Technological Signs relating to Christ’s Coming are being fulfilled.

[Cameron143]

Why do you say this?

It has nothing to do with you.

 

[GaryA]

Are you looking at the quoted passage above and thinking: UNSAVED persons of the nation of Israel, who've DIED (at some point in the past, from this perspective) will be "resurrected" (bodily, from the dead) and THEN the SPIRIT OF GOD is breathed into them (like, AFTER 'DEATH' / at some point AFTER THEY'VE DIED)??

I am looking at it as the saved individual literal people of the original [real-and-true] nation of Israel - after the resurrection - living in the land during the Millenium.

 

[GaryA]

It has nothing to do with you.

Didn't think it did...

What is wrong?

Is it a "just can't stand to be in the same thread with [a certain person]" kind of thing?

Is it a "just can't get anyone to agree with my view" kind of thing?

What is it?

Did I miss something?

 

[GaryA]

We should probably not stray too far from the thread topic.

No doubt there has been enough of that already...

 

[Cameron143]

Didn't think it did...

What is wrong?

Is it a "just can't stand to be in the same thread with [a certain person]" kind of thing?

Is it a "just can't get anyone to agree with my view" kind of thing?

What is it?

Did I miss something?

I don't desire to cause dissension or be a stumbling block. It's a personal decision.

 

[GaryA]

I don't desire to cause dissension or be a stumbling block. It's a personal decision.

Okay.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I am looking at it as the saved individual literal people of the original [real-and-true] nation of Israel - after the resurrection - living in the land during the Millenium.

Okay, I think I grasp your meaning / understanding of this text.

What do you do with the following verses (I'm always referencing vv.12-14 and 20-23 in my posts, when I make the point I did / do):

20When the sticks on which you write are in your hand and in full view of the people, 21you are to tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘I will take the Israelites out of the nations to which they have gone, and I will gather them from all around and bring them into their own land. 22I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel, and one king will rule over all of them. Then they will no longer be two nations and will never again be divided into two kingdoms.

23They will no longer defile themselves with their idols or detestable images, or with any of their transgressions. I will save them from all their apostasies by which they sinned,c [most Hebrew manuscripts all their dwelling places where they sinned ] and I will cleanse them. Then they will be My people, and I will be their God.


[I see this ^ connected with the time-prophecy in Dan9:24 connected with Isaiah 27:12-13,9 [/Rom11:[15,25,]26-27 and Matt24:29-31] re: Israel's future... "still-living" persons at that time (not that I don't believe OT saved of Israel will be resurrected, I DO! Dan12:13 for example!]





____________

I had another question (some time back... but I got distracted away from the discussion and now can no longer FIND it)... where you'd put (something like) you see the "break" being between Dan11:39 and 11:40 (I think you said--I see a "break" also, btwn two different verses), but I was WONDERING, approx what kind of spans of time are you thinking that "break-between-verses" consists of, like, does it resume in the 70ad events, or much later, like in the yet-future (to us) lead-up-yrs (we call the Trib), leading up to Christ's RETURN to the earth? (Or other?) I wasn't clear on how you view that "break" (based on the convo we were engaged in at the time, I couldn't tell... but had wanted to ask you).

Would you mind briefly commenting?

 

[HeIsHere]

I believe you have misunderstood my question.

In 'practical' terms, there will be a "last soul saved" before Christ returns - there is/are no two ways about it - it is, by definition, inescapable.

In 'practical' terms, we are talking about souls actually being saved rather than the power to save being ever-present for that purpose.

I am not convinced of the futurist paradigm, I am undecided as to whether scripture is revealing this.

 

[GaryA]

What do you do with the following verses

Just an "extension" of the verses before it with more detail...

where you'd put (something like) you see the "break" being between Dan11:39 and 11:40

The phrase at the beginning of verse 40 allows for a 'gap' of time...

 

[cv5]

Was the 18th century Methodist Joseph Benson a full preterist? His note on Joel 2:31
"The expressions here used, in their literal sense, import the failing of light in the sun and moon, whether by eclipses or any other cause, such as perhaps, at the time here referred to, by the prodigious quantity of smoke arising from the burning of cities, towns, and villages on every side, and also of Jerusalem itself, which undoubtedly was sufficient to obscure the heavenly luminaries for some time. Or, the expression in this verse may be interpreted figuratively of the dark and melancholy state of public affairs before and at the destruction of the Jewish nation by the Romans, and of the utter overthrow of their state and government: see note on Isaiah 13:9-10. The last destruction of Jerusalem, the desolation of Judea, and the prodigious slaughter made of the Jews, might with great propriety be called, as it is here, The great and terrible day of the Lord; since the divine justice was then executed with a severity which had never been used before toward the Jewish people. The calamities of those times were indeed dreadful, almost beyond description, and seem to have exceeded any thing that any other nation had ever suffered; which was agreeable to what Moses, in the very beginning of their state, had foretold should happen to them, if ever, by their disobedience to God’s commands, and their other crimes, they should fill up the measure of their iniquity"
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rbc/joel-2.html

