The Heresy of Perfectionism

[eternally-gratefull]

You hate God's word, and God's people. You have proven that by your approach to His truth
False doctrine you love, you spend your life defending it.

dude for a man who is supposed to be a pastor you sure have alot of hate and anger. I pray you do not use this hate and anger to whip your congregation in line.

then again. You believe in a gospel of works. so your leading them on the wrong path anyway.. I pray they see your spirit and God uses this to show them his truth. because your preaching and your actions do not show you have anything from God!

 

[NoahsMom]

And there in lies the problem. While you may see yourself as a watchman or a defender of the faith, in truth your actions reveal what truly lives inside of your heart. It's obvious that any compassion that you express is a mask that can be taken on and off at your convenience. Why not admit that you love to argue, you love the attention, you love knowledge and the idea that you are right (in your own opinion, that is) and others are wrong. Basically, you place more value on knowledge over the souls of others and that makes you wrong at heart regardless if your words might be right. Double edged sword here maybe? FOTA, I got absolutely NO problem with you, you bring ALOT to these threads, some, I enjoy reading and get alot out of, but shes givin as good as she gets, if your gonna call out her, you call out the rest. Why is it ok for some to defend what they think is right and true, but not zone? I have no problem with 4runner, as I stated before what he does and says is between him and the Lord, but he maybe could handle things differently too, I think some in here want to hold zone to a certain standard but not everybody else, thats not right I dont care what kind a spin you want to put on it.

 

[Consumed]

a very weird obssession.
perhap a vacation? therapy?

Definately counseling.
And to anyone out there reading, I challenge anyone to let His love shine thru us in all we do. Zone is awesome and yet I nit pick at her too, doesn't mean she is a wolf or this or that, she has passion of the things of God I admire that in all and any who call on the name of our Lord.
I'm a pain to everyone I hope in reminding them the gospel is built on the foundations of His love as is all creation.

 

[4runner]

dude for a man who is supposed to be a pastor you sure have alot of hate and anger. I pray you do not use this hate and anger to whip your congregation in line.

Almost everything you post shows you know nothing about me.

Jesus told the Pharisees to have righteous judgment.Do not judge the outer expression of what you think you see, but judge righteously.

I think you really need to take His advice.

 

[zone]

dude for a man who is supposed to be a pastor you sure have alot of hate and anger. I pray you do not use this hate and anger to whip your congregation in line.

then again. You believe in a gospel of works. so your leading them on the wrong path anyway.. I pray they see your spirit and God uses this to show them his truth. because your preaching and your actions do not show you have anything from God!

he's a PASTOR????????

 

[NoahsMom]

This is the deal Consumed...........Zone and I differ in I am charismatic, I believe the gifts have not ceased, HOWEVER , ANYTIME I have felt offended, she explains to me its not personal, and I KNOW its not in her to hurt one hair on my head, she is doin what she feels called to do , and I WOULD NEVER tell her not to, she knows where she stands in God, and who am I to tell her where that is? All I can do is pray she finds her way, and I know she will, she is strong and she has the desire to get there. People act like she has NO feelings, NO love, let me explain something, GOD SAYS DIFFERENT, I guarentee you he looks at her NO different than any of the rest of us, he didnt die for SOME, he died for ALL. I for one am proud to call her my sister in christ, and if that damns me to hell in somes eyes here, then so be it.

 

[4runner]

. Double edged sword here maybe? FOTA, I got absolutely NO problem with you, you bring ALOT to these threads, some, I enjoy reading and get alot out of, but shes givin as good as she gets, if your gonna call out her, you call out the rest. Why is it ok for some to defend what they think is right and true, but not zone? I have no problem with 4runner, as I stated before what he does and says is between him and the Lord, but he maybe could handle things differently too, I think some in here want to hold zone to a certain standard but not everybody else, thats not right I dont care what kind a spin you want to put on it.

What I see is everyone ignoring Zones attacks, and then defend her if anyone dares to call he out on it.

I mean geesh, how many people have posted correction to FOTA for speaking the truth?

