Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?

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cv5

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"No one knows the day or the hour" is an idiom
I am very well aware of the implications of that statement as regards the Jewish moedim. In fact nobody knew the day or hour of the beginning of any month! It had to be visually confirmed by witnesses.......who sounded trumpets.

But the rapture has nothing whatsoever to do with the moedim. The Groom can arrive at any moment to harpazo His gentilish Bride. Totally unpredictable.
 

cv5

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You said God did this so that Satan wouldn't know as though Satan could do something to thwart God's plans.
I never said that nor did I imply it.
All I said is that it was a secret rapture to serve God's purposes. And one only deduce (certainly not prove) that one of the purposes is to keep Satan out of the loop. Perfectly understandable.

Nothing More nothing less. It is preposterous to assume that the war between Satan and Almighty eternal omniscient outside of time God is equally matched.
 

cv5

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You dodged my point. Jesus crucifixion was prophesied to the year in Daniel. John the Baptist called him "the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world". Satan knew 3 1/2 years before the crucifixion that Jesus was the Passover lamb. He didn't want to crucify Jesus during the feast, but he had no choice, just like in chess when you are forced to make a move.

The idea that God is hiding the time of the rapture so that Satan doesn't find out is not Biblical. God is omnipotent, and omniscient, Satan is neither.

Also, it is God, not Satan, that gives the world the great delusion. In order to have the great delusion they need to be able to set it up and that suggests they have a very good idea of when the rapture will take place.
Satan has never made the correct move on the chess board with God ever not once. Easily provable.
 

cv5

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You dodged my point. Jesus crucifixion was prophesied to the year in Daniel. John the Baptist called him "the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world". Satan knew 3 1/2 years before the crucifixion that Jesus was the Passover lamb. He didn't want to crucify Jesus during the feast, but he had no choice, just like in chess when you are forced to make a move.

The idea that God is hiding the time of the rapture so that Satan doesn't find out is not Biblical. God is omnipotent, and omniscient, Satan is neither.

Also, it is God, not Satan, that gives the world the great delusion. In order to have the great delusion they need to be able to set it up and that suggests they have a very good idea of when the rapture will take place.
BTW......theSatan/man Judas DID execute all kinds of countermoves before and after the Crucifixion. Y'all should find out about the moves afterward. The silver the potter the hanging the guts spilling. All carefully calculated and crafted countermeasures. All failing miserably.
 

ZNP

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I am very well aware of the implications of that statement as regards the Jewish moedim. In fact nobody knew the day or hour of the beginning of any month! It had to be visually confirmed by witnesses.......who sounded trumpets.

But the rapture has nothing whatsoever to do with the moedim. The Groom can arrive at any moment to harpazo His gentilish Bride. Totally unpredictable.
Not totally unpredictable. There were days like the 9th of Av when you were not to get married.

However, the Day of Atonement was the marriage day based on the story in the Torah. Shavuot was when Moses went up to get the marriage contract, prior to going up the children of Israel agreed to the wedding. Then Moses came down on the 9th of Av, saw the orgy of those worshipping Moloch and smashed the ten commandments. 3,000 were killed, and then on Pentecost, the same day of the year 3,000 were saved.

Yes, it is true that they don't know the first day of any month without seeing the new moon, but there is only one moedim that takes place on a New Moon, and it is the next one that is to take place.

My point is not that this being an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets is conclusive proof, my point is that it means the interpretation that we should understand that literally instead of as an idiomatic expression is not the only reasonable interpretation.

If Jesus were to answer the question about when He is to return saying it would be on Turkey day, anyone not familiar with that idiom would come up with many weird theories about what that would mean. However, if He said that to Americans they wouldn't ask any more questions because that is a very clear answer.

The disciples respond like their question has been answered.
 

ZNP

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I never said that nor did I imply it.
All I said is that it was a secret rapture to serve God's purposes. And one only deduce (certainly not prove) that one of the purposes is to keep Satan out of the loop. Perfectly understandable.

Nothing More nothing less. It is preposterous to assume that the war between Satan and Almighty eternal omniscient outside of time God is equally matched.
Fine, so that is a non Biblical arguement. I am looking for Biblical support for saying no one knows the day or the hour, give us the verse references that you are referring to for this argument.
 

