Jesus is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost

Joshua175 · Jul 29, 2011

no it would not be polytheism.

here read this:
1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

1 Timothy 2:5-7 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."

R3V07UTI0N · Jul 29, 2011

Angelos catholic praise the queen of heaven as you guys call her "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger." (Jeremiah 7:18)

and millions of saints and idols like the rosary and candles "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." (Isaiah 42:8)

you also praise the roman pope not only was he in the hitler's youth but his Vatican sits on the seven hills. "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth." (Revelation 17:9). "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." (Revelation 17:6) Yes and the Romans crucified Jesus. But guess what Jesus isn't dead idk why you have the cross that represents His death. Yes the Lord died for our sins but that don't mean praise graven images.

Joshua175 · Jul 29, 2011

Acts 5:29-32 "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Mark 7:5-9 "Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition"

Colossians 2:8-12 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Acts 4:10-12 "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Galatians 1:6-12 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

angelos · Jul 29, 2011

R3V07UTI0N said:

I'm not catholic I'm reformed baptist. I do not agree with the roman catholic church but I do believe in a catholic church meaning universal which every saint is a part of. Also the romans crucifying Jesus has nothing to do with the roman catholic church other than it being in their canon idk why you thought that would be a strike against them. Also the only "queen of heaven" that could possibly be construed from catholocism is Mary which the muslims were confused about in the quran.

Scotth1960 · Jul 30, 2011

R3V07UTI0N said:

Where do you find in Scripture the term "titles"? If you claim to base everything on Scripture alone, where do you find the titles teaching?
Me? I don't go by Scripture alone, because the Scripture does not teach "by Scripture alone" (see 2 Thess 2:15). 2 Thess. 2:15 proves there is oral, spoken, Apostolic Tradition, that is preserved in the Church of God (Matthew 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15).
The debate in this forum is: what is the original, true Church founded by Jesus Christ (Matthew 16:18)

1 the roman catholic church
1a the byzantine catholic church branch of the roman catholic church
2 the eastern orthodox church (orthodox catholic church)
3 the oriental orthodox church
4 the old catholic church
5 the anglican church
6 one or more of the 30,000 protestant churches since 1521 AD
7 it started even before luther with the lutheran reformation with john wycliffe in england with the morningstar of the protestant reformation the first true church started with john wycliffe in the 13th century
8 skeptic liberal belief there is no true church founded by Jesus Christ. Matthew 16:18 is false.
Christ is not God.

God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Scotth1960 · Jul 30, 2011

Joshua175 said:

DEAR JOSHUA175:
The Athanasian Creed has a heretical phrase in it. It says, The Holy Spirit is of the Father and the Son, not begotten or made, but proceeding.

That is the old Filioque Heresy.

It should read something more like, The Holy Spirit is of the Father and the Son, not begotten nor made, but proceeding from the Father alone, through the Son -- but not from the Son.

Dear Cleante, What would you think of the Athanasian Creed if it read this way I just stated above, or is it not permitted to compose any other Orthodox Creed, because the Nicene Creed of 381 AD is the only acceptable creed for Orthodox Christians being baptism to owe allegiance too? But don't all Orthodox Christians being baptized also have to swear allegiance to the Definition of Chalcedon of Christ in 2 natures?
God bless you.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

jonathanbchristian · Jul 30, 2011

I believe this thread's title is heresy. 1 John 5:7 says "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
Three bear record means that Jesus is not all three.
Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The Jehovah(God) our Elohim(Gods) is one Jehovah(God).
Elohim is plural which is why it is Gods, plural.
God manifest Himself as three and one through out the Scripture.
Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name(authority) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" God has one authority, not one name.
Elohim has been used from the beggining of the Bible. It literally reads (GODS) in the Jewish text. This is a compound unity. Which means that the word means more than one together.

Scotth1960 · Jul 30, 2011

R3V07UTI0N said:

-"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deuteronomy 6:4)
-"One Lord, one faith, one baptism, "(Ephesians 4:5)
-"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" (Colossians 1:15)
-"And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer." (Psalms 78:35). "So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David." (1 Samuel 17:50)
-"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19) "name" notice it's singular not plural so these are titles not different people or gods but ONE God. This is the word of God!!

