The Heresy of Perfectionism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C

Consumed

Guest
#641
#641
FireOnTheAltar said:
While that is entirely true, it only pertains to sin after sin has already been committed. However, it does not answer the question.

Why is that God has promised to provide us an escape BEFORE sinning?
Click to expand...
Because He loves us, wouldnt you for your own child, if you have any, but we still have free choice and can give into it. Does it mean one strike your out?? Would I do that to my daughter cause she made a bad choice or show her grace and correct her with love. Great about having children is the dynamics you can see between a father and child then think of Father God and us. Grace abounds, not a liscense to abuse it I stress
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#642
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#642
AnandaHya said:
that is what I believe. God could make us perfect but if we are still prideful we will think WE did it and get haughty so allows us to walk alone for a while and we realize it is not US who is able to keep His commandments but His Holy Spirit that lives in us. we fail our trials but the prideful justify their sins and say they are not sins and do not need to change, the humble grow in Christ and are convicted by His word and revelation.

For example do you truly love your neighbor as yourself if you tell them they do not deserve your respect?
Click to expand...
Ephesians 2
By Grace Through Faith
1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
 
F

FireOnTheAltar

Guest
#643
#643
Galatians 6:7

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap."
 
4

4runner

Banned
#644
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
5
0
#644
Abiding said:
Who needs a devil when we have a human here to do the preaching for Him. Kinda makes ya sick to hear nothing of the Love or grace of
God. Because to Him the teaching of the grace of God promotes sin. I spose that would look that way to a selfrighteous person, But far
from the soul who has been given that grace. The one who the Father has given His rest to. The one who is sensitive to the Spirit, and been
given a new heart with holy affections. That person hears this as nothing more than a loud mouth immature person who thinks his supposed
place in the church is to be a judgemental pain in the ear because its fits his rotten immature personality. Ive seen them come and go. They
serve no purpose but to help our santification.
Click to expand...
Ahh more false accusation and slander. This is exactly why Jesus warns us not to give that which is holy to the dogs. However there are some in here (maybe never posting, just reading) that will benefit from the truth.
 
F

foundthetruth

Banned
#645
Jul 25, 2011
164
2
0
#645
Let us love each other.

All of you, pray about this. Leave it in the hands of God. For now, hold your peace.
James 1:19 "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:"
Proverbs 14:29 "He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly."

May the Lord bless and establish you, making all your ways straight and blameless before him.
 
4

4runner

Banned
#646
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
5
0
#646
Consumed said:
Because He loves us, wouldnt you for your own child, if you have any, but we still have free choice and can give into it. Does it mean one strike your out?? Would I do that to my daughter cause she made a bad choice or show her grace and correct her with love. Great about having children is the dynamics you can see between a father and child then think of Father God and us. Grace abounds, not a liscense to abuse it I stress
Click to expand...
We can sin, but we can also choose not to. And of course there is no one strike rule with the Lord, His mercy endures forever ;)
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#647
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#647
4runner said:
Ahh more false accusation and slander. This is exactly why Jesus warns us not to give that which is holy to the dogs. However there are some in here (maybe never posting, just reading) that will benefit from the truth.
Click to expand...
God's words are holy.
God's Grace is Holy.
Jesus is Holy.
His Sacrifice is Holy.

just because you post corruptions of them does not make you holy, neither does it make others dogs.
 
4

4runner

Banned
#648
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
5
0
#648
foundthetruth said:
Let us love each other.

All of you, pray about this. Leave it in the hands of God. For now, hold your peace.
James 1:19 "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:"
Proverbs 14:29 "He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly."

May the Lord bless and establish you, making all your ways straight and blameless before him.
Click to expand...
Once again a hearty amen
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#649
#649
FireOnTheAltar said:
Good post Grandpa and completely relevant after we have stumbled but it doesn't answer my question.
Click to expand...
God gives us a choice as a test of our hearts to show us were we fall short but He also teaches us the way we should follow. Sometimes we do not learn the lesson He means us to from His words and His messages to us. It is like when you tell a child not to do something but they do it anyway, what happens next?

God chastens us and corrects us when we stumble but also teaches us how not to do it again. sometimes the lesson holds more weight and is remembered better if we are allowed to make the mistake even though God could prevent us from doing it. He is testing to see if He can trust us and if we rely on ourselves or if we trust in Him. sometimes He uses our trials and our failures as a means to testify to His mercy and lead others to Him.

we can tell people. look I'm not perfect and I have been were you are now but I KNOW in my heart God loves me and I Know He loves you too. He is your Heavenly Father. right now you have been awaken and convicted of your transgression let us talk about it and talk about God's salvation plan for you. lets talk about what true repentance is and how Jesus imputed righteousness and forgiveness of sins through His sacrifice on the Cross truly works. Lets talk about Faith and about abiding in Christ and give testimony of how the Holy Spirit leads and guides and brings forth the good fruits of the Spirit in the lives of believers. Lets talk about Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior of the world.
 
F

FireOnTheAltar

Guest
#651
#651
Consumed said:
Because He loves us, wouldnt you for your own child, if you have any, but we still have free choice and can give into it. Does it mean one strike your out?? Would I do that to my daughter cause she made a bad choice or show her grace and correct her with love. Great about having children is the dynamics you can see between a father and child then think of Father God and us. Grace abounds, not a liscense to abuse it I stress
Click to expand...
Consumed,

The reason I'm asking my question has nothing to do with whether or a person forfiet their salvation.

