Man killed in Utah FBI raid allegedly posted death threats against Biden

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#21
Jul 31, 2013
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#21
Cameron143 said:
You may not believe we have reached such a point, but many believe we passed that threshold long ago.I certainly believe we have.
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The declaration of independence - which is not scripture BTW - says that when a government seriously infringes on "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" that people have a right to replace it with one that facilitates those things.
The context is that Thomas Jefferson was excusing treason.

this is an argument for LGBT rights and homosexual marriage, actually. liberty and pursuit of happiness.

in a country roughly 50/50 divided on certain major issues, it is not an infringement of one half's rights if the other half wins an election.
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#22
Sep 14, 2020
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#22
posthuman said:
Eli's response is no less sinful than the rhetoric this man had been putting on the internet.

those things have consequences.
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So your defense is that "my sin is no worse than the rhetoric of the man that was gunned down by the FBI"? And after seeing this Eli decided that he would join in and say essentially the same thing the man in Utah said?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#23
Mar 1, 2022
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#23
posthuman said:
No, the constitution condemns treason.

You are thinking of the declaration of independence.
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Thanks for the correction.
And treason is what government officials are doing now. There is great injustice being done to the American people. But those in charge of providing justice are the very ones causing and perpetuating the injustice.
What do you propose as a solution to this?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#24
Jul 31, 2013
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#24
posthuman said:
The declaration of independence - which is not scripture BTW - says that when a government seriously infringes on "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" that people have a right to replace it with one that facilitates those things.
The context is that Thomas Jefferson was excusing treason.

this is an argument for LGBT rights and homosexual marriage, actually. liberty and pursuit of happiness.

in a country roughly 50/50 divided on certain major issues, it is not an infringement of one half's rights if the other half wins an election.
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The context is that Thomas Jefferson was excusing treason.

the democrats being in the white house is not an excuse to threaten to shoot federal agents. forceful overthrow of due process in order to put a republican in the presidency is dictatorship, and threatening all those with differing political ideology is fascism.

one of the things about living in a democracy is you have to accept that your neighbor may get to outvote you, no matter how much you think he's wrong.

If you don't like that, and feel compelled to take up arms and force your political will on everyone without regard to their votes, I question whether you really love this country or not.

But that's what the right calls 'patriots' today - those who are actually fascist. and none of this is Christian, at all. Christians are not called to involve themselves in worldly political power struggles. we are citizens of a heavenly nation - not of this world.
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#25
Sep 14, 2020
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#25
posthuman said:
@ZNP

do you disagree his heart was clearly full of murderous thoughts?

is it just that those who live by the sword, die by it?
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I have heard that his posts were every bit as reprehensible as some of those I have seen on this forum, including yours.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#26
Jul 31, 2013
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#26
Cameron143 said:
Thanks for the correction.
And treason is what government officials are doing now. There is great injustice being done to the American people. But those in charge of providing justice are the very ones causing and perpetuating the injustice.
What do you propose as a solution to this?
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i could say the same thing in defense of immigrants and homosexuals and the poor.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#27
Jul 31, 2013
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#27
ZNP said:
I have heard that his posts were every bit as reprehensible as some of those I have seen on this forum, including yours.
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What exactly do you find reprehensible about what I am saying here?
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#28
Sep 14, 2020
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#28
posthuman said:
What exactly do you find reprehensible about what I am saying here?
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Sending a SWAT team to a 70 year old, homebound man's house, gunning him down in his house, dragging his body out into the street to bleed out and then leaving him there is justifiable because of his "thoughts".

Did he have a criminal record? No.

Had he committed a crime? No.

Was there an imminent threat to someone's life inside his house at the time they shot him? No.

Had he been charged and convicted of a crime? No.

Had he been charged with a crime? No.