Was the 18th century Baptist John Gill a full preterist? His note on Joel 2:31
"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,.... Not by eclipses, as Aben Ezra; but by the clouds of smoke arising from the burning of towns and cities, which would be so great as to obscure the sun, and through which the moon would look like blood: or all, this may be understood in a figurative sense of the change that should be made in the ecclesiastic and civil state of the Jewish nation, signified by the "heavens" and "earth"; and particularly that their king or kingdom should be in a low, mean, and distressed condition, designed by the sun; and the change of their priesthood is signified by the "moon": so Vitringa on Isaiah 24:23; interprets the "sun" here of King Agrippa, the last king of the Jews in obscurity; and the "moon" of Ananias junior, the high priest, slain by the zealots:

before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come; not the fall of Gog and Magog, as Kimchi; not the day of the last judgment, but of the destruction of Jerusalem; not by the Chaldeans, but by the Romans; their last destruction, which was very great and terrible indeed, and in which there was a manifest appearance of the hand and power of God; see Malachi 4:1. Maimonides u interprets it of the destruction of Sennacherib near Jerusalem; but if that sense is not acceptable, he proposes that of the destruction of Gog and Magog, in the times of the Messiah."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/geb/joel-2.html

Neither Joseph Benson nor John Gill were full preterists and neither am I. I merely read scripture in its context. I do believe the great judgments of God have similarities but a passage has one meaning and one meaning only.

No way man. The obviously correct interpretation is found in Rev 6. Revelation is chock full to overflowing with OT types and prophetic fulfillments. Exactly what you would expect from end time OT prophecies being fulfilled yet future right?

End times bro. And future. No doubt about it.

Rev 6:12
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Joe 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I believe quantum technology is essential for a centralized headquarters when the Beast is in control. Of course, other related technical oddities can and most likely will be used for tracking and monitoring a variety of activities.

I have seen first hand satellites, government issued defense models, capable of being 10 orbits from Earth and while traveling around the Planet be able to focus on a specific location and literally from thousands and thousands of miles away read the face of a Dime laying on a sidewalk.

They are in competition with China who claims they can find any one single human being off grid within 15 minutes.

So I believe from the technical standpoint it is in place.

I know most of the world claims they will be cashless using electronic currency in next 5 years.

Even Biden sent a proposal to the Senate in his first month's in Office looking into our own currency becoming electronic.

There is always going to be glitches even during the Tribulation Period, probably more due to it.

But technology is definitely in place waiting to be the instrument most likely used from a centralized headquarters.

 

[GaryA]

I am not convinced of the futurist paradigm, I am undecided as to whether scripture is revealing this.

I am not a futurist. I am a/an historicist. I am convinced that the futurist view is replete with error that originates from the severe misinterpretation of scripture. I have no problem telling you outright that scripture is most certainly not revealing it.

If this is not the type of thing you are talking about - then - what exactly are you talking about?

And, perhaps more importantly, how did this come out of our "conversation" in posts 371 - 373 - 378 - 385 - 399...???

 

[HeIsHere]

I am not a futurist. I am a/an historicist. I am convinced that the futurist view is replete with error that originates from the severe misinterpretation of scripture. I have no problem telling you outright that scripture is most certainly not revealing it.

If this is not the type of thing you are talking about - then - what exactly are you talking about?

And, perhaps more importantly, how did this come out of our "conversation" in posts 371 - 373 - 378 - 385 - 399...???

I am not sure, I would have to go back and read the conversation.

Historicist you say, at least you are moving in the right direction!!

 

[soberxp]

I am not a futurist. I am a/an historicist. I am convinced that the futurist view is replete with error that originates from the severe misinterpretation of scripture. I have no problem telling you outright that scripture is most certainly not revealing it.

If this is not the type of thing you are talking about - then - what exactly are you talking about?

And, perhaps more importantly, how did this come out of our "conversation" in posts 371 - 373 - 378 - 385 - 399...???

my friend,

The so-called futurism, is historicism before you realize it.

I understand your point. Many interpretations of biblical prophecies have nothing to do with the Bible and are ridiculous,

but I agree with OP at the time.