There is only one God and that God is the Father "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?..."-(Malachi 2:10) If Jesus is God it logically fallows that Jesus is the Father. Want more prove "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."-(Isaiah 9:6) Jesus is the Son prophesied about and there is only ONE Father. More prove Jesus Himself taught that He was the Father. "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."-(John 8:19). "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."-(John 8:24). More prove we should note that "he" in the verse is in italics, which indicates that it is not in the original Greek, been added by the translators. Jesus was really identifying Himself with the "I AM" of (Exodus 3:14). The Jews who did not understand his meaning, asked, "Who art thou?" Jesus answered, "Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning."-(John 8:25). However "They understood not that he spake to them of the Father."-(John 8:27). In other words, Jesus tried to tell them that He is the Father and the I AM and that if they did not accept Him as God they would die in their sins. Also what God would we have if He sent His only Son to die instead of Himself? But we don't have a God like that cuz Jesus is God the Father.

Click to expand...

Dear friend, The first inadequate explanation
of Who God is

"One of the earliest solutions to the trilemma of how the divine three [Matt. 28:19, 1 John 5:7] are related was called Monarchianism in the West of the Roman Empire and Sabellianism in the East. Concerned with safeguarding the unity of God at all cost, some argued that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were merely successive modes of revelation of the one God, a monad. So in later times this error was called modalism. This answer upheld the biblical truth that God is one, but undermined the eternal personal distinctions of Father, Son, and Spirit which the Bible emphasizes. This solution was rejected by the church fathers and by subsequent orthodox theologians down to our day. It is believed that to be loyal to biblical revelation, the doctrine of the Trinity must affirm without equivocation the unity of God and the eternal, personal coexistence of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as eternally differentiated divine "persons." (page 131: JESUS AND THE FATHER: Modern Evangelicals Reinvent the Doctrine of the Trinity. Kevin Giles. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, Copyright 2006.).

God bless us all in Christ. Amen. In Erie Scott Harrington July 2011 AD

Scotth1960 · Jul 30, 2011

R3V07UTI0N said:

Dear R3V07UTI0N, We are called by Christ to believe always and only,only what has been believed "always, everywhere, and by everyone" who is an Orthodox Christian [St. Vincent of Lerins, Commonitories.].
We are called in the Holy Spirit into the truth [St. John 16:13] as it has been taught by the Greek and Latin Orthodox Church Fathers. And the Syriac Orthodox Church Fathers, Egyptian Orthodox Church Fathers, etc. Thus, "The Father is ever Father and never could become Son, so the Son is ever Son and never could become Father." [St. Athanasius the Great, in NPNF, 3.4 (p. 395); cf. 3.36 (p. 413), 4.2 (p. 432), 4.12, (p. 437), etc. Quoted in page 217: JESUS AND THE FATHER: Modern Evangelicals Reinvent the Doctrine of the Trinity. by Kevin Giles. Copyright 2006, Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

-"One Lord, one faith, one baptism, "(Ephesians 4:5)
-"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" (Colossians 1:15)
-"And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer." (Psalms 78:35). "So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David." (1 Samuel 17:50)
-"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19) "name" notice it's singular not plural so these are titles not different people or gods but ONE God. This is the word of God!!

There is only one God and that God is the Father "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?..."-(Malachi 2:10) If Jesus is God it logically fallows that Jesus is the Father. Want more prove

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."-(Isaiah 9:6)

Dear friend, That's a faulty translation of Isaiah 9:6 based on the (a) faulty Hebrew text of the Old Testament. In the Septuagint Greek Old Testament, in Isaiah 9:5, it CORRECTLY reads: "For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder; His name will be called the Angel of Great Counsel, for I shall bring peace upon the rulers, peace and health by Him." SAAS Saint Athanasius Academy Septuagint in OSB Orthodox Study Bible, Copyright 2008 by Saint Athanasius Academy of Orthodox Theology, Elk Grove, California, edited by Fr. Jack N. Sparks, Ph.D., Dean. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Bibles. God bless you. Amen. In Erie PA USA July 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington

Jesus is the Son prophesied about and there is only ONE Father. More prove Jesus Himself taught that He was the Father. "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."-(John 8:19). "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."-(John 8:24). More prove we should note that "he" in the verse is in italics, which indicates that it is not in the original Greek, been added by the translators. Jesus was really identifying Himself with the "I AM" of (Exodus 3:14). The Jews who did not understand his meaning, asked, "Who art thou?" Jesus answered, "Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning."-(John 8:25). However "They understood not that he spake to them of the Father."-(John 8:27). In other words, Jesus tried to tell them that He is the Father and the I AM and that if they did not accept Him as God they would die in their sins. Also what God would we have if He sent His only Son to die instead of Himself? But we don't have a God like that cuz Jesus is God the Father.

