Southern Baptist Losing Thousands of Members
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Clear as a bell. Not only the command, but precisely why. A primordial precedent if you will......
1Ti 2:12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
1Ti 2:12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
Well, unless it has changed in the last few years, they had far more influence than you are suggesting. I know for sure that they issue "preaching subjects" that SB Pastors are expected to preach on each Sunday. I have seen the Pamphlets/Letters they send to Pastors a friend of mine used to get. They have a distinct "message" concerning each subject preached on, and the Pastor is expected to follow SB Teachings on each subject.
The Council or Convention also decides what "theology" will be preached/taught in SB Churches, and Pastors are not to deviate from said "theology."
Their Tith requirements are certainly enforced by each Congregation, as is the Letter of Membership they require for each person in the Congregation. I saw one man and wife fill out a Form where they had to list all of their sources of Income, properties they owned, and assets, and were expected to tithe based on such information. If they failed to do so, once would get a friendly question, twice would get a friendly conversation from a Deacon, three or more times could end up with two or more Deacos visiting them and conversations about their being in danger of having their "Letter" pulled from Membership in the Congregation.
This is not fiction. I know two men and their families that were put out, given their Letters back, because they refused to tithe what they were expected to.
As for Warren and Saddleback, I could not care less, I have never agreed with his teachings. But the NC Mega Church is a far different story. Regardless of ones views, losing several thousand "tithing members" is going to have an effect on any Organization.
As far as "cleaning house," well, yeah, I guess one that agrees with SB Ideology would see it that way......
Anyway, the Article speaks for itself......... I think there will be more dominos to fall as the SBC "cleans house." But, who knows?
The Council or Convention also decides what "theology" will be preached/taught in SB Churches, and Pastors are not to deviate from said "theology."
Their Tith requirements are certainly enforced by each Congregation, as is the Letter of Membership they require for each person in the Congregation. I saw one man and wife fill out a Form where they had to list all of their sources of Income, properties they owned, and assets, and were expected to tithe based on such information. If they failed to do so, once would get a friendly question, twice would get a friendly conversation from a Deacon, three or more times could end up with two or more Deacos visiting them and conversations about their being in danger of having their "Letter" pulled from Membership in the Congregation.
This is not fiction. I know two men and their families that were put out, given their Letters back, because they refused to tithe what they were expected to.
As for Warren and Saddleback, I could not care less, I have never agreed with his teachings. But the NC Mega Church is a far different story. Regardless of ones views, losing several thousand "tithing members" is going to have an effect on any Organization.
As far as "cleaning house," well, yeah, I guess one that agrees with SB Ideology would see it that way......
Anyway, the Article speaks for itself......... I think there will be more dominos to fall as the SBC "cleans house." But, who knows?
Well, unless it has changed in the last few years, they had far more influence than you are suggesting. I know for sure that they issue "preaching subjects" that SB Pastors are expected to preach on each Sunday. I have seen the Pamphlets/Letters they send to Pastors a friend of mine used to get. They have a distinct "message" concerning each subject preached on, and the Pastor is expected to follow SB Teachings on each subject.
The Council or Convention also decides what "theology" will be preached/taught in SB Churches, and Pastors are not to deviate from said "theology."
Their Tith requirements are certainly enforced by each Congregation, as is the Letter of Membership they require for each person in the Congregation. I saw one man and wife fill out a Form where they had to list all of their sources of Income, properties they owned, and assets, and were expected to tithe based on such information. If they failed to do so, once would get a friendly question, twice would get a friendly conversation from a Deacon, three or more times could end up with two or more Deacos visiting them and conversations about their being in danger of having their "Letter" pulled from Membership in the Congregation.
This is not fiction. I know two men and their families that were put out, given their Letters back, because they refused to tithe what they were expected to.
As for Warren and Saddleback, I could not care less, I have never agreed with his teachings. But the NC Mega Church is a far different story. Regardless of ones views, losing several thousand "tithing members" is going to have an effect on any Organization.
As far as "cleaning house," well, yeah, I guess one that agrees with SB Ideology would see it that way......
Anyway, the Article speaks for itself......... I think there will be more dominos to fall as the SBC "cleans house." But, who knows?
The Council or Convention also decides what "theology" will be preached/taught in SB Churches, and Pastors are not to deviate from said "theology."
Their Tith requirements are certainly enforced by each Congregation, as is the Letter of Membership they require for each person in the Congregation. I saw one man and wife fill out a Form where they had to list all of their sources of Income, properties they owned, and assets, and were expected to tithe based on such information. If they failed to do so, once would get a friendly question, twice would get a friendly conversation from a Deacon, three or more times could end up with two or more Deacos visiting them and conversations about their being in danger of having their "Letter" pulled from Membership in the Congregation.
This is not fiction. I know two men and their families that were put out, given their Letters back, because they refused to tithe what they were expected to.
As for Warren and Saddleback, I could not care less, I have never agreed with his teachings. But the NC Mega Church is a far different story. Regardless of ones views, losing several thousand "tithing members" is going to have an effect on any Organization.
As far as "cleaning house," well, yeah, I guess one that agrees with SB Ideology would see it that way......
Anyway, the Article speaks for itself......... I think there will be more dominos to fall as the SBC "cleans house." But, who knows?
As far as "Sermon Outlines"....
They have to actually pay for those...IOW subscribe to get them.
