacons are not elders. And in the New Testament churches, there was always a plurality of elders called "the presbytery" in Scripture (not just one man trying to be the shepherd for a whole church). No women were allowed to be elders or deacons. This is also why Christian women are commanded (a) to cover their heads during worship and (b) remain silent during worship. Furthermore they may not preach, or teach, or usurp authority within a local church. Even the Catholic church (for all its false teachings and much of its history) barred women from becoming "priests". That is because of what is in the Bible.
If you care to explore all this in Scripture, do your due diligence (going all the way back to Moses and the elders of Israel). But do not try and pervert or minimize the truth. The Southern Baptist Convention -- for all its faults -- did what was biblical in ousting Saddleback church from their fellowship (of course too little and too late). But today many Christians (including Rick Warren) reject Bible truth because it does not suit their fancy. And then we have a whole host of false apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers on radio and TV.
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Somehow I can't picture someone patting you on the head. Not twice anyway.
I know that the treatment of women throughout history has been wanting. I even recognize there are men in the body of Christ who perpetuate the same. I don't excuse their behavior. But a blanket denouncement is often evidence of some injustice that left scars that have yet to heal and doesn't address the real issue.
I know that the treatment of women throughout history has been wanting. I even recognize there are men in the body of Christ who perpetuate the same. I don't excuse their behavior. But a blanket denouncement is often evidence of some injustice that left scars that have yet to heal and doesn't address the real issue.
Saddleback sounds like a bunch of brats who cant handle it when theres a female at the helm
sorry
so, if your mother is a widow does that mean she cant lead your family?
What about the Queen of England, who had no brothers, did people expect her husband Prince Phillip to take over just cos he was male.
When you the firstborn female, you take on the role of firstborn. You dont wait for the firstborn male.
Im sorry does everyone just expect all families to have firstborns as males? doesnt happen in real life.
sorry
so, if your mother is a widow does that mean she cant lead your family?
What about the Queen of England, who had no brothers, did people expect her husband Prince Phillip to take over just cos he was male.
When you the firstborn female, you take on the role of firstborn. You dont wait for the firstborn male.
Im sorry does everyone just expect all families to have firstborns as males? doesnt happen in real life.
Your post implies i have not read the Bible. A woman, a man being in their Godly places, or roles, is a good part of what makes them Godly. As Christians should we be striving to live according to His ideals or those of the world?
You mentioned Deborah and a couple others . There is the obedient strength of Ruth, who is a grandmother of Jesus. The wisdom and fearlessness of Esther, God used to save the Israelites, the bravery of Rahab another grandmother of Jesus. The women Paul speaks of were strong to live through what was being done to Christians at that time.
Chocolate ice cream is a favorite but i dont want it on apple pie. So much of todays world is man hating. Todays Godless woman does all she can to emasculate . Terms like toxic masculinity is what the world thinks of God's creation. Toxic feminism has murder over 60 million in the last 50 or so years. Who is toxic? We both male and female are not called to walk one foot in the ways of the world and the other on His path.
You mentioned Deborah and a couple others . There is the obedient strength of Ruth, who is a grandmother of Jesus. The wisdom and fearlessness of Esther, God used to save the Israelites, the bravery of Rahab another grandmother of Jesus. The women Paul speaks of were strong to live through what was being done to Christians at that time.
Chocolate ice cream is a favorite but i dont want it on apple pie. So much of todays world is man hating. Todays Godless woman does all she can to emasculate . Terms like toxic masculinity is what the world thinks of God's creation. Toxic feminism has murder over 60 million in the last 50 or so years. Who is toxic? We both male and female are not called to walk one foot in the ways of the world and the other on His path.