Dear friend, Jesus is God the Son. He is not God the Father. Because there is only one God and Father of all (Eph. 4:6), and if Jesus Christ were the Father, there would be two gods and two fathers of all. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Joshua175 · Jul 31, 2011

Dear friend, Jesus is God the Son. He is not God the Father. Because there is only one God and Father of all (Eph. 4:6), and if Jesus Christ were the Father, there would be two gods and two fathers of all. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

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What a contradiction. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit refers to the fact that they are all the same God, not more than one God as you put it because if Jesus is not as much the father as he is the son then he is not as much God as the father is, then that would make Jesus a liar because he said he had all power over all heaven and earth and that he and the father are one. And God said he would not give his Glory to another. When Jesus said he and the father are one, it's clear what he was saying, he was saying he was God.

"I and my Father are one.
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

There is only One God. If Jesus is not just as much the father as he is the son then he is not fully God, but he is fully God. He's Completely God, He's the Alpha and the Omega, the begging and the ending.

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Wait who was manifest in the flesh? GOD was manifest in the flesh. Not part of God but All of the Fullness of God was manifest in the flesh. All of the fullness of God lived within Jesus meaning, Jesus is God and God completely. Like I have said previously

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

"For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day"

We have an inner man and an outer man and we were created in God's image. We can understand God's eternal power and godhead by the things that were Made. God has an inner man and an outer man. The Father and the son. Now tell me. What is the difference between your inner man and your outer man? The Only Difference is the form. One is a physical form and one is a spiritual form but they are both the exact Same person with the exact same thoughts and actions, they are not two different persons.

R3V07UTI0N · Jul 31, 2011

I don't know where the term "Persons" or "Gods" come from. No one in the Bible said this in fact Jesus said "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other..."(Matthew 6:24) and He also said "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8)

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." (John 15:16) just because the Bible says "...Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 1:1) this does not mean they are different "Gods". Here is a good example "Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad." (Psalms 14:7) let me ask you is Jacob a different person from Israel? No.

We can not follow "Tradition" of man. We have to follow "THE LAW" "But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"(Matthew 15:3) "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."(Matthew 15:9) "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (Matthew 15:14)

How can you get "Gods" from "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the [name] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19) name singular not plural so in ONE name "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the [name of Jesus Christ] for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other..." (Matthew 6:24)
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deuteronomy 6:4)
"One Lord, one faith, one baptism," (Ephesians 4:5)
"...neither is there any God beside thee..." (1 Chronicles 17:20)
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." (Isaiah 42:8)
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

You can't limit what God can do He is omnipotent. "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" (Jeremiah 32:27). But you limit the power of God and say He can't be the Father if He is the Son. "...O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?" (Matthew 14:31)

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:21-23)

This goes to every one who believes there is more then one God

Scotth1960 · Jul 31, 2011

Joshua175 said:

The Athanasian Creed is partially Orthodox, but it contains the Filioque, "proceeding from both the Father AND THE SON", and that is heresy according to John 15:26.
The Spirit proceeds from the Father alone.

Scotth1960 · Jul 31, 2011

R3V07UTI0N said:

I don't know where the term "Persons" or "Gods" come from. No one in the Bible said this in fact Jesus said "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other..."(Matthew 6:24) and He also said "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8)

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." (John 15:16) just because the Bible says "...Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 1:1) this does not mean they are different "Gods". Here is a good example "Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad." (Psalms 14:7) let me ask you is Jacob a different person from Israel? No.

