Should a Certain Amount of Debt Prevent A Person from Marrying? How Should It Be Handled?

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

I can't confirm how accurate these numbers are because this was just a quick web search, and I can't tell you what the average age is that would be associated with these numbers.

But if Google is to be believed, the average American's debts look something like this:

Average American Credit Card Debt: $9,260.00
Average American Student Loan Balance: $37,338.00
Average American Auto Loan Balance: $20,987.00


Grand Total: $67,585.00


So if an average American man and woman with the average amount of debt were to get married, they might possibly be looking at about $135,170.00 worth of debt -- right as they say, "I do." Some of this might be included in the credit card debt, but what about additional medical bills a person might have and/or family expenses (children from previous marriages, etc.)? And the numbers keep climbing higher every year.

Even as Christians, statistics still show that money is always at the top of the list of reasons as to why many people divorce. Now of course, our faith in God should ALWAYS be above money.

But I have to be honest -- I can't imagine what it must be like to start a brand-new life with someone when it comes with the immense pressure of a 6-figure debt right off the bat. Then again, each person was dealing with their own debts individually, so maybe now it will be a relief to have someone else to tackle it with -- even if it means double or more the amount.

How does debt affect Christian singles in their dating life/search for a spouse?

* Does debt ever cause you to withdraw from dating -- whether because you don't want to put your debts onto someone else, or because you don't want to take on anyone else's debt but your own?

* What is the line between going ahead, getting married, and "trusting that God will work everything out," vs. holding off getting married or not marrying at all because of extreme debt? And how do you know when to make which choice?

* If someone told you they had over $60,000 in debt, would it affect your decision of whether or not to date or eventually marry them? Would it depend on how much debt you yourself owed?

* What experiences have you had or have seen regarding this? Did you or someone you know marry anyway, despite large debts? How did it go? Or did you wait and try to get some of them paid down first? What happened?

* What would be your advice to couples who want to marry, but are facing enormous amounts of debt? Should they wait, or go ahead and marry, trusting that God will help them pay?



Please don't misunderstand. I am NOT saying in any way that we should somehow let money guide our decisions rather than God.

But even the Bible talks about having solid foundations to build our lives upon, and I know that for me, I would be very cautious about getting into such a situation without a lot of prayer, counsel, and action (having an active plan of how to pay the debts down.) All the prayer in the world isn't going to give us peace of mind if we have bill collectors hounding us 24/7.

And for people who have not experienced this first hand, maybe you've seen this happen with your own parents or family members.

I would really like to hear some honest accounts of how these situations were handled, and how people are approaching this today.

 

[MsMediator]

I would be okay with certain types of debts such as school or auto loans (assuming auto loan is a reasonable amount). I really can't blame someone if he has high student loan debt (unless he has multiple Master's degrees, etc.); just looking at people I know who have large student loan debt I don't think they got guidance from anyone including their parents on the huge weight of taking large loans. Seventeen/eighteen year olds don't fully grasp large student loans in the beginning until they have to start paying for it later. Credit card debt (such as regular visa cards, store cards, etc.) is more worrisome as that could indicate money management issues. I would be concerned if during the dating process the individual indicated that he would want me to help/cover his debt. I prefer someone who says up front he will pay his own debt, even though I might help out a bit later if I have extra funds. I am sure a guy would also prefer the same of me, where I take responsibility for my own debt even though he may be willing to help.

As you mentioned there other types of debt such as medical debt and paying for a child. If someone has large medical debt because of having no insurance, I would find that irresponsible and that would be a turn off. Especially nowadays, health insurance is more affordable with subsidies if one is lower income. If one is middle/higher income but just doesn't want to pay for health insurance (decides to take the risk), they could at least get the cheapest plan available. Nevertheless, one can still have some medical debt because they cannot pay out-of-pocket costs but that is more understandable. Most all insurances have maximum out of pocket limits, meaning a person would not be responsible for costs after $10K for example, but that is still much better than having tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical debt. Paying for kids may turn out to be a life long commitment, including college and afterwards. I haven't thought/considered this far about partnering with someone with kids, however he would really have to show he has his financial affairs in order. I wouldn't mind helping to pay for stepkids if that feels natural (and if they are young and I bonded with them), but this is something he and the child's mother have to take responsibility.