ZNP

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BTW......theSatan/man Judas DID execute all kinds of countermoves before and after the Crucifixion. Y'all should find out about the moves afterward. The silver the potter the hanging the guts spilling. All carefully calculated and crafted countermeasures. All failing miserably.
This is how the Lord operates. Everyone was expecting him from Bethlehem or Egypt. No one was expecting him from Nazareth.
 

cv5

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Not totally unpredictable. There were days like the 9th of Av when you were not to get married.

However, the Day of Atonement was the marriage day based on the story in the Torah. Shavuot was when Moses went up to get the marriage contract, prior to going up the children of Israel agreed to the wedding. Then Moses came down on the 9th of Av, saw the orgy of those worshipping Moloch and smashed the ten commandments. 3,000 were killed, and then on Pentecost, the same day of the year 3,000 were saved.

Yes, it is true that they don't know the first day of any month without seeing the new moon, but there is only one moedim that takes place on a New Moon, and it is the next one that is to take place.

My point is not that this being an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets is conclusive proof, my point is that it means the interpretation that we should understand that literally instead of as an idiomatic expression is not the only reasonable interpretation.

If Jesus were to answer the question about when He is to return saying it would be on Turkey day, anyone not familiar with that idiom would come up with many weird theories about what that would mean. However, if He said that to Americans they wouldn't ask any more questions because that is a very clear answer.

The disciples respond like their question has been answered.
Pretty straightforward frankly.

Mat 24:44
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

BTW.....did the door of the Ark shut on any peculiar day related to the moedim?
Gen 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

A lot of trumpets to sort out. Many more than these.
Num 10:7
But when the congregation is to be gathered together, ye shall blow, but ye shall not sound an alarm.
Num 10:8
And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for ever throughout your generations.
Num 10:9
And if ye go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresseth you, then ye shall blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall be remembered before the LORD your God, and ye shall be saved from your enemies.
Num 10:10
Also in the day of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings, and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your God: I am the LORD your God.
 

ZNP

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Pretty straightforward frankly.

Mat 24:44
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Yes, it is straightforward, you said no one knows the day or the hour, but now you are saying we don't know the hour?
 

cv5

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Yes, it is straightforward, you said no one knows the day or the hour, but now you are saying we don't know the hour?
That's not me doing the talking there bro......
 

iamsoandso

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Hmm and more in line with the OP,,,yep Trump could get on NBC and say stuff like he thinks 15 weeks is a good place to let people preform abortions and that he thinks the GOP wont win if they don't compromise with the Democrats?
 

ZNP

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That's not me doing the talking there bro......
I'm asking for Bible verses that say we don't know the day.

As for the verse you quoted, Jesus also said this

3 So remember and take to heart the lessons you have received and heard. Keep and obey them, and repent [change your sinful way of thinking, and demonstrate your repentance with new behavior that proves a conscious decision to turn away from sin]. So then, if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

No verse is of it's own interpretation. Put them both together it seems clear that they are charging us to watch, and that if we don't watch we won't know the hour.
 

iamsoandso

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Hmm and more in line with the OP,,,yep Trump could get on NBC and say stuff like he thinks 15 weeks is a good place to let people preform abortions and that he thinks the GOP wont win if they don't compromise with the Democrats?

Yeah right DT we might vote for you if you shoot someone in downtown Manhattan but were you meaning the aborted babies?
 

cv5

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I'm asking for Bible verses that say we don't know the day.

As for the verse you quoted, Jesus also said this

3 So remember and take to heart the lessons you have received and heard. Keep and obey them, and repent [change your sinful way of thinking, and demonstrate your repentance with new behavior that proves a conscious decision to turn away from sin]. So then, if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

No verse is of it's own interpretation. Put them both together it seems clear that they are charging us to watch, and that if we don't watch we won't know the hour.
Agree. Sort of lol.
The point is that yes the times and seasons are knowable and we should watch. The precise day/hour.....we do not know.

Same goes for the beginning of months. Everybody knows when the time is at hand. But the hour is only known by observation.
 

ZNP

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Agree. Sort of lol.
The point is that yes the times and seasons are knowable and we should watch. The precise day/hour.....we do not know.

Same goes for the beginning of months. Everybody knows when the time is at hand. But the hour is only known by observation.
At the Proper time

Matthew 24:36 “But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son [in His humanity], but the Father alone.

This verse is present tense, it is not future tense. If we read the context of this verse, prior to it the Lord is speaking in the future tense and after it He is speaking in the future tense. So the fact that here He switches to the present tense is quite meaningful. Therefore, let us look at the wider context.

