Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[rogerg]

you need to tell that to brightfame52 ... brightfame52 is the one who said they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners".

I have been trying to get brightfame52 to step away from that lie since he submitted it ... and you're the one who agrees with brightfame52 ... you even gave me a thumbs down at Post 3391 when I asked brightfame52 to acknowledge that his statement is in error. Oh, he's trying to rationalize and cover his error, but he will not admit that it is not okay to "continue being ungodly sinners".

Psalm 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
.

Wow! you got my comment totally wrong. I am saying that there is nothing that can be done to cause one's salvation and I don't know where you got that from. So, cease and desist saying that.
Let me say this again: the only thing necessary for salvation is that God had chosen someone for salvation. There is no contribution to it that man can make. Brightfame52 made no error.

 

[Cameron143]

Maybe that's how man defines atheism, but not how the Bible defines it, and the Bible is the authority in things spiritual, not man.

So biblically, not being born again makes one an atheist?

 

[Magenta]

They understood on a superficial level but not the spiritual level. God cannot be found by/through human intellect.

Scripture does not say that, and, quite the contrary. You subtract from and then add to Scripture to make it fit what you believe.

that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Goes on to say, explicitly: who hold the truth in unrighteousness,

 

[rogerg]

So biblically, not being born again makes one an atheist?

Maybe not by man's logic/assessment, but by God's I think so. Not believing in the true God is not believing
there is God - and in believing that a false God is God, is not to believe there is God because you'd be believing
in something that doesn't exist.

 

[rogerg]

Scripture does not say that, and, quite the contrary.

that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Not on the spiritual.

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[Cameron143]

Maybe not by man's logic/assessment, but by God's I think so. Not believing in the true God is not believing
there is God - and in believing that a false God is God, is not to believe there is God because you'd be believing
in something that doesn't exist.

Is there anything about God that you have learned that is different than what you previously believed even after you were saved? Were you an atheist before? Do you know everything there is to know about God? Are you an atheist?
I know they are absurd questions. In my opinion, just like your answers.

 

[rogerg]

Is there anything about God that you have learned that is different than what you previously believed even after you were saved? Were you an atheist before? Do you know everything there is to know about God? Are you an atheist?
I know they are absurd questions. In my opinion, just like your answers.

Yes, I was an atheist before. No, man knows everything about God. No, I am not an atheist now because God has saved me, and by that, has given me faith in Christ.
If you're going to insult me, I don't see any value in continuing to try to answer your questions.

By the way, aren't you the one who believes God the Son is the first born of God the Father, or
do I mistake you for someone else?

 

[rogerg]

Is there anything about God that you have learned that is different than what you previously believed even after you were saved? Were you an atheist before? Do you know everything there is to know about God? Are you an atheist?
I know they are absurd questions. In my opinion, just like your answers.

My prior reply should have said "No man knows everything about God". The comma was in error.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, I was an atheist before. No, man knows everything about God. No, I am not an atheist now because God has saved me, and by that, has given me faith in Christ.
If you're going to insult me, I don't see any value in continuing to try to answer your questions.

My apologies. But my comments were about your answers, not you. I think you are a smart guy. I still believe your understanding of atheism is unreasonable. Unsaved people can identify the God of the Bible. They aren't atheists. They are unbelievers. If the standard is understanding the God of the Bible fully and accurately, there are only atheists.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

spiritual hearing

you add concepts which do not appear in Scripture ... "spiritual hearing" ... I know you have to include that term in order to support your dogma ... but the Author of Scripture does not state "spiritual hearing" in the verse:

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation ...

Faith is the manifestation of the seal (emblem) of the Holy Spirit.

... you're just making stuff up. just read the verse as written:

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

hear the word of truth ... the gospel of salvation ... believe ... then sealed.

you do not need to add anything ... just believe the verse as written by the Author.

The word "sealed" is translated from the Greek word sphragizó and denotes ownership:

4972 sphragízō – to seal (affix) with a signet ring or other instrument to stamp (a roller or seal), i.e. to attest ownership, authorizing (validating) what is sealed.​

​

4972 /sphragízō ("to seal") signifies ownership and the full security carried by the backing (full authority) of the owner. "Sealing" in the ancient world served as a "legal signature" which guaranteed the promise (contents) of what was sealed.​

HELPS Word-studies​

Holy Spirit within the born again one attests that he/she belongs to God. God claims us as His very own ... God places us under His authority ... and God is the Guarantor that all His promises to us will absolutely be fulfilled ... He is faithful that promised.

.

 

[rogerg]

My apologies. But my comments were about your answers, not you. I think you are a smart guy. I still believe your understanding of atheism is unreasonable. Unsaved people can identify the God of the Bible. They aren't atheists. They are unbelievers. If the standard is understanding the God of the Bible fully and accurately, there are only atheists.

Apology accepted. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. But to clarify, I was not saying the standard is understanding
the God of the Bible fully and completely, I was saying- and I may not have been clear about it - that they have to come to know and have faith in Christ as God and Saviour, which is a gift from God - and that as the very essence of becoming born again.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Brightfame52 made no error.

... brightfame52 certainly did err and you support him in his error!!!

here is the statement submitted brightfame52

those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners

since when has God ever condoned sin??? ... God even tells the wicked to turn from their sin:

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

you "elect" guys sure have bought into satan's lie ...
.

 

[rogerg]

you add concepts which do not appear in Scripture ... "spiritual hearing" ... I know you have to include that term in order to support your dogma ... but the Author of Scripture does not state "spiritual hearing" in the verse:

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation ...

