God wills your steps, knowing you are always saved

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Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#181
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#181
brightfame52 said:
Stop playing dum, who is responsible for saving the people God wants to be saved.
Click to expand...
I'm not playing dumb I am wondering if perhaps I am not really understanding what your trying to get it. I was under the impression we were discussing the matter on whether their was a choice in salvation or not you asked who is responsible for saving those he would have saved he is the source the way the truth and light no one comes to father except through him he is the author and finnisher the first and the last salvation only comes through him

But if that is not what your asking when say responsible are talking about the responsibility we have to save the lost?
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#182
Nov 21, 2020
6,336
557
113
#182
Blain said:
I'm not playing dumb I am wondering if perhaps I am not really understanding what your trying to get it. I was under the impression we were discussing the matter on whether their was a choice in salvation or not you asked who is responsible for saving those he would have saved he is the source the way the truth and light no one comes to father except through him he is the author and finnisher the first and the last salvation only comes through him

But if that is not what your asking when say responsible are talking about the responsibility we have to save the lost?
Click to expand...
Listen, Does God desire salvation for people here according to this verse ? Yes or No

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#183
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#183
[/QUOTE]
brightfame52 said:
Listen, Does God desire salvation for people here according to this verse ? Yes or No

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Click to expand...
Look I am trying to gain understanding here your not mak8ing much sense to me you use this one verse but only in that one translation which would imply that he would save all those those who he would save that he alone decides and in a way this true because he was very clear he desires all to be saved but you are just using that one translation disregarding the fact that everyone other translation doesn't use that word in the way that your trying to use it and the fact you cannot see this problem just says that you are willing to use a verse as long as it fits your narrative your not even willing to consider how the word is used in other translations or even the fact that if we were to look at it in the original language it was written even I do not how profound that would but it would be a game changer

I do not say or ask anything of you if not for the sole purpose of trying to better understand where you are coming from I am in this to prove or disprove anything our own views and understand clearly do not mix well so I am trying to first understand exactly where you are coming from what your view and understanding on salvation I could have easily acted like I was right and you were wrong but I specifally asked you and your response was I was playing dumb

While anyone else for the most part would not be willing to place themselves as being playing dumb most other people would be so focused on who is right and wrong who has the truth who doesn't but I am still trying to understand where I hope your not coming from I have a good idea on your stance but I am trying to make some kind of understanding here not the usual arguing and useless debating I am trying to fully understand what your saying I am not dismissing it I am bot using scripture to oppose you I am a very open book with me what you see is what what you get even if I am in the wrong I find it stupid to hide my intentions or meanings behind things when everyone shows who they really are online becuase the protection of non direct screen only thing allows people and almost 100 percent if someone says something online that is pretty much their heart

So I am being open and honest here I am willing to be seen as foolish if need be but I am not here to play games I am not here to prove or disprove what I see as truth or what others do I am here to actually learn to grow to build encourage to plant the seeds of the kingdom no matter how small

But if you just keep avoiding my question when most others would rebuke or reject your stance or anything you said I am here not trying to prove I am right not trying to disprove you I am literally one of the rare few who just give up their argument and instead try to first understand the person they are debating with

Your being given something rare here I am wanting to know exactly your stance your understanding your view why you believe it ect.
Maybe I disagree with that doesn't make you or me wrong it just meaNS THERE IS CLEARLY A UNITY needed IN THE TRUTH THE SPIRIT AND THE HEART OF god and us. also I apologize for the caps my eyes are really bad today.

Regardless I ask you if you believe there is a choice or not if some were chosen and predestined to be saved while everyone else is left in the dust basically predestination pre chosen to not only be save but reign with Christ because believe being saved is no minor thing the gravity of it the the gravity of the absolute nightmare of the cost of being left out or refusing it it isn't a matter to discussed or debated without having full revereance of how important and how impactful it is.


I don't know how many who have said they have been to heaven or hell but I know I myself have had glimpses of heaven but even though I saved I have actually been to hell it is a real place you wouldn't even know you were in the spiritual realm because it is that real.

People on hell people talk about it and to many it is more of a subject topic or idea they have no idea the true gravity and real seriousness of the lost and saved how absolute heart breaking and how you cannot help but weep so intensely for those bound in hell how you wish so badly that you could just by simply desiring it make it where such people could finally have rest and simply be in his arms simply be loved and filled with him simply because they are them

But even so I am not naive enough to believe that hell is not real or eternal even though I wish more than anything I am wrong I even to this day pray for one soul I met there who was truly repentant he just sat there and took everything saying he deserved it.