34 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, this generation [the people living when these signs and events begin] will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth [as now known] will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

This immediately precedes the verse. Here we have a prophecy of the future. Many argue that this was fulfilled in 70 AD because you can clearly see the prediction of the destruction of the Temple in Matthew 24 and the persecution that the apostles would go through. Others argue that this is a reference to the end of the age because there is a very clear parallel between the Lord's prophecies in this chapter with the book of Revelation and the end of the age. I believe that this word is referring to both and that the destruction of Jerusalem is instructive to us as a prototype of the end of the age. But it is clear, Jesus tells us what will take place and then He switches gears and tells us what we know right now, today.

37 For the coming of the Son of Man (the Messiah) will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be [unexpected judgment].

These verses come after this verse about not knowing the day or the hour and the word "for" beginning this explains what Jesus means. He was not referring to Noah, or to his family or to Methuselah or even to Enoch who named Methuselah and gave us this prophecy. When He says "no one knows" he means no one in the world. They didn't know. Obviously Noah knew the flood was coming, built a boat, preached the gospel and then entered the ark seven days before the flood began.

40 At that time two men will be in the field; one will be taken [for judgment] and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken [for judgment] and one will be left.

Once again a clear prophecy concerning the future. One will be taken, that word means "as a close companion, associate or friend". The other will be left, that word means "divorced". This further clarifies what He meant by no one knows (present tense). At that time who was a close companion and friend of the resurrected Christ? These are both "Christians" at least in name. If you divorce a woman she had your name until the point where she is divorced. They are in the gospel field and they are grinding up the word of God to feed the saints. The church age will see many called but few will be chosen.

John 15:15 I do not call you servants any longer, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you [My] friends, because I have revealed to you everything that I have heard from My Father.

If you are a friend, a close personal associate of the Lord, then He reveals everything that He has heard from His father. If you put the verses together it is very clear, right now no one knows, but if you are a close personal friend, then He will tell you.

Matthew 24:42 “So be alert [give strict attention, be cautious and active in faith], for you do not know which day [whether near or far] your Lord is coming.

This is the conclusion. This attitude is very telling. Those who are going to be divorced are not friends, they are not close personal companions, rather they are like those in the world eating, and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage and they are clueless. They are clueless because it reveals their heart, they don't really care about the Lord's coming. Meanwhile there are those who are alert and watching carefully for the Lord's return because they are His friends, they are building the ark, they are preaching righteousness.

43 But understand this: If the head of the house had known what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore, you [who follow Me] must also be ready; because the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him.

He just switched to past tense! The leaders of the Jews were the head of the household. They should have known when He was coming based on Daniel, but they didn't. As a result He came as a thief, robbing the Jewish religion and creating the Christian religion which has far surpassed the Jews. He is telling us to learn from their mistake. They did not want to hand over everything to the Lord when He came, and so they suffered loss. You need to be ready, how? By giving everything to the Lord, that is what a burnt offering is. You need to be a burnt offering to the Lord.

45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant whom his master has put in charge of his household to give the others [in the house] their food and supplies at the proper time?

Do you see this! He was talking in future tense, jumped to present tense, then back to future and then to past tense. Now He tells us we have to give the food to the house "at the proper time". Everything about this section is focused on the proper time. There is a proper time for the apostles, there is a proper time for "justification by faith" to be taught, a proper time to teach about "new life", a proper time to teach about "the oneness of the body of Christ". And there is a proper time to teach about the rapture and the Lord's coming. Have you noticed that many pastors and churches will not talk about this topic? There is no warfare concerning justification by faith, or new life or even the oneness of the Body. But speak about the rapture and you are likely to get beaten by Christians who are eating and drinking with the drunken. How do you know when the proper time is? You must be a close companion and friend of the Lord Jesus.

46 Blessed is that [faithful] servant when his master returns and finds him doing so. 47 I assure you and most solemnly say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But if that servant is evil and says in his heart, ‘My master is taking his time [he will not return for a long while],’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards; 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour of which he is not aware, 51 and will cut him in two and put him with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping [over sorrow and pain] and grinding of teeth [over distress and anger].

The Lord is the one that knows the hearts and reveals the thoughts and intents of the heart. How you respond at the end of the age to His coming will reveal your heart.
 
