The Heresy of Perfectionism

[4runner]

mmm 4runner add "latter rain" movement to your online research sheet, just a suggestion.

I want to be clear without coming off ofinsivly. i believe what i believe because of what they Holy Spirit has shown me through scripture. If i agree with the latter rain movement, and you think it is absurd, that does not mean that I am being led around by some latter rain teach. My only source is scripture.

I will look it up, but if i agree with them or disagree with them, or if someone is on there bashing them like the guy bashing Nar from the other link you posted. I doubt it will change my mind. As I will believe God's word regardless of who agrees or disagrees with me.

 

[4runner]

Originally Posted by AnandaHya

mmm 4runner add "latter rain" movement to your online research sheet, just a suggestion.

Let me say this, I just skimmed through the link you posted, but i tend to agree more with the guy being bashed, than the guy bashing him in that particular article

 

[4runner]

Do you oppose the latter rain movement??? I just read one article on it, but a promoter of it, and it sound fine to me?

 

[AnandaHya]

oh the other link was for zone because I'm reading up on Francis Frangipane, because someone else on this chat site posted an article that I found interesting. Since Zone actually agreed with that one article though she does not believe in the latter Rain movement. (sorry zone I shouldn't be talking about you, but that is actually why I started researching the guy)

I'm doing research on it all. lol started about 3 months ago after i joined this site). I just though I'd save you some heartache by giving you a heads up because your statement reminds me of them. I think that NAR and the Latter Rain movement twisted scripture to fit their desires a lot like Hinn and his crew do and that does not mean they did not incorporate some Biblical truth with their lies, it just means people need to read the Bible for themselves and pray about it.

lol and yeah I believe what I believe because of what the Holy Spirit has shown me through scripture as well. I'm still researching latter rain movement too but not so much since I don't personally know anyone who believes them.

 

[4runner]

I found this from this link What is the Latter Rain Movement? Which opposes the latter rain movement

''The Latter Rain Movement is an influence within Pentecostalism which teaches that the Lord is pouring out His Spirit again, as He did at Pentecost, and using believers to prepare the world for His Second Coming. The Latter Rain Movement is anti-dispensational and amillennial, and many leaders of the movement embrace aberrant teachings.''

I agree with them emboldened portion of this statement. I am not sure if the rest is even true as the source was against the teaching

Here is a link that supports the teaching The Latter Rain


I will say the list below is troubling in some areas
Ihere is a list of teachings that are charged to the Latter Rain Revival:

• Belief in healing
• the laying on of hands
• manifest sons of God
• emphasis on spiritual gifts, fasting, prayer and prophecy.
• allegiance to the five-fold ministry of Ephesians 4:11
• the teaching of the Jewish feasts as types
• a distrust of denominations
• a last day revival
• an outpouring of God's spirit in the last days
• Joel's army
• and a host of other stuff that condemns but doesn't make clear that these are all Bible teachings and that God's spirit is actually working in these areas.

 

[AnandaHya]

Do you oppose the latter rain movement??? I just read one article on it, but a promoter of it, and it sound fine to me?

it starts off fine, but you have to watch not only their words but the people and what they do with their words. I mean they use the Bible so of course some of it will sound fine.

I like Francis Frangipane and found this interesting in his book, he criticizes the movement with out actually naming it, let me find the quote...


oh we should move this to another thread, sorry zone...

 

[AnandaHya]

the two main ones I personally have issues with are the manifest Sons of God doctrine and Joel's army.

 

[4runner]

it starts off fine, but you have to watch not only their words but the people and what they do with their words. I mean they use the Bible so of course some of it will sound fine.

I like Francis Frangipane and found this interesting in his book, he criticizes the movement with out actually naming it, let me find the quote...


oh we should move this to another thread, sorry zone...

I have to go to bed, but I am enjoying the convo, and look forward to your thrwead. If you have any question about what i believe just ask, i might open a thread for all to ask.

Good night, and God bless

 

[4runner]

the two main ones I personally have issues with are the manifest Sons of God doctrine and Joel's army.

Yes i have heard that they both teach we receive immortal bodies before the resurrection if this is true (which i do not know if it is or not) that would be weird and wild stuff to believe....lol

 

[message75]

I believe that it is healthy to discuss the Bible and it's theological message, but to get heated? Not so much. It was simply said: you probably think this Psalm is about you.

Pardon me, I'm just peaking in, but that was most interesting. peace and grace to all.

 

[Katy-follower]

Adam and Eve brought sin into the world. The world will always be full of sin.

(The Bible says everyone has sinned)

Romans 5:12-13: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law"


1 Kings 8:46: "When they sin against You (for there is no one who does not sin), and You become angry with them and deliver them to the enemy, and they take them captive to the land of the enemy, far or near;"


1 John 1:8-10: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us"


Psalm 53:3: "Every one of them has turned aside; They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one"

Jesus is the only person who has not sinned.