You cannot imagine what it is like to see that how it will absolute shatter you breaking heart sadness these things don't even begin to describe it.

So this isnt trivial me this isn't merely a topic or subject to me this is not a game and I am dead serious about this there is a reason I am for the kingdom for bringing others closer to Christ for bringing others to the truth for the church even if I in the process mess up or speak wrong

I am not here to argueor prove or disprove and any doctrine people mught have that they wantr argue is not even on the radar how can we discuss and debate salvation without understanding the gravity of which we speak the cost of it I mean the really really impossibly mind bending cost
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#184
Nov 21, 2020
6,336
557
113
#184
Look I am trying to gain understanding here your not mak8ing much sense to me you use this one verse but only in that one translation which would imply that he would save all those those who he would save that he alone decides and in a way this true because he was very clear he desires all to be saved but you are just using that one translation disregarding the fact that everyone other translation doesn't use that word in the way that your trying to use it and the fact you cannot see this problem just says that you are willing to use a verse as long as it fits your narrative your not even willing to consider how the word is used in other translations or even the fact that if we were to look at it in the original language it was written even I do not how profound that would but it would be a game changer

I do not say or ask anything of you if not for the sole purpose of trying to better understand where you are coming from I am in this to prove or disprove anything our own views and understand clearly do not mix well so I am trying to first understand exactly where you are coming from what your view and understanding on salvation I could have easily acted like I was right and you were wrong but I specifally asked you and your response was I was playing dumb

While anyone else for the most part would not be willing to place themselves as being playing dumb most other people would be so focused on who is right and wrong who has the truth who doesn't but I am still trying to understand where I hope your not coming from I have a good idea on your stance but I am trying to make some kind of understanding here not the usual arguing and useless debating I am trying to fully understand what your saying I am not dismissing it I am bot using scripture to oppose you I am a very open book with me what you see is what what you get even if I am in the wrong I find it stupid to hide my intentions or meanings behind things when everyone shows who they really are online becuase the protection of non direct screen only thing allows people and almost 100 percent if someone says something online that is pretty much their heart

So I am being open and honest here I am willing to be seen as foolish if need be but I am not here to play games I am not here to prove or disprove what I see as truth or what others do I am here to actually learn to grow to build encourage to plant the seeds of the kingdom no matter how small

But if you just keep avoiding my question when most others would rebuke or reject your stance or anything you said I am here not trying to prove I am right not trying to disprove you I am literally one of the rare few who just give up their argument and instead try to first understand the person they are debating with

Your being given something rare here I am wanting to know exactly your stance your understanding your view why you believe it ect.
Maybe I disagree with that doesn't make you or me wrong it just meaNS THERE IS CLEARLY A UNITY needed IN THE TRUTH THE SPIRIT AND THE HEART OF god and us. also I apologize for the caps my eyes are really bad today.

Regardless I ask you if you believe there is a choice or not if some were chosen and predestined to be saved while everyone else is left in the dust basically predestination pre chosen to not only be save but reign with Christ because believe being saved is no minor thing the gravity of it the the gravity of the absolute nightmare of the cost of being left out or refusing it it isn't a matter to discussed or debated without having full revereance of how important and how impactful it is.


I don't know how many who have said they have been to heaven or hell but I know I myself have had glimpses of heaven but even though I saved I have actually been to hell it is a real place you wouldn't even know you were in the spiritual realm because it is that real.

People on hell people talk about it and to many it is more of a subject topic or idea they have no idea the true gravity and real seriousness of the lost and saved how absolute heart breaking and how you cannot help but weep so intensely for those bound in hell how you wish so badly that you could just by simply desiring it make it where such people could finally have rest and simply be in his arms simply be loved and filled with him simply because they are them

But even so I am not naive enough to believe that hell is not real or eternal even though I wish more than anything I am wrong I even to this day pray for one soul I met there who was truly repentant he just sat there and took everything saying he deserved it.

You cannot imagine what it is like to see that how it will absolute shatter you breaking heart sadness these things don't even begin to describe it.