Another question is, because a person has large debt, does that assume he has no savings, not contributing to retirement, etc. It is not unusual to pay off large debt on a monthly basis but still save for other goals, etc. Personally, I would not let large debt dissuade me (also, in the unfortunate case of divorce, I do not believe I would be responsible for pre-marital debt). I would prefer to keep finances legally separate as much as possible (separate credit cards, etc.).

 

[Lanolin]

I dont know if debt is a great thing to have, whether you are married or single.
I would think if you had debt it would always concern you whether you were looking for a spouse or not.

Then again I am not a banker so wouldnt give great financial advice on here. I would just advice whoever has this problem to learn how to budget and live within their means.

Obviously some people dont really know how do do that. But I would be a bit suss if someone always had access to easy money and they didnt appear to do any work!

 

[Lanolin]

Jacob was in debt seven years to his Uncle Laban before he could marry (cousin) Rachel. However Laban did give Jacob sister Leah first. in total 14 years labour.

 

[Lynx]

Shoot, I really DO have a boring life. No loans or debts. If I do get a car, it's an old one for less than two grand, that I can pay off in a year or so.

$67,585 would give me heartburn...

Now I wonder who the poor guy is who has enough debt to offset my $0. Bet he doesn't sleep very well.

HOWEVER:

I also haven't had anything really bad happen to me. Yet. I might suffer something next week and suddenly have a huge debt. You never know.

As for how that affects dating: If I met a lady I wanted to date and she had a lot of debt, my first questions would be how did it accrue and how is it being handled? Did she get a liberal arts degree? Is she still spending seven bucks a day at starbucks? (Or around here it's more like nine bucks a day for a "loaded tea" that is really just flavored water with a load of caffeine powder.) Or did the debt come from something sensible and/or unavoidable, and she's working hard to pay it down from a much larger balance it used to be?

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Hey Everyone,

I can't confirm how accurate these numbers are because this was just a quick web search, and I can't tell you what the average age is that would be associated with these numbers.

But if Google is to be believed, the average American's debts look something like this:

Average American Credit Card Debt: $9,260.00
Average American Student Loan Balance: $37,338.00
Average American Auto Loan Balance: $20,987.00


Grand Total: $67,585.00


So if an average American man and woman with the average amount of debt were to get married, they might possibly be looking at about $135,170.00 worth of debt -- right as they say, "I do." Some of this might be included in the credit card debt, but what about additional medical bills a person might have and/or family expenses (children from previous marriages, etc.)? And the numbers keep climbing higher every year.

Even as Christians, statistics still show that money is always at the top of the list of reasons as to why many people divorce. Now of course, our faith in God should ALWAYS be above money.

But I have to be honest -- I can't imagine what it must be like to start a brand-new life with someone when it comes with the immense pressure of a 6-figure debt right off the bat. Then again, each person was dealing with their own debts individually, so maybe now it will be a relief to have someone else to tackle it with -- even if it means double or more the amount.

How does debt affect Christian singles in their dating life/search for a spouse?

* Does debt ever cause you to withdraw from dating -- whether because you don't want to put your debts onto someone else, or because you don't want to take on anyone else's debt but your own?

* What is the line between going ahead, getting married, and "trusting that God will work everything out," vs. holding off getting married or not marrying at all because of extreme debt? And how do you know when to make which choice?

* If someone told you they had over $60,000 in debt, would it affect your decision of whether or not to date or eventually marry them? Would it depend on how much debt you yourself owed?

* What experiences have you had or have seen regarding this? Did you or someone you know marry anyway, despite large debts? How did it go? Or did you wait and try to get some of them paid down first? What happened?

* What would be your advice to couples who want to marry, but are facing enormous amounts of debt? Should they wait, or go ahead and marry, trusting that God will help them pay?