 

[zone]

This is the deal Consumed...........Zone and I differ in I am charismatic, I believe the gifts have not ceased, HOWEVER , ANYTIME I have felt offended, she explains to me its not personal, and I KNOW its not in her to hurt one hair on my head, she is doin what she feels called to do , and I WOULD NEVER tell her not to, she knows where she stands in God, and who am I to tell her where that is? All I can do is pray she finds her way, and I know she will, she is strong and she has the desire to get there. People act like she has NO feelings, NO love, let me explain something, GOD SAYS DIFFERENT, I guarentee you he looks at her NO different than any of the rest of us, he didnt die for SOME, he died for ALL. I for one am proud to call her my sister in christ, and if that damns me to hell in somes eyes here, then so be it.

i love you Ma.
and i have never thought of you as anything other than my beloved sister in Jesus. you know that.
who cares if anybody else doesn't.
i can't wait to hug you and scotty and the young 'uns in glory....if we ever even thinking of looking at anyone other than Jesus!

 

[NoahsMom]

4 runner, Im not defending anybody, what Im sayin is you cant hold some to a certain standard, and then some to another. Seems to me like ppl are only amen'n him when hes sayin shes wrong. Im not saying YOU shouldnt speak truth, Im not sayin YOU shouldnt do what Gods called you to do either, Im just saying all the little jabs could be done in better taste. Like grown ppl.

 

[zone]

The peril of perfectionism is that it seriously distorts the human mind. Imagine the contortions through which we must put ourselves to delude us into thinking that we have in fact achieved a state of sinlessness.

Inevitably the error of perfectionism breeds one, or usually two, deadly delusions. To convince ourselves that we have achieved sinlessness, we must either suffer from a radical overestimation of our moral performance or we must seriously underestimate the requirements of God’s law. The irony of perfectionism is this: Though it seeks to distance itself from antinomianism, it relentlessly and inevitably comes full circle to the same error.

To believe that we are sinless we must annul the standards of God’s Law. We must reduce the level of divine righteousness to the level of our own performance. We must lie to ourselves both about the Law of God and about our own obedience. To do that requires that we quench the Spirit when He seeks to convict us of sin. Persons who do that are not so much Spirit-filled as they are Spirit-quenchers.

THIS IS HOW I KNOW MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS:

One of the true marks of our ongoing sanctification is the growing awareness of how far short we fall of reaching perfection. Perfectionism is really antiperfectionism in disguise. If we think we are becoming perfect, then we are far from becoming perfect..

AND IF THIS IS WHAT THEY PROFESS:

A perfect love would yield perfect obedience. The only perfected love this world has ever seen was the love of Christ, who exhibited perfect obedience. Jesus loved the Father perfectly. He sinned not at all, either willfully or in ignorance.

The Heresy of Perfectionism by R.C. Sproul | Ligonier Ministries Blog

 

[4runner]

4 runner, Im not defending anybody, what Im sayin is you cant hold some to a certain standard, and then some to another.

I totally agree. The point i am making is that Zone seems to me to be held to a lesser standard, not higher, and when anyone challenges her, her whole crew stand up and says stop that you unloving, judgmental grace denier.

I agree with you completely she needs to be held to the same standard as everyone else.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

And there in lies the problem. While you may see yourself as a watchman or a defender of the faith, in truth your actions reveal what truly lives inside of your heart. It's obvious that any compassion that you express is a mask that can be taken on and off at your convenience. Why not admit that you love to argue, you love the attention, you love knowledge and the idea that you are right (in your own opinion, that is) and others are wrong. Basically, you place more value on knowledge over the souls of others and that makes you wrong at heart regardless if your words might be right. Double edged sword here maybe? FOTA, I got absolutely NO problem with you, you bring ALOT to these threads, some, I enjoy reading and get alot out of, but shes givin as good as she gets, if your gonna call out her, you call out the rest. Why is it ok for some to defend what they think is right and true, but not zone? I have no problem with 4runner, as I stated before what he does and says is between him and the Lord, but he maybe could handle things differently too, I think some in here want to hold zone to a certain standard but not everybody else, thats not right I dont care what kind a spin you want to put on it.