I can understand why the FBI would want to question him. However, a pre dawn raid with a SWAT team which was a cover for a kill squad, that is reprehensible and any reasonable person would agree.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#29
Mar 1, 2022
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#29
posthuman said:
i could say the same thing in defense of immigrants and homosexuals and the poor.
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Because you don't realize what true injustice is. This administration is using these people. They could care less about homosexuals or immigrants. Allowing for tax deductions for homosexuals couples gives them equal protection under the law. Promoting homosexual marriage defends their sin. No homosexual is better off having their sin legitimized. You merely insure their doom. By the same token, telling migrants to break the laws of our nation to enter the country is encouraging sinful behavior. We would be better served to promote the economies in their own countries and raise the standard of living there.
It's easy to virtue signal. But what you are actually doing is leading people into sin. There are ways to address these issues that don't promote sin and actually help everyone involved. What is happening now is hurtful to everyone except those manipulating it.
And btw, abortion severely limits the ability of the unborn to enjoy life, let alone liberty or happiness.
 
T

Ted01

Well-known member
#30
May 14, 2022
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#30
posthuman said:
No, the constitution condemns treason.

You are thinking of the declaration of independence.
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Still, the "founding fathers" (arguably) included the 2nd amendment as a means for citizens to protect themselves against tyranny, or so some believe?

So, the question is, is it treason to forcibly replace our government if they themselves are committing treason? And then, who is it that makes that decision?

What a mess...
 
T

Ted01

Well-known member
#31
May 14, 2022
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#31
ZNP said:
Sending a SWAT team to a 70 year old, homebound man's house, gunning him down in his house, dragging his body out into the street to bleed out and then leaving him there is justifiable because of his "thoughts".

Did he have a criminal record? No.

Had he committed a crime? No.

Was there an imminent threat to someone's life inside his house at the time they shot him? No.

Had he been charged and convicted of a crime? No.

Had he been charged with a crime? No.

I can understand why the FBI would want to question him. However, a pre dawn raid with a SWAT team which was a cover for a kill squad, that is reprehensible and any reasonable person would agree.
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I'm not sure who fired the first shots? The media seem to be implying that it was the 70 y/o, housebound man?
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#32
Sep 14, 2020
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#32
Ted01 said:
I'm not sure who fired the first shots? The media seem to be implying that it was the 70 y/o, housebound man?
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should be easy enough to prove. We should certainly know if he fired any shots. You would think the way the media is portraying this as the evil MAGA being responsible that if he had fired a shot they would be blaring that all over the place.
 
Eli1

Eli1

Well-known member
#33
Apr 5, 2022
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#33
Yeah but this guy didn't follow commands ... right?

Isn't that how we justify when cops shoot a black guy for example?
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#35
Sep 14, 2020
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#35
Eli1 said:
Yeah but this guy didn't follow commands ... right?

Isn't that how we justify when cops shoot a black guy for example?
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What do you mean by "we"?
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#37
Sep 14, 2020
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#37
Eli1 said:
We Conservatives man.
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No, we Christians do not justify people being shot according to this. Judge righteous judgement.
 
Eli1

Eli1

Well-known member
#38
Apr 5, 2022
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#38
ZNP said:
No, we Christians do not justify people being shot according to this. Judge righteous judgement.
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On face value this looks pretty good, ready to be sold.

So, what's your opinion on George Floyd?
 
ZNP

ZNP

Well-known member
#39
Sep 14, 2020
37,792
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#39
Eli1 said:
On face value this looks pretty good, ready to be sold.

So, what's your opinion on George Floyd?
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My opinion is that George Floyd was a criminal, he was not a saint, and he was murdered by the police.

Passing a fraudulent $20 is not a valid reason to have the police execute him which is what happened. They acted with extreme disregard to his life. In my opinion all the cops there bore some responsibility for his death though, no doubt, the guy on his neck should be convicted of murder. Probably 2nd degree, you would have to have some incredible evidence to get him for 1st degree.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#40
Oct 6, 2011
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#40
ZNP said:
should be easy enough to prove. We should certainly know if he fired any shots. You would think the way the media is portraying this as the evil MAGA being responsible that if he had fired a shot they would be blaring that all over the place.
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The MAGA parts are in the news because the Truth Social forum is who contacted the FBI and reported the man in Utah.
 
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