Please don't misunderstand. I am NOT saying in any way that we should somehow let money guide our decisions rather than God.

But even the Bible talks about having solid foundations to build our lives upon, and I know that for me, I would be very cautious about getting into such a situation without a lot of prayer, counsel, and action (having an active plan of how to pay the debts down.) All the prayer in the world isn't going to give us peace of mind if we have bill collectors hounding us 24/7.

And for people who have not experienced this first hand, maybe you've seen this happen with your own parents or family members.

I would really like to hear some honest accounts of how these situations were handled, and how people are approaching this today.

This is an important topic.

The initial numbers you posted from the search left out the biggest debt by far. That is home "ownership" then medical expenses. (I reread your post and missed that you Did mention medical.)
Typical loans put buyers in servitude/ literal slavery to the banks for a large part of their lives. Think of a 30 year loan plus exorbitant interest. 30 YEARS for a roof over your head!!
If a slave is injured or laid off, they lose all of that part of life, tens of thousands of hours hard labor, if they can't quickly find a stranger to purchase their debt.

Then they take into account the tens off thousands of dollars paid to insurance companies and crooked hospitals just to do that which was normal and free throughout history. People these days base how many children on the ability to afford them. I have no idea what hospitals charge for surgically removing the baby (I know it's called a C section.) Why surgery to give birth to a child? Usually so the doctor and hospital will make more money. Let's not fon't forget the pediatrician visits, etc. They want you to know that they are the experts and they are the only ones that can measure, weigh and poison the children with injections.
That costs money, especially when you end up with physically and brain damaged children from the wellness visits. That costs more time, money and stress; however dutifully parents make those doctors rich.

Those are the biggest expenses.
Young adults are taught to be promiscuous until the land a big fish with a lot of money like a doctor or lawyer. I grew up with a lot of doctors and lawyer friends. They are Not a happy lot. They have more personal problems and health issues than the average person and die young too on average. Yes, there are christian lawyers, but they are the most miserable of all from what I've seen.

That's the "American Dream" in a very small nutshell. I've studied societal and Biblical sociology since I got saved in order to learn these things. I looked around, even as a small child and thought, there must be a better way.
There is. 📖🙂👍

 

[Kaylz]

It's something that I haven't considered to be honest. For myself the only debt that I have is my mortgage and even that was done prayerfully and methodically. I've always wanted a house of my own but didn't want to buy until I was absolutely debt free. So once I reached that goal and saved enough for my down payment I was ready for the Lord to show me the house that He had for me.

Honestly, I'd really have to seek the Lord for His wisdom and discernment because I wouldn't want to pass up on someone just for that reason solely. I'd also have to take into consideration other things like what kind of debt it was, their plan or steps if any to work towards paying it off, spending habits etc.

But all in all if everything checks out and the Lord is confirming this potential union. Then I wouldn't have a problem with it, his debt is mine and we'd work towards it together. I'd be handling the finances however lol.

Hey Everyone,

I can't confirm how accurate these numbers are because this was just a quick web search, and I can't tell you what the average age is that would be associated with these numbers.

But if Google is to be believed, the average American's debts look something like this:

Average American Credit Card Debt: $9,260.00
Average American Student Loan Balance: $37,338.00
Average American Auto Loan Balance: $20,987.00


Grand Total: $67,585.00


So if an average American man and woman with the average amount of debt were to get married, they might possibly be looking at about $135,170.00 worth of debt -- right as they say, "I do." Some of this might be included in the credit card debt, but what about additional medical bills a person might have and/or family expenses (children from previous marriages, etc.)? And the numbers keep climbing higher every year.

Even as Christians, statistics still show that money is always at the top of the list of reasons as to why many people divorce. Now of course, our faith in God should ALWAYS be above money.

But I have to be honest -- I can't imagine what it must be like to start a brand-new life with someone when it comes with the immense pressure of a 6-figure debt right off the bat. Then again, each person was dealing with their own debts individually, so maybe now it will be a relief to have someone else to tackle it with -- even if it means double or more the amount.