 

[4runner]

Those passages have nothing to do with a christian life after salvation

 

[Ramon]

Adam and Eve brought sin into the world. The world will always be full of sin.

(The Bible says everyone has sinned)

Romans 5:12-13: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law"


1 Kings 8:46: "When they sin against You (for there is no one who does not sin), and You become angry with them and deliver them to the enemy, and they take them captive to the land of the enemy, far or near;"


1 John 1:8-10: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us"


Psalm 53:3: "Every one of them has turned aside; They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one"

Jesus is the only person who has not sinned.

There will not always be a world full of sin, as God is going to destroy this sinful world. So if you are a part of it, you will be condemned in it.

Jesus came to save us from this by giving his own life, not so that we can be of the world, but so that we can be saved from the righteous judgement of God who will bring justice to this world.

Regardless of what this post is, and whatever intention this has of derailing those who follow Jesus. Jesus Christ is perfecting the saints, and he has given his gifts, and the Holy Spirit still distributes them through the body. Jesus is not dead. The Holy Spirit is not dead, as his ministry continues.

What people want to do is justify sin and to ignore the Spirit of Truth. So how can they not listen to the father of lies? Jesus Christ is the truth, and there is no iniquity in him. Nor will his bride have ANY spot.

May Jesus bless you.

 

[Cobus]

Jesus is the only person who has not sinned, well what about John the Baptist, becasue he also was FILLED with the Holy Spirit even from his mother's womb. So there is a bit of a question. also if you say John the Baptist sinned, that means the Holy Spirit sinned becasue no-where do I read that the Holy Spirit was taken away from John the baptist! John the baptist sinned before he was Elijah, but that is another study... Let me adress the statement about Jesus was the only person who never sinned.. True! But Jesus in not the only one who CANNOT sin! ALL reborn cildren from God CANNOT sin... 1 John 3:9...Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. If you understand rebirth as God declared re-birth... Then you will also understand why ALL HOLY RE_BORN SAINTS CANNOT SIN!! Becasue the EXACT same Spirit that was in Jesus and John the Baptist is in ALL SAINTS!!! To say a child of God can sin is to make the Spirit of God a sinner! And d not come with the flesh thing!!! The flesh does not have a mind of his own! That mind that the flesh had that wanted to do sin, IS CHANGED TO A NEW MIND... That of GOD!!! The SEED that remain in a re-born person is the MIND OF GOD that remain in that same OLD flesh! Jesus had flesh EXACTLY like you!!! Ingerdient... 90%+ water... Water cannot sin it needs an EVIL THOUGHT to sin. God has no EVIL thoughts, but HOLY THOUGHTS, that is why they CANNOT sin. If you are not there yet, like me, then REPENT.. CHANGE YOUR MIND WITH THE HELP OF GOD!!!
So Jesus was the only one that did not sin, YES! Neither had John the baptist, but he did as Elijah, and neither CAN THE NEW COBUS, becasue God makes the NEW COBUS to be EXACTLY LIKE JESUS! And HE IS STILL THE ONE THAT CANNOT SIN!! God makes Cobus a NEW JESUS! A NEW CREATURE! the old is GONE! PASSE AWAY! DEAD! ONLY JESUS STILL LIVES IN THE NEW COBUS. That is IN CHRIST! Not this feeble... God looks at us through the blood of Jesus... That just prooves that you are on the wrong side of the blood... GO THROUGH THE NARROW GATE... The Blood is the NARROW GATE, and then you ARE IN GOD AND HE IN YOU!! How can you not understand this... If you passed THROUGH JESUS, you are NO LONGER HERE IN THE WORLD, YOU ARE IN HIM...AND IN HIM IS NO SIN.. IF YOU SIN YOU HAVE TO PASS THROUGH HIM!!! If you are in HIM HE IS IN YOU! AND NEITHER OF YOU CAN SIN< BECASUE THERE IS NO SIN THERE! THE SIN STAYED ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CROSS! Nobody can sneak sin into JESUS! Come on nobody is this blind! LOOK ! IN CHRIST IS NO SIN!!!NONE, ZIP, FIKILELE, NIKS, HAZIGALO, FAGALO,
How can you do sin where there is none? If you are IN HIM THERE IS NO SIN! Just take it and make it your own.. IT IS FREE!