Good post though.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#652
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#652
4runner said:
True, true, true, and true
Are you holy zone?
Click to expand...
why would i answer you that question? you already think i'm a dog. and i'm totally ok with that.
you don't know what holy is.
you're the rich man leaving lazarus at the gate. what a 'holy' man he was.

you don't know what Christ did.
you don't believe the word at all.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#653
#653
Consumed said:
Because He loves us, wouldnt you for your own child, if you have any, but we still have free choice and can give into it. Does it mean one strike your out?? Would I do that to my daughter cause she made a bad choice or show her grace and correct her with love. Great about having children is the dynamics you can see between a father and child then think of Father God and us. Grace abounds, not a liscense to abuse it I stress
Click to expand...
lol you must have posted this while I was typing my response ;)
 
F

FireOnTheAltar

Guest
#654
#654
AnandaHya said:
God gives us a choice as a test of our hearts to show us were we fall short but He also teaches us the way we should follow. Sometimes we do not learn the lesson He means us to from His words and His messages to us. It is like when you tell a child not to do something but they do it anyway, what happens next?

God chastens us and corrects us when we stumble but also teaches us how not to do it again. sometimes the lesson holds more weight and is remembered better if we are allowed to make the mistake even though God could prevent us from doing it. He is testing to see if He can trust us and if we rely on ourselves or if we trust in Him. sometimes He uses our trials and our failures as a means to testify to His mercy and lead others to Him.

we can tell people. look I'm not perfect and I have been were you are now but I KNOW in my heart God loves me and I Know He loves you too. He is your Heavenly Father. right now you have been awaken and convicted of your transgression let us talk about it and talk about God's salvation plan for you. lets talk about what true repentance is and how Jesus imputed righteousness and forgiveness of sins through His sacrifice on the Cross truly works. Lets talk about Faith and about abiding in Christ and give testimony of how the Holy Spirit leads and guides and brings forth the good fruits of the Spirit in the lives of believers. Lets talk about Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior of the world.
Click to expand...
Great post and I do agree however, it's still not the answer.
 
4

4runner

Banned
#655
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
5
0
#655
zone said:
why would i answer you that question? you already think i'm a dog. and i'm totally ok with that.
you don't know what holy is.
you're the rich man leaving lazarus at the gate. what a 'holy' man he was.

you don't know what Christ did.
you don't believe the word at all.
Click to expand...
I dont think you a dog, I think you are a wolf.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#656
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#656
4runner said:
I dont think you a dog, I think you are a wolf.
Click to expand...
i'm okay with that too (even though you're lying again since you've called me a dog).
since you are not of His flock, you don't recognize us.
 
jandian

jandian

Senior Member
#657
Feb 12, 2011
772
11
18
#657
LOL... Guys you really need to stop...
 
F

FireOnTheAltar

Guest
#658
#658
Galatians 6:7

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap."

Ephesians 4:29-31

29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#659
#659
foundthetruth said:
Let us love each other.

All of you, pray about this. Leave it in the hands of God. For now, hold your peace.
James 1:19 "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:"
Proverbs 14:29 "He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly."

May the Lord bless and establish you, making all your ways straight and blameless before him.
Click to expand...
yeah your right, but you will see how well those who say amen listen to your words. Peace seems a foreign word in some people's vocabulary. :)

have you read EM Bounds?

Power Through Prayer | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

"THE preaching that kills may be, and often is, orthodox—dogmatically, inviolably orthodox. We love orthodoxy. It is good. It is the best. It is the clean, clear-cut teaching of God’s Word, the trophies won by truth in its conflict with error, the levees which faith has raised against the desolating floods of honest or reckless misbelief or unbelief; but orthodoxy, clear and hard as crystal, suspicious and militant, may be but the letter well-shaped, well-named, and well-learned, the letter which kills. Nothing is so dead as a dead orthodoxy, too dead to speculate, too dead to think, to study, or to pray.

The preaching that kills may have insight and grasp of principles, may be scholarly and critical in taste, may have every minutia of the derivation and grammar of the letter, may be able to trim the letter into its perfect pattern, and illume it as Plato and Cicero may be illumined, may study it as a lawyer studies his text-books to form his brief or to defend his case, and yet be like a frost, a killing frost. Letter-preaching may be eloquent, enameled with poetry and rhetoric, sprinkled with prayer spiced with sensation, illumined by genius and yet these be but the massive or chaste, costly mountings, the rare and beautiful flowers which coffin the corpse. The preaching which kills may be without scholarship, unmarked by any freshness of thought or feeling, clothed in tasteless generalities or vapid specialties, with style irregular, slovenly, savoring neither of closet nor of study, graced neither by thought, expression, or prayer. Under such preaching how wide and utter the desolation! how profound the spiritual death!

This letter-preaching deals with the surface and shadow of things, and not the things themselves. It does not penetrate the inner part. It has no deep insight into, no strong grasp of, the hidden life of God’s Word. It is true to the outside, but the outside is the hull which must be broken and penetrated for the kernel. The letter may be dressed so as to attract and be fashionable, but the attraction is not toward God nor is the fashion for heaven. The failure is in the preacher. God has not made him. He has never been in the hands of God like clay in the hands of the potter. He has been busy about the sermon, its thought and finish, its drawing and impressive forces; but the deep things of God have never been sought, studied, fathomed, experienced by him. He has never stood before “the throne high and lifted up,” never heard the seraphim song, never seen the vision nor felt the rush of that awful holiness, and cried out in utter abandon and despair under the sense of weakness and guilt, and had his life renewed, his heart touched, purged, inflamed by the live coal from God’s altar"
 
4

4runner

Banned
#660
Jul 3, 2011
2,417
5
0
#660
What I find strange is that people claim ''I am not perfect'' out of some false since of humility, and those that agree with what God says about them do so out of pride.

Where do you people get this stuff from.

Colossians 2
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Believing God's word does not make one prideful
 
You must log in or register to reply here.