Can there be forgiveness without repentance?
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He said they will rule with Christ.
Your not going to rule with a rod of iron.. You do not have that ability. Only God does..
God always required blood which is why animals were killed, and why Christ shed his blood.
Rev 2 specifically says overcomers WILL rule with a rod of iron. They will have the ability.
Thread Title
Can there be forgiveness without repentance?
There can be no Salvation without Repentance -----Repentance is the first step in receiving Salvation ----
Repentance is a mind change ------one must come to the end of themselves and realize they are a sinner and in need of a Saviour ---unbelievers live in this world ---so they are not interested in Spiritual Repentance ----nor receiving God's Salvation -----
True Forgiveness is for Believers only -----it flows out of the believers Agape for God -------so it is a fruit of the Spirit ----
the first Commandment is -----
------this love ----Agape---- is a fruit of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit -------and true Forgiveness flows out of this Love -----as does compassion -----
We are to forgive all wrongs done to us and we do this __WHY --Because ----God forgave us first ---we were sinners ----filthy rages ---not worthy of God's forgiveness -----but God Forgave us anyway -----So we are to do the same -----Forgiveness is not about the other person repenting or doing anything at all ---it is all about us Loving God who forgave us and so to mature in our walk with Christ we must forgive the other person ----be it another believer who has wronged us or an unbeliever who has wronged us ----
Also ---we believers have to know that Satan is on the loose in this world and the person who wronged us just may have been influenced by Satan to wrong us --Satan is a tempter and has access to our thinking ---and hates God and believers -----so I think it is so freeing for believers to understand that you can love and forgive the person who is being nasty to you because you understand that the enemy may be at play here --and the person has been influenced to be nasty to you ------
So we see here -----Satan works in believers as well as unbelievers ------
John 13:2
Amplified Bible
2 It was during supper, when the devil had already put [the thought of] betraying Jesus into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son,
Ephesians 4:27
Amplified Bible
27 And do not give the devil an opportunity [to lead you into sin by holding a grudge, or nurturing anger, or harboring resentment, or cultivating bitterness].
Acts 5:3
Amplified Bible
3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and [secretly] keep back for yourself some of the proceeds [from the sale] of the land?
So if you go back and read JohnB's post -on page 3 post 58 ----where he talks about his brother -----
I am just posting this part of it ---
I told him, "GOD provided you with a roof over your head, food on the table and I gave you a car to use" He lifted both fist to heaven and screamed "F GOD" than let out a torrent of swear words at me. Would you forgive him or speak to him again?
Could this be he was influenced in his thoughts by the enemy ---to lash out -----
So his question here ----
Would you forgive him or speak to him again?
For me I would certainly forgive him and I speak to him ----as I Agape God and God forgave me ------and I am called to forgive others ------
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 5&version=AMP
Can there be forgiveness without repentance?
There can be no Salvation without Repentance -----Repentance is the first step in receiving Salvation ----
Repentance is a mind change ------one must come to the end of themselves and realize they are a sinner and in need of a Saviour ---unbelievers live in this world ---so they are not interested in Spiritual Repentance ----nor receiving God's Salvation -----
True Forgiveness is for Believers only -----it flows out of the believers Agape for God -------so it is a fruit of the Spirit ----
the first Commandment is -----
------this love ----Agape---- is a fruit of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit -------and true Forgiveness flows out of this Love -----as does compassion -----We are to forgive all wrongs done to us and we do this __WHY --Because ----God forgave us first ---we were sinners ----filthy rages ---not worthy of God's forgiveness -----but God Forgave us anyway -----So we are to do the same -----Forgiveness is not about the other person repenting or doing anything at all ---it is all about us Loving God who forgave us and so to mature in our walk with Christ we must forgive the other person ----be it another believer who has wronged us or an unbeliever who has wronged us ----
Also ---we believers have to know that Satan is on the loose in this world and the person who wronged us just may have been influenced by Satan to wrong us --Satan is a tempter and has access to our thinking ---and hates God and believers -----so I think it is so freeing for believers to understand that you can love and forgive the person who is being nasty to you because you understand that the enemy may be at play here --and the person has been influenced to be nasty to you ------
So we see here -----Satan works in believers as well as unbelievers ------
John 13:2
Amplified Bible
2 It was during supper, when the devil had already put [the thought of] betraying Jesus into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son,
Ephesians 4:27
Amplified Bible
27 And do not give the devil an opportunity [to lead you into sin by holding a grudge, or nurturing anger, or harboring resentment, or cultivating bitterness].