So this isnt trivial me this isn't merely a topic or subject to me this is not a game and I am dead serious about this there is a reason I am for the kingdom for bringing others closer to Christ for bringing others to the truth for the church even if I in the process mess up or speak wrong

I am not here to argueor prove or disprove and any doctrine people mught have that they wantr argue is not even on the radar how can we discuss and debate salvation without understanding the gravity of which we speak the cost of it I mean the really really impossibly mind bending cost[/QUOTE]

Im going to let this go, you cant answer a simple question that relates to Gods will, desire to save as indicated here 1 Tim 2:4

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Click to expand...
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#185
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#185
brightfame52 said:
Listen, Does God desire salvation for people here according to this verse ? Yes or No

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Click to expand...
The “all men” in the passage includes kings and all that are in authority. Are all kings and all that are in authority saved? Does God want all men to come to the knowledge of the truth?

1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#186
Nov 21, 2020
6,336
557
113
#186
John146 said:
The “all men” in the passage includes kings and all that are in authority. Are all kings and all that are in authority saved? Does God want all men to come to the knowledge of the truth?

1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Click to expand...
Answer the question then.

Does God desire salvation for people here according to this verse ? Yes or No

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#187
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#187
brightfame52 said:
Answer the question then.

Does God desire salvation for people here according to this verse ? Yes or No

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Click to expand...
Yes sir! And come to the knowledge of the truth.
 
Rosemaryx

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
#188
May 3, 2017
3,757
4,120
113
63
#188
brightfame52 said:
Answer the question then.

Does God desire salvation for people here according to this verse ? Yes or No

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Click to expand...
Psalm 3:8
Salvation belongs to the LORD; may Your blessing be on Your people. Selah :)
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#191
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#191
brightfame52 said:
Look I am trying to gain understanding here your not mak8ing much sense to me you use this one verse but only in that one translation which would imply that he would save all those those who he would save that he alone decides and in a way this true because he was very clear he desires all to be saved but you are just using that one translation disregarding the fact that everyone other translation doesn't use that word in the way that your trying to use it and the fact you cannot see this problem just says that you are willing to use a verse as long as it fits your narrative your not even willing to consider how the word is used in other translations or even the fact that if we were to look at it in the original language it was written even I do not how profound that would but it would be a game changer

I do not say or ask anything of you if not for the sole purpose of trying to better understand where you are coming from I am in this to prove or disprove anything our own views and understand clearly do not mix well so I am trying to first understand exactly where you are coming from what your view and understanding on salvation I could have easily acted like I was right and you were wrong but I specifally asked you and your response was I was playing dumb

While anyone else for the most part would not be willing to place themselves as being playing dumb most other people would be so focused on who is right and wrong who has the truth who doesn't but I am still trying to understand where I hope your not coming from I have a good idea on your stance but I am trying to make some kind of understanding here not the usual arguing and useless debating I am trying to fully understand what your saying I am not dismissing it I am bot using scripture to oppose you I am a very open book with me what you see is what what you get even if I am in the wrong I find it stupid to hide my intentions or meanings behind things when everyone shows who they really are online becuase the protection of non direct screen only thing allows people and almost 100 percent if someone says something online that is pretty much their heart

So I am being open and honest here I am willing to be seen as foolish if need be but I am not here to play games I am not here to prove or disprove what I see as truth or what others do I am here to actually learn to grow to build encourage to plant the seeds of the kingdom no matter how small

But if you just keep avoiding my question when most others would rebuke or reject your stance or anything you said I am here not trying to prove I am right not trying to disprove you I am literally one of the rare few who just give up their argument and instead try to first understand the person they are debating with

Your being given something rare here I am wanting to know exactly your stance your understanding your view why you believe it ect.
Maybe I disagree with that doesn't make you or me wrong it just meaNS THERE IS CLEARLY A UNITY needed IN THE TRUTH THE SPIRIT AND THE HEART OF god and us. also I apologize for the caps my eyes are really bad today.

Regardless I ask you if you believe there is a choice or not if some were chosen and predestined to be saved while everyone else is left in the dust basically predestination pre chosen to not only be save but reign with Christ because believe being saved is no minor thing the gravity of it the the gravity of the absolute nightmare of the cost of being left out or refusing it it isn't a matter to discussed or debated without having full revereance of how important and how impactful it is.


I don't know how many who have said they have been to heaven or hell but I know I myself have had glimpses of heaven but even though I saved I have actually been to hell it is a real place you wouldn't even know you were in the spiritual realm because it is that real.