 

[Consumed]

All have fallen short, Elijah after calling down fire from heaven ran from Jezebel in fear, john the baptist declared who Jesus is yet sends his disciples to ask Jesus if He was the one, doubted. Moses struck the rock, frustrated, before that he said "who me" questioned Gideon doubted asked for a sign,assurance, no one was without sin but Jesus. Joshua had to be told few times fear not I am with you, fearful, only Jesus never feared ran or doubted or struck out at God. He is holy and perfect.
Remember these are still mighty men of God
My 2cents lol
&#57378;&#57378;&#57378;

 

[Cobus]

Consumed let me show you what Jesus showed me about John the Baptists "DOUBTFULNESS". Ok John did not doubt, and what he did there was to PASS HIS DISCIPLES TO JESUS!!! Let me show you... First thing that stands against the doubt...When the two babies, Jesus and John were in their mothers wombs, John got exceted by the precence of the baby Jesus, becasue they were ALREADY CONNECTED WITH THE SAME BOND! Both these babies will live their ENTIRE LIVES TO DO THE WILL OF GOD ALONE!!!! Both prophecied to do that! No argument accepted. John was sent by God to DO ONLY GOD"S WILL, and to proof that Jesus said he will be the most SPECIAL man EVER born from a woman! John NEVER DOUBTED JESUS, becasue John send his disciples to Jesus so that he can hand them over to Jesus, he was not going to see them again, becasue that night i believe he lost his head to the evil doers! When those disciples of John came to Jesus to ask Him if He were the MEssiah, do you think Jesus would send them to John with an answer? Knowing very well John will lose his head? Nope, they will stay with Jesus. Exactly what John intended... Let them go to Jesus, becasue i am about to lose my head! Just the way God works, the disciples of John the baptist had to become the disciples of Jesus, John was not the Messiah, he only prepared the way and was witness to the light, and now he send his faithful disciples to the LIGHT! Is this not beautiful? Man we serve an awesome God!

 

[Consumed]

Cobus my friend and brother, I find it a bit odd that john sent them with the specific question "are you the one", that's why I see doubt in his statement conveyed by his disciples. Otherwise "all have fallen short" is a lie, God forbid for there is no lie in Gods word. Regardless brother I love you and ill pray and read the scriptures again, til then whether or not I get a answer I will just keep on loving you regardless without a problem. Your a good man, ok not you you but Jesus in you who is in the Fathet lol &#57378;&#57378;&#57378;

 

[Cobus]

I just ask myself this.... How can God keep a person from NEVER SINNIG? The only way God can do that as i understand from the Word, is by FILLING that person with the Holy Spirit, becasue the Holy Spirit is GOD!!! So if God filled me with the Holy Spirit, can I still sin? Why did Jesus never sin, and what was the difference between me and Jesus? He had flesh like me, He had soul Like me! He had Spirit, do I have? Why could Jesus accomplish ...NO SIN EVER and I cannot? Do I have to become GOD before I become without sin? Or let me put it this way.. I am here now, in this world where sin is a plenty... How can God keep Jesus from not sinning? I mean God send Jesus to this world and He did not sin, can GOD make me the same Jesus was? YES!!! God gave me a spirit when I was born... That spirit came from God, and that spirit was pure but that spirit is NOT HOLY SPIRIT YET!!! It is just a spirit from God. And the Bible even talks about evil spirits from God, but that is another tudy... But when God speaks about HIS HOLY SPIRIT He speaks about the FATHER OF JESUS!!! Mary did not concieve by Joseph... The Holy Spirit was the FATHER! That is the difenence between me and Jesus!!! Jesus did not get bread from MAN but from GOD!!! I was the result of lust in man, my daddy! Jesus was the result of God's WILL! And when God decided he wanted me to be one of HIS SONS, he would also have to be MY FATHER!! The moment Jesus is reborn in me And me into Him, then the Holy Spirit exchange places with my spirit, or if you like my spirit becomes HOLY SPIRIT, and that is what John the Baptist recieved from his mother's womb. Who baptized John the baptist, and with WHAT? God baptized John the baptist with the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb. Filled with Holy Spirit, where is there place for doubt? If a glass is full of water there is no place for anything else! Full means FULL especialy if God says FILLED!!! Read Luke 1... Many people do not realize it but even John's parents were special...They were both righteous BEGORE GOD... would yuo say they sinned STILL, I know they sinned BEFORE, but did they STILL sin, becasue the Bible says they were righteous BEFORE GOD, that means not even God saw them sinning! And when he doubted, was that now sin? If it was, he fell dumb up to the day the boy was born... Read Luke 1, with the new thoughts I stirred, man God is great! And His salvation is way more powerful that the sinner can anticipate!! I am surprised and astonished and GREATFUL and thankful and glad for how i see how God change me and my thoughts, HIS WORK IS PERFECT!!! AMEN!
I do not have to say this, but you know WELL!!! I love you as much as God wll allow, and as much as God permits. And you know how much God loves me! And God just said... Cobus you may call Consumed BROTHER!! So welcome Brother Consumed to the SAME TEAM I am on, May we love God as He is WORTHY...Amen!!

 

[Cobus]

Oh i forgot the most important thing... They had to ask Jesus are you the one... They had to hear the answer from Jesus not John...And that is why they werre sent, to KNOW JESUS IS THE ONE!!!

 

[Consumed]

Cobus, brother, ok John didn't sin but he still fell short, agreed?? Maybe sin was the wrong word I don't know but he still fell short of Jesus' perfect state of mind body and heart. Hmmm back to pray lol what am I saying, doesn't matter in the bigger picture of things. He rose the third day and conquered sin and death. O death where is your sting.......