That's TRIB-STUFF (spans of time)
1) This doesn't say "when He comes TO GLORIFY His saints";
2) THIS IS speaking of His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19), when He sends them away to "everlasting punishment"; But this only speaks of v.9's things (whereas vv.7-8 are the TRIB YEARS which PRECEDE that point in the chronology, and LEAD UP TO it--everything we see in Rev[4:1 onward] chpts 6-19 (the 7 yrs of JUDGMENTS unfolding upon the earth); and JESUS FROM HIS POSITION IN HEAVEN INITIATING that entire time-period BY HIS OPENING THE FIRST SEAL (i.e JUDGMENT; "STAND to JUDGE" as Isa3:13 states, see Rev5:6 as well as the "worthy to" passages)
No, I will believe what the Bible says about the time frame. II Thessalonians 1 shows us a number of things He will do when He comes. Your taking some of that list and putting it before His coming.
I think you are basing doctrine on the turn of phrase in some translations, which, for the sake of English readability, create a new sentence out of verse 9. But read it in an interlinear or read Young's Literal Translation, which captures the long sentence.
6 since [it is] a righteous thing with God to give back to those troubling you -- trouble,
7 and to you who are troubled -- rest with us in the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven, with messengers of his power,
8 in flaming fire, giving vengeance to those not knowing God, and to those not obeying the good news of our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,
10 when He may come to be glorified in his saints, and to be wondered at in all those believing -- because our testimony was believed among you -- in that day;
Notice in verse 10 that this happens 'when he comes to be glorified in the saints.' I am not saying 'may come.' It literally translates a subjunctive, but that is a stilted focus on the word not the meaning in context, IMO.
So look at what happens 'WHEN he comes.' Here is a list of things:
When He comes:
* God gives back tribulation to those causing the church tribulation/trouble
* and give sthe church rest
* in/at the revelation of Jesus Christ in flaming fire giving vengeance on them that know not God who do not obey the Gospel
* who suffer justice
* When Jesus comes....
Lots of stuff happens when Jesus comes.
Have a look at an interliner
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/1.htm
Also the word for 'comes' or 'may com'e in the YLT is a word that translates rather directly as 'come.' (It might be 'go' also as I recall. English is rather particular about that.) 'Parousia' is translated 'coming' but more literally has to do with presenting or being present, but is used like 'come' in Greek. An army that shows up in Greek is present or presents itself when it arrives at the battle (just an example from something I read, in Greek not trying to imply battle is a part of the meaning of the word..)
The sentence doesn't say that. (Read my posts on that point again.)
"RED" is TRIB YRS ^ ; "PURPLE" is His Second Coming to the earth (Rv19) point in time ^ .
This is all one sentence. This is another case of your assuming pre-trib, a system external to scripture, and assigning veres to time periods on the dispensational chart or schema you have in your mind.
Where does the Bible teach that Jesus comes back? Where does the Bible teach the pre-trib assumptions that you use when you say "This scripture goes a tthis time, and this one goes at that time."
Paul sets the rapture at the parousia of the Lord in I Thessalonians 4. II Thessalonians 2:8 sets the destruction of the man of sin at the coming of the Lord. There is one little part of Revelation 19 we both agree refers to the coming of the Lord, and right in that passage the beast is thrown into the lake of fire.
Where does Revelation mention another coming of Jesus before that? Show me chapter and verse. Where does the Lord Jesus or one of the apostles in scripture or one of the prophets in the Old Testament lay it out for us that Jesus comes back before that return in Revelation 19, after the ascension. Show me in scripture.
What pre-tribbers do is ASSUME this pretrib scenario of Jesus coming back two more times and then say the rapture happens at this coming of the Lord, and then the destruction of the man of sin happens at this verse. I suppose I could do the same thing and count all the references to the return of Christ and say there are a bunch of them, that He comes back, and sanctifies the church body soul and spirit, then comes back again and destroys the man of sin and resurrects the dead in the first resurrection, then comes back again and raptures the church and raises the dead in Christ, etc. But if I did so, that would be convoluted nonsense. How is pretrib any different, except it just does that two times instead of a bunch of times?
What is your Biblical basis for saying there are two returns of Christ then sorting and assigning verses to that timeline? Show me from scripture. If you can't, why defend it, or hold on to that system. I want to also direct these questions in the past few paragraphs to
@cv5.
And if you can't provide that, why in the world would you defend pretrib and still keep grasping at straws to try to make passages that don't fit, fit into that system?
No, He does so FROM HIS POSITION IN HEAVEN (see again Rev5:6 at the START of the Trib, when He will OPEN THE FIRST SEAL, its effects upon the earth shown starting in 6:2... and proceeds onward from there--Jesus doesn't "COME BACK" to "INFLICT" this "VENGEANCE" on them, He does so FROM HEAVEN (for the 7-yr period) with his "MIGHTY angels," and ONLY AFTER that, the "WHEN" of verse 10 takes place at His Second Coming (covering what VERSE 9 is about).
When He comes. It's in II Thessalonians 2.
EDIT to correct:
where it should have read (re: G3752): "When ["at the time when the condition is met,"] he shall come to be glorified in his saints,"
That's a convoluted way to say when. That list of things happen when the condition is met... and the condition is that He comes (to be glorified in his saints..)
[again, this verse is not saying "when He comes TO GLORIFY His saints," but "when He shall come TO BE GLORIFIED IN His saints, and to be..."; and that's speaking of His Second Coming to the earth point in time (Rev19), when the v.9 things will take place]
Our glorification comes through Christ being glorified in us, an amazing truth. But it still tells us this happens 'when He comes.'
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Wha?!?!?! LOL)