How does debt affect Christian singles in their dating life/search for a spouse?

* Does debt ever cause you to withdraw from dating -- whether because you don't want to put your debts onto someone else, or because you don't want to take on anyone else's debt but your own?

* What is the line between going ahead, getting married, and "trusting that God will work everything out," vs. holding off getting married or not marrying at all because of extreme debt? And how do you know when to make which choice?

* If someone told you they had over $60,000 in debt, would it affect your decision of whether or not to date or eventually marry them? Would it depend on how much debt you yourself owed?

* What experiences have you had or have seen regarding this? Did you or someone you know marry anyway, despite large debts? How did it go? Or did you wait and try to get some of them paid down first? What happened?

* What would be your advice to couples who want to marry, but are facing enormous amounts of debt? Should they wait, or go ahead and marry, trusting that God will help them pay?



Please don't misunderstand. I am NOT saying in any way that we should somehow let money guide our decisions rather than God.

But even the Bible talks about having solid foundations to build our lives upon, and I know that for me, I would be very cautious about getting into such a situation without a lot of prayer, counsel, and action (having an active plan of how to pay the debts down.) All the prayer in the world isn't going to give us peace of mind if we have bill collectors hounding us 24/7.

And for people who have not experienced this first hand, maybe you've seen this happen with your own parents or family members.

I would really like to hear some honest accounts of how these situations were handled, and how people are approaching this today.

 

[Niki7]

Average American Credit Card Debt: $9,260.00
Average American Student Loan Balance: $37,338.00
Average American Auto Loan Balance: $20,987.00


Grand Total: $67,585.00

Shriek. Now add the mortgage for those who pay one (probably most people who have their own house. ) Probably could add 100k or more.

 

[Niki7]

* Does debt ever cause you to withdraw from dating -- whether because you don't want to put your debts onto someone else, or because you don't want to take on anyone else's debt but your own?

* What is the line between going ahead, getting married, and "trusting that God will work everything out," vs. holding off getting married or not marrying at all because of extreme debt? And how do you know when to make which choice?

* If someone told you they had over $60,000 in debt, would it affect your decision of whether or not to date or eventually marry them? Would it depend on how much debt you yourself owed?

* What experiences have you had or have seen regarding this? Did you or someone you know marry anyway, despite large debts? How did it go? Or did you wait and try to get some of them paid down first? What happened?

* What would be your advice to couples who want to marry, but are facing enormous amounts of debt? Should they wait, or go ahead and marry, trusting that God will help them pay?

Well I am already married and when we got married, there really was hardly any debt, but one crash in 2008 and 2 yrs of the so called pandemic, has left us indebted. No credit card debt, but car payment and mortgage.

1) I would not marry someone in extreme debt. IMO, you would be looking at an embedded argument that comes around every time it's time to pay a bill. There is also the fact some people cannot handle money so you may always struggle

2) See above. How does a single person rack up 60,000 worth of debt?

3) Don't know. Never went there in the first place but debt does not go away by itself nor vanish because you love someone

4) I don't know. Did God get them in this huge debt? I think it would be time to see a financial consultant and a marriage counsellor...one who bases their counselling on scripture. A little preparation could go a long way. Love may be blind, but sooner or later you are going to get your sight back

 

[JohnDB]

It's not debt as much as it is debt to income ratio....

A person making 60k/yr in 70k of consumer debt....yuck!

But same debt with 200k yr of income?

 

[Tall_Timbers]

The borrower is a slave to the lender. I've lived pretty much debt free all of my life. My mom did a good job teaching me about managing finances. I'm married and my wife paid off her $2000 or so in debt before we tied the knot. After getting to know a person with a lot of debt, I probably would not be falling in love with them, not because of the debt, but because of the types of differences between us that allowed that debt.

Getting school loans, IMO, is idiotic. One might have to burn the candle at both ends, but if one wants a college degree you can do it without debt. I did and many do. Buying a car with a loan costs an awful lot more than paying cash for it. Most people don't even understand that. Speaking generally, schools don't teach money management and few teachers would be qualified to teach on the subject if that was taught.