I rail against "canned sermons" regularly.
Most pastors usually subscribe to last year's at a discount from what they charge for this year's outlines.
Some Pastors don't subscribe at all....some prefer "series" on books in the Bible or they do themes for their series.
Some have their sermons planned out almost a year in advance so that music and Small Group studies can coordinate.
I've been to ALOT of SBC churches....once upon a time they all used the same Sunday School literature so that if you were traveling you didn't have to miss a lesson. Then they have added more series over the decades....I'm not exactly a fan of their EIC for the past two decades.
Just saying.
Well, unless it has changed in the last few years, they had far more influence than you are suggesting. I know for sure that they issue "preaching subjects" that SB Pastors are expected to preach on each Sunday. I have seen the Pamphlets/Letters they send to Pastors a friend of mine used to get. They have a distinct "message" concerning each subject preached on, and the Pastor is expected to follow SB Teachings on each subject.
The Council or Convention also decides what "theology" will be preached/taught in SB Churches, and Pastors are not to deviate from said "theology."
Their Tith requirements are certainly enforced by each Congregation, as is the Letter of Membership they require for each person in the Congregation. I saw one man and wife fill out a Form where they had to list all of their sources of Income, properties they owned, and assets, and were expected to tithe based on such information. If they failed to do so, once would get a friendly question, twice would get a friendly conversation from a Deacon, three or more times could end up with two or more Deacos visiting them and conversations about their being in danger of having their "Letter" pulled from Membership in the Congregation.
This is not fiction. I know two men and their families that were put out, given their Letters back, because they refused to tithe what they were expected to.
As for Warren and Saddleback, I could not care less, I have never agreed with his teachings. But the NC Mega Church is a far different story. Regardless of ones views, losing several thousand "tithing members" is going to have an effect on any Organization.
As far as "cleaning house," well, yeah, I guess one that agrees with SB Ideology would see it that way......
Anyway, the Article speaks for itself......... I think there will be more dominos to fall as the SBC "cleans house." But, who knows?
The Council or Convention also decides what "theology" will be preached/taught in SB Churches, and Pastors are not to deviate from said "theology."
Their Tith requirements are certainly enforced by each Congregation, as is the Letter of Membership they require for each person in the Congregation. I saw one man and wife fill out a Form where they had to list all of their sources of Income, properties they owned, and assets, and were expected to tithe based on such information. If they failed to do so, once would get a friendly question, twice would get a friendly conversation from a Deacon, three or more times could end up with two or more Deacos visiting them and conversations about their being in danger of having their "Letter" pulled from Membership in the Congregation.
This is not fiction. I know two men and their families that were put out, given their Letters back, because they refused to tithe what they were expected to.
As for Warren and Saddleback, I could not care less, I have never agreed with his teachings. But the NC Mega Church is a far different story. Regardless of ones views, losing several thousand "tithing members" is going to have an effect on any Organization.
As far as "cleaning house," well, yeah, I guess one that agrees with SB Ideology would see it that way......
Anyway, the Article speaks for itself......... I think there will be more dominos to fall as the SBC "cleans house." But, who knows?
Here's the ruling document of the SBC.
https://bfm.sbc.net/bfm2000/
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Right....I haven't seen it either.....except for an associate Pastor.
And to me the pastoral staff kinda gets a raw deal on one hand....but a pretty good deal on the other. They usually get paid pretty well, especially with all the perks and bennies that come with the job. So giving 10% back is kinda a given.
And an associate Pastor who does not believe in the church or giving to God is going to make everyone question him, his commitment to God, commitment to the church he is personally ministering to etc etc etc.
But an average pew warmer not giving? I doubt anyone would know except for the few pastors that ask to know of the accountants. (Judas)
Some pastors do not want people that don't give to the church to be an adult small group leader, deacon, or some other position of service/leadership in the church. But their membership is not questioned or ever disparaged for not giving. They just can't have a position of leadership according to some pastors. Some pastors don't care though and never know and don't want to know.
It's the SBC.....you will find a large variety of policies within the wide pail of orthodoxy in an SBC church.
And to me the pastoral staff kinda gets a raw deal on one hand....but a pretty good deal on the other. They usually get paid pretty well, especially with all the perks and bennies that come with the job. So giving 10% back is kinda a given.
And an associate Pastor who does not believe in the church or giving to God is going to make everyone question him, his commitment to God, commitment to the church he is personally ministering to etc etc etc.
But an average pew warmer not giving? I doubt anyone would know except for the few pastors that ask to know of the accountants. (Judas)
Some pastors do not want people that don't give to the church to be an adult small group leader, deacon, or some other position of service/leadership in the church. But their membership is not questioned or ever disparaged for not giving. They just can't have a position of leadership according to some pastors. Some pastors don't care though and never know and don't want to know.
It's the SBC.....you will find a large variety of policies within the wide pail of orthodoxy in an SBC church.
I guess it's possible for the church leadership to know how much most tithing members contribute, we get a statement for our taxes, but I know of no one who has ever done it. Anyone who inquired, would be outed by the church secretary, to the person who is the subject of the inquiry.
The important fact shared by all SBC churches and all other Christian denominations (I hope) is that "we are saved by grace through faith".
The important fact shared by all SBC churches and all other Christian denominations (I hope) is that "we are saved by grace through faith".
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