I did not add any concepts. We've actually been through this all before. I used those words to simplify the discussion.
You get into trouble when you do not follow the instructions the Bible sets forth about how it is to be interpreted.
Here, this is what Christ said as an example of spiritual hearing. They could hear with human ears but they could not hear spiritually.


[Jhn 8:43, 47 KJV]
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. ...
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

you do not need to add anything ... just believe the verse as written by the Author.

If you do that, you're in violation of the Bible. You get into trouble when you do not follow the instructions the Bible sets forth regarding its interpretation and that leads you into error. You've set forth that rule from yourself with no biblical basis for it.

The word "sealed" is translated from the Greek word sphragizó and denotes ownership:

The seal is made manifest in faith. Faith comes from the Holy Spirit, not by man.

[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Heb 11:1 KJV] 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Holy Spirit within the born again one attests that he/she belongs to God. God claims us as His very own ... God places us under His authority ... and God is the Guarantor that all His promises to us will absolutely be fulfilled ... He is faithful that promised.

And the sign of His invisible presence is manifested in faith and trust.

[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[rogerg]

since when has God ever condoned sin??? ... God even tells the wicked to turn from their sin:

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

you "elect" guys sure have bought into satan's lie ...

If you don't think people sin carnally throughout their entire lives, or that by your work you can recompense it, that is Satan's lie and it is you who apparently has bought into it. The one sin those saved won't commit is to lose faith in Jesus as Saviour.

[Rom 7:19, 23, 25 KJV]
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. ...
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

[1Ti 1:15 KJV] 15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

since "they will believe in time" then your statement that they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" is error ... when will you admit your error???

Nah, that statement was in reference to believing being a condition they must meet in order to get Justified before God, Now Im speaking of believing as an evidence of having been Justified, big difference. All whom Christ died for while they were ungodly, were Justified before God by His death/blood, then sometime in their life Christ quickens them with His Spirit, which gives them Spiritual life and Faith which then they believe in Him.

Now this shows me you dont pay attention to a thing Ive been saying all this time.

 

[brightfame52]

since the gospel will be "believed" then your statement that they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" is error ... when will you admit your error???

What Bible do you read wherein God ever condones sin???


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

You only quoted a partial statement so I dont know what you talking about.

 

[rogerg]

renewed



Nah, that statement was in reference to believing being a condition they must meet in order to get Justified before God, Now Im speaking of believing as an evidence of having been Justified, big difference. All whom Christ died for while they were ungodly, were Justified before God by His death/blood, then sometime in their life Christ quickens them with His Spirit, which gives them Spiritual life and Faith which then they believe in Him.

Now this shows me you dont pay attention to a thing Ive been saying all this time.

No brightfame52, it might be worse than that, it's not that reneweddaybyday didn't pay attention to your post, instead, and I hope not, but it could be that she purposefully misled. I'd be interested to hear her explanation for it.

 

[rogerg]

you add concepts which do not appear in Scripture ...

... you're just making stuff up. just read the verse as written:

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

hear the word of truth ... the gospel of salvation ... believe ... then sealed.


.

No.

Look at my post 3433. It is clearly demonstrated by scripture that one must first receive the Spirit to
to be able to hear the things of the Spirit. Those verses are beyond debate.
To comprehend from the heart, things spiritual, one must first have been reborn spiritually by the Holy Spirit. To disregard that, is to discard Scripture.

Read 1 Co 2:12 -13 below closely. They tell us that to be able to comprehend the things of God, one must first be given the Spirit of God as a prerequisite. Do you see the "that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God"?
That is, until and unless someone is given the Holy Spirit, they cannot "hear" nor know the things of God. Notice also the "freely given". That means hearing and trusting are gifts freely given by the Spirit and therefore, not within the power of man to give to himself. Could God have made it any clearer than He did there?

[1Co 2:12-13 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Therefore, it can only be thus: become saved/born-again (being indwelt by the Holy Spirit), from that, hearing, trusting, and with that, being sealed. All God's work, none ours.

 

[posthuman]

[Ecc 3:11 KJV] 11 He hath made every [thing] beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

I think it is saying that "no man can find out the work that God maketh". God has set a knowledge of the world in their hearts but a knowledge of the world is not the same as a knowledge of God. Consequently, man, of himself, cannot know God unless given him.

The word here is Strong`s #5769 olam that kjv renders "the world"

i believe that is incorrect. it means 'forever' or 'perpetuity'

He is saying God set eternity in our hearts, yet hidden, in mystery, so no one but God can find it from beginning to end.

God's eternal, unseen qualities are manifest by the things that are seen - per Romans 1 - no one has the excuse that they know nothing of Him. and if knowledge of Him is eternal life, what is the eternal thing in each one's hearts that cannot claim. ignorance as an excuse?

 

[rogerg]

The word here is Strong`s #5769 olam that kjv renders "the world"

i believe that is incorrect. it means 'forever' or 'perpetuity'

He is saying God set eternity in our hearts, yet hidden, in mystery, so no one but God can find it from beginning to end.

God's eternal, unseen qualities are manifest by the things that are seen - per Romans 1 - no one has the excuse that they know nothing of Him. and if knowledge of Him is eternal life, what is the eternal thing in each one's hearts that cannot claim. ignorance as an excuse?

If I understand you correctly, and without opening up a whole involved, lengthy discussion of Romans 1, I would say it is the love of darkness that exists within the heart of natural man.