I lived below my means most of my life, paid cash for everything and now have a very comfortable retirement. I didn't miss out on anything important by living below my means... The borrower is a slave to the lender.

 

[seoulsearch]

This is an important topic.
The initial numbers you posted from the search left out the biggest debt by far. That is home "ownership" then medical expenses. (I reread your post and missed that you Did mention medical.)
Typical loans put buyers in servitude/ literal slavery to the banks for a large part of their lives. Think of a 30 year loan plus exorbitant interest. 30 YEARS for a roof over your head!!
If a slave is injured or laid off, they lose all of that part of life, tens of thousands of hours hard labor, if they can't quickly find a stranger to purchase their debt.

Then they take into account the tens off thousands of dollars paid to insurance companies and crooked hospitals just to do that which was normal and free throughout history. People these days base how many children on the ability to afford them. I have no idea what hospitals charge for surgically removing the baby (I know it's called a C section.) Why surgery to give birth to a child? Usually so the doctor and hospital will make more money. Let's not fon't forget the pediatrician visits, etc. They want you to know that they are the experts and they are the only ones that can measure, weigh and poison the children with injections.
That costs money, especially when you end up with physically and brain damaged children from the wellness visits. That costs more time, money and stress; however dutifully parents make those doctors rich.

Those are the biggest expenses.
Young adults are taught to be promiscuous until the land a big fish with a lot of money like a doctor or lawyer. I grew up with a lot of doctors and lawyer friends. They are Not a happy lot. They have more personal problems and health issues than the average person and die young too on average. Yes, there are christian lawyers, but they are the most miserable of all from what I've seen.

That's the "American Dream" in a very small nutshell. I've studied societal and Biblical sociology since I got saved in order to learn these things. I looked around, even as a small child and thought, there must be a better way.
There is. 📖🙂👍

In the original version of how I wrote the OP, I had included (after mentioning medical and family debt) the statement, "And this doesn't even include the consideration of where or how the couple is going to live (buying a house vs. renting.)"

I decided to take that out just because nearly $70,000 was already a staggering number -- but I most definitely understand what you're saying. Google says the average American used home price is about $380,000, and that isn't including the interest.

I can't imagine being at the altar and having the pastor say, "'Til death do you part -- you may now kiss the bride -- along with the half-a-million-dollar-debt you are both now chained to until you die."

The other reason I decided to omit the estimated housing cost is because my original intent for this thread was as a companion piece/sequel to the "By What Age Should Someone Have Bought a House" thread, so I was thinking more of a young couple that was just starting out. And if they were indeed starting out with almost $70,000 in debt together, renting would most likely be their only choice. But yes, the cost owed on a home would be a major part of the picture if applicable.

I find it scary and unnerving that people are never taught how to manage money and are pretty much handed over to relying on the government. I remember having to take an economics class in college and the professor himself taught that with all credit or loans you took out, all you had to do was figure out what you could pay in minimum payments.

He even gave the example of having a credit card and said it didn't matter if you charged a couple thousand dollars you didn't have every month on it -- just as long as you could pay the minimum requirement every month, you were fine. And the unspoken but clear reasoning behind this was, "When you die, your debt will become someone else's problem, so go right ahead, because eventually, you won't have to worry about it."

I can't imagine living that way. But on the other hand, things like housing and education have become so unaffordable that most people probably don't feel they have any other choice.

Thanks very much for your input!

As you mentioned there other types of debt such as medical debt and paying for a child. If someone has large medical debt because of having no insurance, I would find that irresponsible and that would be a turn off. Especially nowadays, health insurance is more affordable with subsidies if one is lower income. If one is middle/higher income but just doesn't want to pay for health insurance (decides to take the risk), they could at least get the cheapest plan available. Nevertheless, one can still have some medical debt because they cannot pay out-of-pocket costs but that is more understandable. Most all insurances have maximum out of pocket limits, meaning a person would not be responsible for costs after $10K for example, but that is still much better than having tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical debt. Paying for kids may turn out to be a life long commitment, including college and afterwards. I haven't thought/considered this far about partnering with someone with kids, however he would really have to show he has his financial affairs in order. I wouldn't mind helping to pay for stepkids if that feels natural (and if they are young and I bonded with them), but this is something he and the child's mother have to take responsibility.