People on hell people talk about it and to many it is more of a subject topic or idea they have no idea the true gravity and real seriousness of the lost and saved how absolute heart breaking and how you cannot help but weep so intensely for those bound in hell how you wish so badly that you could just by simply desiring it make it where such people could finally have rest and simply be in his arms simply be loved and filled with him simply because they are them

But even so I am not naive enough to believe that hell is not real or eternal even though I wish more than anything I am wrong I even to this day pray for one soul I met there who was truly repentant he just sat there and took everything saying he deserved it.

You cannot imagine what it is like to see that how it will absolute shatter you breaking heart sadness these things don't even begin to describe it.

So this isnt trivial me this isn't merely a topic or subject to me this is not a game and I am dead serious about this there is a reason I am for the kingdom for bringing others closer to Christ for bringing others to the truth for the church even if I in the process mess up or speak wrong

I am not here to argueor prove or disprove and any doctrine people mught have that they wantr argue is not even on the radar how can we discuss and debate salvation without understanding the gravity of which we speak the cost of it I mean the really really impossibly mind bending cost
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE] I did answer you it wasn't the answer you wanted you refused to answer me I at least answered your question then I even tried to see where you were coming from I tried to meet you half way and you wouldn't have any of it.

Your motive for being on here isn't shown from what your doing or saying rather what your not willing to do and say.

If your not after the truth of the matter and are not about learning and growing and in discussion with other believers even if they oppose your stance then your just here and not really doing anything but back and forths that seems pointless to me when we could instead be using our time words and influence on here to do the will of God or if your just wanting to debate there are specific forums that are just for such a thing but beware it gets brutal you are going to have come equipped well because these debates are serious and your not going to be able to try to twist scripture or make something try to fit these people know their bible like I myself didn't stand a chance and I actually really respected how I well I was put in my place
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#194
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#194
brightfame52 said:
Dont evade. Is Christ 100% successful in saving everyone His Father wants to be saved ? Yes or No
Click to expand...
Christ is successful. He saves all that come to him. Is his will always done? Unfortunately not. I have failed him over and over.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#195
Nov 21, 2020
6,336
557
113
#195
John146 said:
Christ is successful. He saves all that come to him. Is his will always done? Unfortunately not. I have failed him over and over.
Click to expand...
So Christ saved everyone God wanted to be saved ? 100% None of them lost ?
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#196
Nov 21, 2020
6,336
557
113
#196
john146

Is his will always done? Unfortunately not.
Click to expand...
That sounds like Blasphemy to me,

Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Its also speaking against to Christ , Scripture says the will,desire, pleasure of the Lord prospered in His Hand Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

And you speak against Gods will of purpose, saying it can go unfulfilled ! The word will in 1 Tim 2:4

thelō :

to will, have in mind, intend

  1. to be resolved or determined, to purpose

The same word is used here Acts 18:21

But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

James 4:15

For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

But you allow for others to trump Gods will of purpose, may God have mercy on that Blasphemy !
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#197
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#197
brightfame52 said:
So Christ saved everyone God wanted to be saved ? 100% None of them lost ?
Click to expand...
God saved all who did it his way, through his Son. Man cannot will or run it any other way. There are many who God desires to be saved, but are not. They have refused to do it God's way, through trusting his Son.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#198
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#198
brightfame52 said:
john146



That sounds like Blasphemy to me,

Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Its also speaking against to Christ , Scripture says the will,desire, pleasure of the Lord prospered in His Hand Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

And you speak against Gods will of purpose, saying it can go unfulfilled ! The word will in 1 Tim 2:4

thelō :

to will, have in mind, intend

  1. to be resolved or determined, to purpose

The same word is used here Acts 18:21

But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

James 4:15

For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

But you allow for others to trump Gods will of purpose, may God have mercy on that Blasphemy !
Click to expand...
Answer my question. Do you sin? Is sin part of God's will for you?
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#200
Nov 21, 2020
6,336
557
113
#200
John146 said:
God saved all who did it his way, through his Son. Man cannot will or run it any other way. There are many who God desires to be saved, but are not. They have refused to do it God's way, through trusting his Son.
Click to expand...
So Christ didnt save all who God the Father wanted to be saved ? Is that what you saying ? You are implying Christ came short of the Fathers will to save all whom He wanted saved.
 
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