Acts 5:3
Amplified Bible
3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and [secretly] keep back for yourself some of the proceeds [from the sale] of the land?
So if you go back and read JohnB's post -on page 3 post 58 ----where he talks about his brother -----
I am just posting this part of it ---
I told him, "GOD provided you with a roof over your head, food on the table and I gave you a car to use" He lifted both fist to heaven and screamed "F GOD" than let out a torrent of swear words at me. Would you forgive him or speak to him again?
Could this be he was influenced in his thoughts by the enemy ---to lash out -----
So his question here ----
Would you forgive him or speak to him again?
For me I would certainly forgive him and I speak to him ----as I Agape God and God forgave me ------and I am called to forgive others ------
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 5&version=AMP
But not for forgiveness. First in the OT to "Cover SIN temporarily", and in Jesus case, to cleanse/remove it permanently. BIG DIFFFERENCE!!!
That doesn't come from the bible. The removal of sin in the OT was permanent and complete. It was just more involved and more difficult with Priests and animal sacrifice. Jesus died and fulfilled all that so it didn't have to happen over and over.
Lev_4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.
Lev_4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.
Lev_5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.
Lev_19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.
Num_15:25 And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
"Forgiveness" Doesn't require BLOOD. Cleansing from Sin does. That's why NOBODY was cleansed until Calvary after Jesus' PERFECT SIN OFFERING. (Heb 10:4)
Yes, and yes.
Would I take him into my home, provide for his needs, and hand-hold him through life?
No.
Forgiving is not being a doormat. Forgiving is not restoring relationship. Forgiving is not pretending that offenses never happened. Forgiving is not excusing bad behaviour.
Forgiving is releasing judgment and retribution to God.
This is false doctrine ------Folks -----The animal sacrifices were to---cover---- sin only for ! year and then the process had to be repeated to keep the sin covered ---it was not permanent ------it required a process ---every year -------to keep the Sin COVERED ------
Jesus who came under the Old Testament Law sacrifice Himself and that took away sin for all time for all people---no other sacrifices are needed for those who accept God's Graced gift of Salvation ------
I say
But that was not the case in the Old Testament sacrifices ------it COVERED SIN for a period of time only --
So we see here that Israel had to take part once a year in sacrificial atonement ------to keep their sin at bay ------
Leviticus 16:34
Expanded Bible
34 That ·law [statute; ordinance; requirement] for removing the sins of the Israelites ·so they will belong to the Lord [L and make atonement] will continue forever. You will do these things once a year.”
So they did the things the Lord had commanded Moses.
If you say so..
I will give that to God where it belongs and not take his glory
thank you
That was for any new sins. The old sins were forgiven as the multiple scriptures prove.
The bible says so.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Not every Christian has discernment.
Each one is on a journey.
Pride cannot say, “I don’t know”
Some grow (spiritually)
Some have stunted growth.
God, can, help us through our fellow believers, but …
Psalm 62:5 KJV
My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.
Each one has a duty,
To Repent and
To Forgive
Acts 17:30 KJV
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now
commandeth all men every where to repent:
Mark 11:25 KJV
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Ezekiel 3:19 KJV
Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
To Repent and
To Forgive
Acts 17:30 KJV
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now
commandeth all men every where to repent:
Mark 11:25 KJV
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Ezekiel 3:19 KJV
Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
The only person who could forgive Past --Present and Future sins is Jesus who Shed His blood for all sins for all time ------animal sacrifices only Covered sins for 1 year --and then had to be repeated ----and that was only for the Jews -----the Gentiles were not included in that -------
Your understanding of what the scripture is saying I believe is your own interpretation ---think you need to do some research on what you believe -----
The Blood of animals can never forgive all sin for all time nor can it take away sin ------and there is no scripture to say it can ----
He is jesus
again look to the OT, and in revelation. HE (Jesus) will rule with a rod of iron.
Jesus may use you to judge people or to set them straight;. But it is Jesus who rules..
stop taking credit away from jesus