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Many believe that Donald Trump Is above the law and they put Donald Trump above the constitution and that Is a HARD truth and a testimony of where America Is right now and that's Sad.
 

ZNP

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I'm not aware of anyone claiming this. Do you have an example?
I heard his son is suing the IRS for trying to prosecute him for tax evasion. Oh wait, that is Hunter Biden. OK, but I heard he was going to withhold US financial aid to Ukraine if they didn't fire the prosecutor who was investigating his son's company. Oh, wait, that was Joe Biden. OK, but what about the 30,000 emails he destroyed? Oops, Hillary Clinton.
 

ZNP

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The Day of Atonement in Daniel

Daniel 12:1 “Now at that [end] time Michael, the great [angelic] prince who stands guard over the children of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; but at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the Book [of Life], will be rescued. 2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake (resurrect), these to everlasting life, but some to disgrace and everlasting contempt (abhorrence).

This is a direct and very clear reference to the Day of Atonement. At the Feast of Trumpets the books are open. You have the book of life and if you are written in that book you will go to everlasting life. You have the book of death and if you are in that book you go to everlasting contempt. Then you have the book of sinners, those who are still not clearly in one book or the other.

When Jesus tells Sardis

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Many have been shocked that "blotting your name out of the book of life" is a possibility. Please note, blotting your name out of the book of life is not the same as writing it in the book of death. Suppose He said "he that overcomes will be raptured and will not be left behind". Suppose "being raptured" is equal to having your name in the book of life and in order for that to happen you must "overcome". If you do not overcome that doesn't mean your name is in the book of death, instead it means you are in the book of the sinners. A psychopath and sociopath would be those that would be in the book of death, the ones that go into eternal contempt. Overcomers are in the book of life. Everyone else hasn't been sorted yet and will be sorted out during the tribulation. They may be sheep that inherit the earth, they may turn out to be goats that go into the book of death, or they may overcome during the tribulation and be in the book of life.

Daniel 12:3 Those who are [spiritually] wise will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead many to righteousness, [will shine] like the stars forever and ever.

On the one hand this sounds like the raptured saints, but it also sounds like the story of the ten virgins with their lamps and five were wise and took oil with them.

4 But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the scroll until the end of time. Many will go back and forth and search anxiously [through the scroll], and knowledge [of the purpose of God as revealed by His prophets] will [greatly] increase.”

This is a prophecy that many see being fulfilled today. We have tools like Blue Letter Bible and Biblegateway that provide lexicons, concordances, Hebrew and Greek, and all kinds of commentaries to assist us in going back and forth through the word of God. I understand that some are frustrated by the study of the Bible as their are many bogus teachings and false teachers, but the reality is that knowledge has greatly increased.

If you are confused I would recommend you start with a few fundamental teachers that will give you a solid foundation in the word of God. Darby, Watchman Nee and Scofield. Are they perfect? No. Did they have erroneous teachings and issues in their own lives? Yes. The Fellowship of the Apostles is always the standard by which we measure everything, but these three will help you greatly to get into the word of God. Their teaching is not the word of God, but with a solid foundation you will understand how to read the word and you will avoid 95% of the false teachers and bogus teachings.

5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and behold, there stood two others, the one [angel] on this bank of the river and the other [angel] on that bank of the river. 6 And one said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be until the end of these wonders?” 7 And I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he held up his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and a half a time (three and a half years); and as soon as they finish shattering and crushing the power of the holy people, all these things will be finished.

This is a clear reference to the first half of the seven year tribulation and the ministry of the two witnesses.

8 As for me, I heard, but I did not understand; so I said, “My lord, what will be the outcome of these things?” 9 And the angel said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are concealed and sealed up until the end of time. 10 Many will be purged, purified (made white) and refined, but the wicked will behave wickedly. None of the wicked shall understand, but those who are [spiritually] wise will understand.

Jesus directly references this chapter in His discourse in Matthew 24 and this verse seems to be a direct reference to "no one knows the day or the hour". Jesus was speaking present tense at that time and here in Daniel we are told that the word will be sealed up until the end of time and only those who are "spiritually wise will understand". Isn't that what Jesus said when He explained what "no one" meant referring to Noah? Isn't that what his account of learning from the mistake of the Jewish leaders meant, that we need to be spiritually wise? Isn't this what He meant when He said some will be taken as close personal friends and He told us that He calls us friends because whatever He hears from the Father He tells us?