Not at all when you take into consideration that 4runner has been here all but two weeks yet Zon'e behaviour has been consistant for months. While I don't condone 4runner's behavioure, this is not the first time I have called Zone out on hers.

I'm sorry guys but the hateful attitude and name calling has been going on for a long time against a variety of different people with very little provocation. All you have to do is disagree with Zone and you are automatically labeled a heretic, then ridiculed consistantly I might add.. I have seen this time after time after time.

 

[NoahsMom]

I totally agree. The point i am making is that Zone seems to me to be held to a lesser standard, not higher, and when anyone challenges her, her whole crew stand up and says stop that you unloving, judgmental grace denier.
1.-Im not her crew, Im her sister in Christ.
2.-Id do the same thing for anybody else in here that I felt was gettin un fair treatment, YOU included, ask anybody in here.Thats how I roll.

 

[NoahsMom]

I'm sorry guys but the hateful attitude and name calling has been going on for a long time against a variety of different people with very little provocation. All you have to do is disagree with Zone and you are automatically labeled a heretic, then ridiculed. I have seen this time after time after time. As I stated before, hes giving as good as he gets too, anybody with eyes in ALL of these forums readin all this train wreck can see it......THATS MY POINT..

 

[zone]

Not at all when you take into consideration that 4runner has been here all but two weeks yet Zon'e behaviour has been consistant for months. This is not the first time I have called her out on it. .

4runner got here and launched into his attacks on the second post: don't believe me?
GO LOOK.

who cares what you called me out on?
you've done your fair share of slandering.
you called calvin a devil and murderer....and promoted myths about finney and revivals as though they were FACT. FALSE TEACHINGS.

you defend the Five Fold Minstries and a whole range of stuff i am against. AM I not GOING TO COUNTER IT?

AND I'VE DONE SO WITH facts.

you've had long term members on here you claim you've put on "ignore" everytime they say something you don't like. and these are guys with THE GOSPEL.
but you've said THEY PROMOTE SIN.
because you believe in sinless perfection.
stop whining.

quit making this about me. so you've been pushing weird ideas. big deal.

I'm sorry guys but the hateful attitude and name calling has been going on for a long time against a variety of different people with very little provocation. All you have to do is disagree with Zone and you are automatically labeled a heretic, then ridiculed. I have seen this time after time after time.

not so......this isn't about me friend.
thats what you can't grasp.

i'm not about ANYTHING other than

1) what does God's Word say
2) what are men saying about what God's Word?
3) WHERE'S THE GOSPEL?

in fact, i'm about to start a thread on the Biblical Gospel...come on over.

 

[4runner]

I totally agree. The point i am making is that Zone seems to me to be held to a lesser standard, not higher, and when anyone challenges her, her whole crew stand up and says stop that you unloving, judgmental grace denier.
1.-Im not her crew, Im her sister in Christ.

I dont think you are in her crew, but she certainly has one. I really do not believe she is in Christ

2.-Id do the same thing for anybody else in here that I felt was gettin un fair treatment, YOU included, ask anybody in here.Thats how I roll

I appreciate the sentiment, but if you start about 5 or 6 pages back you would see what i mean, and no one, not even you said a thing.

 

[4runner]

who cares what you called me out on?
you've done your fair share of slandering.
you called calvin a devil and murderer.

Is slander slander when its true...just a question

 

[NoahsMom]

As I stated like for the third time, your holdin your own. As far as crews, your got your cheerin crowd.

 

[4runner]

you defend the Five Fold Minstries and a whole range of stuff i am against. AM I not GOING TO COUNTER IT?

Who but satan would be against God's chosen ministers?

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

I'm sorry guys but the hateful attitude and name calling has been going on for a long time against a variety of different people with very little provocation. All you have to do is disagree with Zone and you are automatically labeled a heretic, then ridiculed. I have seen this time after time after time. As I stated before, hes giving as good as he gets too, anybody with eyes in ALL of these forums readin all this train wreck can see it......THATS MY POINT..

Did anyone stop to think that 4runner mighgt not have enguaged in this behaviour if not provoked to do so by Zone's obsession with calling everyone a heretic who disagrees with her in the slightest?