Another question is, because a person has large debt, does that assume he has no savings, not contributing to retirement, etc. It is not unusual to pay off large debt on a monthly basis but still save for other goals, etc. Personally, I would not let large debt dissuade me (also, in the unfortunate case of divorce, I do not believe I would be responsible for pre-marital debt). I would prefer to keep finances legally separate as much as possible (separate credit cards, etc.).

Health insurance and medical bills are unfortunately a very slippery slope. I know a lot of people who would literally have to choose between paying for health insurance vs. paying for food and shelter, so they don't buy it.

I had insurance through a job a few years ago (and since it was Blue Cross, which is known and taken just about everywhere in the USA, I thought I had all my bases covered.)

I quickly found out that there is an awful lot you can't rely on insurance to cover (at least, in my own experience.) I wound up having to have a minor surgery (suspicious polyps that thankfully didn't turn out to be anything,) but over the next year, I was billed about $7000 in out-of-pocket costs. Then there was the year when I needed $10,000 worth of dental work (after watching my Grandma go through some spine-tingling reconstruction work, I decided I couldn't put it off.) I had insurance at the time, but it only covered so much and I nearly had a heart attack when I opened the bills.

I'm particularly stressed out right now because I have to meet with a counselor regarding insurance. I had been able to get subsidies before but a lot of that aid is being cut out due to post-covid cutbacks.

One estimate said it might cost me $1000 per month -- who on earth can afford that and still be able to pay for a place to live and groceries? And of course, this again isn't counting what might have to be paid out of pocket. If it does cost that much, I'm going to have some tough decisions to make. Some of the bare-bones plans are hardly worth having and have so many stipulations that I might have to debate on taking a chance and hoping I qualify the next year.

One of my biggest life struggles is always trying to find a balance. If people always had to try to save up enough money to actually live life (get married, have kids, etc.,) no one would ever do it. We know we are to trust God in everything, the Bible also says that even the builder sits down and estimates the cost before moving forward. So how much is cautious planning, and how much is fear, when God tells us not to be afraid?

And yet, I've known too many people who "took a leap of faith" and have wound up in terrible situations.

The reason I bring up these discussions is because I'm want to know what other people are doing when it comes to finding a truce between both living out our faith, and also living in reality.

 

[seoulsearch]

2) See above. How does a single person rack up 60,000 worth of debt?

Unfortunately, it's not hard to do, especially if one is in college. A lot of my friends were also having to charge their living expenses and books on credit cards, because they didn't have any other money.

Google says the average cost of a 4-year college education is $102,828.

You also pretty much have to have a car in most areas, and most people I know have some kind of medical debt. A lot of people have also gone through divorce or abandonment, etc. that's left them paying legal fees out the nose. Even more if children are involved.

Who would have guessed that just to live is so expensive?

It can be downright depressing.

 

[seoulsearch]

It's not debt as much as it is debt to income ratio.... A person making 60k/yr in 70k of consumer debt....yuck! But same debt with 200k yr of income?

Now I'm tempted to write a poll asking how many people here earn $200K+ a year.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

In the original version of how I wrote the OP, I had included (after mentioning medical and family debt) the statement, "And this doesn't even include the consideration of where or how the couple is going to live (buying a house vs. renting.)"

I decided to take that out just because nearly $70,000 was already a staggering number -- but I most definitely understand what you're saying. Google says the average American used home price is about $380,000, and that isn't including the interest.

I can't imagine being at the altar and having the pastor say, "'Til death do you part -- you may now kiss the bride -- along with the half-a-million-dollar-debt you are both now chained to until you die."

The other reason I decided to omit the estimated housing cost is because my original intent for this thread was as a companion piece/sequel to the "By What Age Should Someone Have Bought a House" thread, so I was thinking more of a young couple that was just starting out. And if they were indeed starting out with almost $70,000 in debt together, renting would most likely be their only choice. But yes, the cost owed on a home would be a major part of the picture if applicable.