 

[GaryA]

I have seen first hand satellites, government issued defense models, capable of being 10 orbits from Earth and while traveling around the Planet be able to focus on a specific location and literally from thousands and thousands of miles away read the face of a Dime laying on a sidewalk.

'10 orbits from Earth' ?

Please explain in specific physical-realm terms what you meant by this. I don't see how it fits into the currently-accepted collection of terms used by NASA et al.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

'10 orbits from Earth' ?

Please explain in specific physical-realm terms what you meant by this. I don't see how it fits into the currently-accepted collection of terms used by NASA et al.

After a satellite is blasted into the Earth's Atmosphere and leaves the orbital sphere It's programmed to its rotational path and spends its lifetime taking pictures.

But to answer your question:

The distance from ground level to the point where the satellite is traveling around the Earth is the orbital pattern. So, that distance times ten is how I understood it to mean.

 

[Komentaja]

The nation state of Israel is not fully soveriegn or muslims would not occupy the temple mount.
Im not willing to ignor what is written,
“Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God drives you, and you return to the Lord your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, that the Lord your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the Lord your God has scattered you.
Deuteronomy 30:1‭-‬3 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/deu.30.1-3.NKJV

There is nothing left to be said here. We are never going to agree.

I have been pondering about these verses too. Could someone address these @cv5 Do you have any input on these verses and how they relate to the state of Israel?

My mind is not made up on the subject but I see the foundation of Israel as a miracle. They beat 5 countries that attacked them simultaneously in 1967, completely outnumbered. I know they are an antichrist state meaning they deny Christ both jews and muslims, BUT ive been thinking about it like this:

In Zechariah 14 the nations are gathered against Israel, correct? Who is doing the gathering of these nations? its GOD and it seems like its about PUNISHMENT to Israel. Now think about this: WHY would God punish an obedient Israel like the one mentioned in Deuteronomy? It wouldn't make much sense, but if Israel was gathered in unbelief, and then punished for it and THEN a 3rd is refined and saved when Jesus returns as we see in Zechariah 14, and then the nations are punished. Wouldn't this timeline fit? What do you guys think?

 

[Komentaja]

How can someone say Israel's redemption isn't future? The Bible makes clear that this doesn't happen in AD70 but when Jesus returns and when the nations go to celebrate the feast of tabernacles after the massive war and 2nd coming. This CLEARLY has not happened!

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I have been pondering about these verses too. Could someone address these @cv5 Do you have any input on these verses and how they relate to the state of Israel?

My mind is not made up on the subject but I see the foundation of Israel as a miracle. They beat 5 countries that attacked them simultaneously in 1967, completely outnumbered. I know they are an antichrist state meaning they deny Christ both jews and muslims, BUT ive been thinking about it like this:

In Zechariah 14 the nations are gathered against Israel, correct? Who is doing the gathering of these nations? its GOD and it seems like its about PUNISHMENT to Israel. Now think about this: WHY would God punish an obedient Israel like the one mentioned in Deuteronomy? It wouldn't make much sense, but if Israel was gathered in unbelief, and then punished for it and THEN a 3rd is refined and saved when Jesus returns as we see in Zechariah 14, and then the nations are punished. Wouldn't this timeline fit? What do you guys think?

Also concider what is written in the book of the Revelation of John.
‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 2:9 NASB1995
Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.
Revelation 3:9 NASB1995
Here God calls them a synagog of satan.

My personal view on their "victory" in 67 is part of a great deception designed to mislead christians into a satanic backward version of zionism. The same with rebuilding the temple and attempting to breed the "red heifer"
If you read the description of the temple in Ezekiel, this is not a thing that can be done by any human. Its not a man made temple. This is God's temple. What ever they build in the nation state of Israel will be a counterfeit.

 

[Komentaja]

Also concider what is written in the book of the Revelation of John.
‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 2:9 NASB1995
Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.
Revelation 3:9 NASB1995
Here God calls them a synagog of satan.

My personal view on their "victory" in 67 is part of a great deception designed to mislead christians into a satanic backward version of zionism. The same with rebuilding the temple and attempting to breed the "red heifer"
If you read the description of the temple in Ezekiel, this is not a thing that can be done by any human. Its not a man made temple. This is God's temple. What ever they build in the nation state of Israel will be a counterfeit.

But what about Zechariah 14 that clearly mentions nations going to war against Israel, and in Jerusalem the geographical location, and then Jesus returns and restores. Isn't that what its all about?

I dont deny there are fake jews, there definitely is, but according to Bible prophecy there are real jews in Jerusalem today as well