We can not follow "Tradition" of man. We have to follow "THE LAW" "But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"(Matthew 15:3) "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."(Matthew 15:9) "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (Matthew 15:14)

How can you get "Gods" from "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the [name] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19) name singular not plural so in ONE name "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the [name of Jesus Christ] for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other..." (Matthew 6:24)
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deuteronomy 6:4)
"One Lord, one faith, one baptism," (Ephesians 4:5)
"...neither is there any God beside thee..." (1 Chronicles 17:20)
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." (Isaiah 42:8)
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

You can't limit what God can do He is omnipotent. "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" (Jeremiah 32:27). But you limit the power of God and say He can't be the Father if He is the Son. "...O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?" (Matthew 14:31)

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:21-23)

This goes to every one who believes there is more then one God

You are following the tradition of Sabellius, saying the Son is the Father, and thus you are saying there is more than one Father. 2 fathers. This is false according to Ephesians 4:6, which says there is but "one God and Father of all".

R3V07UTI0N · Jul 31, 2011

Scotth1960 said:

There is not two fathers I do not believe in "persons" or "Gods". I am not following tradition I'm following the Bible also known as the WORD OF GOD everything I said is from the Bible unlike you "persons" and "Gods" is not from the Bible it's from PAGAN MAN.

Blasphemy

wisdomseeker · Jul 31, 2011

Joshua175 said:

Acts 5:29-32 "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Mark 7:5-9 "Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition"

Colossians 2:8-12 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Acts 4:10-12 "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Galatians 1:6-12 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Love young people who read the word

Joshua175 · Jul 31, 2011

Scotth1960 said:

No he's not saying there's more than one father. He's saying Jesus is the Father. Like Jesus said "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" Jesus is the only Father and He is the son and He is the Holy spirit. They are all him. They are all the same God, the same "Person" It's at the name of Jesus Christ that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that he is Lord. Saying that Jesus is not the father is saying opposite of what Jesus said. Philip asked him if he could show him the father and Jesus asked him "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?" He said it straight forward there, no question, he is the father. Anyone who knows Jesus Knows the father. Because he and the father are One, not two like you are saying.

R3V07UTI0N · Jul 31, 2011

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." (Colossians 2:8)

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Colossians 2:9)

Scotth1960 · Aug 1, 2011

R3V07UTI0N said:

You say the Father is the Father, and you say Jesus is the Father. That is two fathers, and that makes more than one god, no matter how you try to spin it. Ephesians 4:6 says there is one God and Father and all. If Jesus is the Father, then there are 2 Fathers, and that's blasphemy.
God bless you. In Erie Scott R. Harrington

Joshua175 · Aug 1, 2011

Scotth1960 said:

You're seriously missing the identity of the father. The Father is Jesus, that's who he is. It's not more than one father. Jesus is the Father, the son and the Holy Ghost.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

That ONE name of the father, the son and the holy ghost which we are baptized by is the Name of Jesus Christ.

JaumeJ · Aug 1, 2011

R3V07UTI0N said:

-"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deuteronomy 6:4)
-"One Lord, one faith, one baptism, "(Ephesians 4:5)
-"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" (Colossians 1:15)
-"And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer." (Psalms 78:35). "So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David." (1 Samuel 17:50)
-"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19) "name" notice it's singular not plural so these are titles not different people or gods but ONE God. This is the word of God!!

There is only one God and that God is the Father "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?..."-(Malachi 2:10) If Jesus is God it logically fallows that Jesus is the Father. Want more prove "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."-(Isaiah 9:6) Jesus is the Son prophesied about and there is only ONE Father. More prove Jesus Himself taught that He was the Father. "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."-(John 8:19). "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."-(John 8:24). More prove we should note that "he" in the verse is in italics, which indicates that it is not in the original Greek, been added by the translators. Jesus was really identifying Himself with the "I AM" of (Exodus 3:14). The Jews who did not understand his meaning, asked, "Who art thou?" Jesus answered, "Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning."-(John 8:25). However "They understood not that he spake to them of the Father."-(John 8:27). In other words, Jesus tried to tell them that He is the Father and the I AM and that if they did not accept Him as God they would die in their sins. Also what God would we have if He sent His only Son to die instead of Himself? But we don't have a God like that cuz Jesus is God the Father.

There is yet mystery to be unveiled at the return of Christ. I believe He is God, I believe the Father is God, and I believe the Holy Spirt is God. They are One, and although I have in illustration that works for me, this is yet another mystery to be revealed when God is literally living with His children and we all are returned the pure language spoken of by Zephaniah the prophet, so we will call Him by One Name. Mystery, and I will wait for the revelation to all from YHVH....................

Jesus is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost

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