I find it scary and unnerving that people are never taught how to manage money and are pretty much handed over to relying on the government. I remember having to take an economics class in college and the professor himself taught that with all credit or loans you took out, all you had to do was figure out what you could pay in minimum payments.

He even gave the example of having a credit card and said it didn't matter if you charged a couple thousand dollars you didn't have every month on it -- just as long as you could pay the minimum requirement every month, you were fine. And the unspoken but clear reasoning behind this was, "When you die, your debt will become someone else's problem, so go right ahead, because eventually, you won't have to worry about it."

I can't imagine living that way. But on the other hand, things like housing and education have become so unaffordable that most people probably don't feel they have any other choice.

Thanks very much for your input!





Health insurance and medical bills are unfortunately a very slippery slope. I know a lot of people who would literally have to choose between paying for health insurance vs. paying for food and shelter, so they don't buy it.

I had insurance through a job a few years ago (and since it was Blue Cross, which is known and taken just about everywhere in the USA, I thought I had all my bases covered.)

I quickly found out that there is an awful lot you can't rely on insurance to cover (at least, in my own experience.) I wound up having to have a minor surgery (suspicious polyps that thankfully didn't turn out to be anything,) but over the next year, I was billed about $7000 in out-of-pocket costs. Then there was the year when I needed $10,000 worth of dental work (after watching my Grandma go through some spine-tingling reconstruction work, I decided I couldn't put it off.) I had insurance at the time, but it only covered so much and I nearly had a heart attack when I opened the bills.

I'm particularly stressed out right now because I have to meet with a counselor regarding insurance. I had been able to get subsidies before but a lot of that aid is being cut out due to post-covid cutbacks.

One estimate said it might cost me $1000 per month -- who on earth can afford that and still be able to pay for a place to live and groceries? And of course, this again isn't counting what might have to be paid out of pocket. If it does cost that much, I'm going to have some tough decisions to make. Some of the bare-bones plans are hardly worth having and have so many stipulations that I might have to debate on taking a chance and hoping I qualify the next year.

One of my biggest life struggles is always trying to find a balance. If people always had to try to save up enough money to actually live life (get married, have kids, etc.,) no one would ever do it. We know we are to trust God in everything, the Bible also says that even the builder sits down and estimates the cost before moving forward. So how much is cautious planning, and how much is fear, when God tells us not to be afraid?

And yet, I've known too many people who "took a leap of faith" and have wound up in terrible situations.

The reason I bring up these discussions is because I'm want to know what other people are doing when it comes to finding a truce between both living out our faith, and also living in reality.

Many college professors are about as worthless as the contents of a waste basket.
Most colleges are a scam too. I earned degrees at two and am not against education. However, they are not for everyone. IMHO, the college scene is a huge cause of divorce. It doesn't even have to do with debt.

I appreciate your insight.
I'm very blessed to not be under those slave debts other than taxes. The Lord has been very kind to me. Everything I own, including myself actually belongs to Him, paid off free and clear. James 1:17

Thank You Lord!

 

[seoulsearch]

The borrower is a slave to the lender. I've lived pretty much debt free all of my life. My mom did a good job teaching me about managing finances. I'm married and my wife paid off her $2000 or so in debt before we tied the knot. After getting to know a person with a lot of debt, I probably would not be falling in love with them, not because of the debt, but because of the types of differences between us that allowed that debt.

Getting school loans, IMO, is idiotic. One might have to burn the candle at both ends, but if one wants a college degree you can do it without debt. I did and many do. Buying a car with a loan costs an awful lot more than paying cash for it. Most people don't even understand that. Speaking generally, schools don't teach money management and few teachers would be qualified to teach on the subject if that was taught.

I lived below my means most of my life, paid cash for everything and now have a very comfortable retirement. I didn't miss out on anything important by living below my means... The borrower is a slave to the lender.

Many college professors are about as worthless as the contents of a waste basket.
Most colleges are a scam too. I earned degrees at two and am not against education. However, they are not for everyone. IMHO, the college scene is a huge cause of divorce. It doesn't even have to do with debt.

I appreciate your insight.
I'm very blessed to not be under those slave debts other than taxes. The Lord has been very kind to me. Everything I own, including myself actually belongs to Him, paid off free and clear. James 1:17

I personally think that people like you fine gentlemen should be the ones teaching classes on how to get an education without going into debt.

The Bible says the worker is worth his wages...

I'm just thinking of how beneficial it would be for any prospective college student to pay whatever fee you might charge to learn how to do what you have done before ever paying a dime to an institution.

 

[Niki7]

Unfortunately, it's not hard to do, especially if one is in college. A lot of my friends were also having to charge their living expenses and books on credit cards, because they didn't have any other money.

Google says the average cost of a 4-year college education is $102,828.

You also pretty much have to have a car in most areas, and most people I know have some kind of medical debt. A lot of people have also gone through divorce or abandonment, etc. that's left them paying legal fees out the nose. Even more if children are involved.

Who would have guessed that just to live is so expensive?

It can be downright depressing.

ahhh...right. Did not think of college or university. I'm some years past that but you are right! I have a better understanding of your questions now

 

[seoulsearch]

It's not debt as much as it is debt to income ratio....

A person making 60k/yr in 70k of consumer debt....yuck!

But same debt with 200k yr of income?

Now I'm tempted to write a poll asking how many people here earn $200K+ a year.

Heh heh.

Poor John probably thought I was just kidding when I talked about writing a poll asking who here makes $200K a year.

Surprise!

 

[JohnDB]

Now I'm tempted to write a poll asking how many people here earn $200K+ a year.

Judging by the manner most people on this forum communicate....a few but not many. Higher incomes are closely related to communication skills. (Managing all the "little people" more effectively) Then with the wealth from the earned income comes the higher finance skills and knowledge....especially how to manage such things.

Money is a potentially addictive tool. Kinda like heroine. Painkillers can be useful or can be abused. And how people deal with their finances is a huge insight into their behaviors.

Borrowing $200,000 on education for a job that pays $60k/yr with a fresh diploma...not a good idea. Doctors will spend that and more for their diplomas....but they usually clear well over $200K-300/yr fresh diploma and all....and they work a LOT of hours.

Lots of people have spent fortunes on law degrees just to become glorified accountants. (It happens more than you think)
I don't even want to discuss the number of Seminary Degrees that have not produced a pastor. Then there's all the people who started but never finished their post secondary educations. That's a whopping huge percentage of the population right there.

 

[Lanolin]

It is scary how cost of living expenses are always rising.

I think thats parts of the reason why people leave their country/homeland to get away from their debts, and its cheaper to live somewhere else, and they might be paid more money too. If you move, the debt collectors seemingly cant find you.

(I am not an actual debt collector, but debt collection is part of my job in a library...! )

For me I tend to forgive a lot of debt if that happens depending on situation, if they cant pay upfront I make them work/do jobs for me.


The way money is taught in schools is that it is not taught...we didnt even learn about taxes in maths class
or compound interest. I didnt take economics so I missed that part of education in high school. Banks are not going to tell you the full story. I later did a course in money management because I missed out in school, was too busy studying bursary subjects. I didnt really havea choice they streamed according to ability and I was expected to go to university...when your parents offer to pay you cant refuse that gift. If I had to pay my own tertiary education I would have gone and found a job first. I did actually pay for my further education on top of a bachelors and worked and studied, got reimbursed or gained scholarships.

The bank of mum and dad is first port of call. if you dont have that, you are really at someone elses mercy. like a bank or loan shark.

in terms of marrying if a gal is without education her only asset she would have to offer a man is her womb to have children who can grow up to be child slaves (!) and help out the family business. They dont call it labour for nothing. Also you change your surname usually after you marry so debt collectors may not find you. Either way EVERYONE is expected to work to pay off their debts theres no way round that.