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L
I know the gotcha game well.
The question is Still irrelevant.
I person responding to an emergency does not wualify them for long term association. An example is that there was an epidemic of emergency room nurses using pain killers prescribed to patients. While they did works of mercy and saving lives they were drug addicts stealing meds. Not the kind of person desireable to associate with. While at the same time one comming in on a stretcher did not demand drug testing for the attending nurse prior to recieving care.
The question is Still irrelevant.
I person responding to an emergency does not wualify them for long term association. An example is that there was an epidemic of emergency room nurses using pain killers prescribed to patients. While they did works of mercy and saving lives they were drug addicts stealing meds. Not the kind of person desireable to associate with. While at the same time one comming in on a stretcher did not demand drug testing for the attending nurse prior to recieving care.
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I find it rather difficult for me to respond to your request, as I detest addressing hypothetical scenarios in general principle, because they always fail, at some point. But also, that you request that I limit my response according to your parameters is also difficult. I must say that it seems to loosely follow a construct that has sometimes been used in law enforcement for use in (hostile) interrogations, lol.
I think that, for various reasons, this scenario would be unlikely to happen in my life… so I had to imagine that some random friend that I do know would take the place of “Donna”.
To answer your first question of what would go through my… lol, you don’t want to go there… suffice it to say that my mind would go into over-drive. Yes, I would feel betrayed… in large measure… but I’d also consider that “Donna” is presenting as vulnerable and taking a chance.
As to whether or not “Donna” is delusional… yes, that still applies. If “Donna” had, instead, stated that they were Napoleon Bonaparte, it would be similar to stating that they were of a sex other than that they were born to. The disparity is the same, imho.
As for pronouns, I think that I would be conflicted in regard to that. After all, I had previously been using feminine pronouns for the last four years… confusion, I think, would be par for the course and as I said earlier, I like to stick closely to truth. Perhaps you’ve already noticed the pronouns that I have elected to use so far? Also, I’d feel the same confusion in addressing my friend as “Donna”.
“Donna” is the one who just changed our relationship, and I would also feel the change. A friend has just revealed that they’ve been deceiving me for quite some time. While the deception is somewhat understandable, it is still deception. I would also tell “Donna” that although I was told “in confidence”, I’m essentially being told that they intend to maintain the deception with the rest of the congregation… I’d need time before I could commit to that… and that I see it as another deception for her/him to include me in such an enormous revelation of duplicity that has direct impact on the congregation with the opening caveat of “can I speak to you in confidence”… that’s entrapment, friends shouldn’t do that, imho.
I think that, for various reasons, this scenario would be unlikely to happen in my life… so I had to imagine that some random friend that I do know would take the place of “Donna”.
To answer your first question of what would go through my… lol, you don’t want to go there… suffice it to say that my mind would go into over-drive. Yes, I would feel betrayed… in large measure… but I’d also consider that “Donna” is presenting as vulnerable and taking a chance.
As to whether or not “Donna” is delusional… yes, that still applies. If “Donna” had, instead, stated that they were Napoleon Bonaparte, it would be similar to stating that they were of a sex other than that they were born to. The disparity is the same, imho.
As for pronouns, I think that I would be conflicted in regard to that. After all, I had previously been using feminine pronouns for the last four years… confusion, I think, would be par for the course and as I said earlier, I like to stick closely to truth. Perhaps you’ve already noticed the pronouns that I have elected to use so far? Also, I’d feel the same confusion in addressing my friend as “Donna”.
“Donna” is the one who just changed our relationship, and I would also feel the change. A friend has just revealed that they’ve been deceiving me for quite some time. While the deception is somewhat understandable, it is still deception. I would also tell “Donna” that although I was told “in confidence”, I’m essentially being told that they intend to maintain the deception with the rest of the congregation… I’d need time before I could commit to that… and that I see it as another deception for her/him to include me in such an enormous revelation of duplicity that has direct impact on the congregation with the opening caveat of “can I speak to you in confidence”… that’s entrapment, friends shouldn’t do that, imho.
I don't really know what the problem is with hypotheticals. Hypothetical situations may never arise in real life but that's not the point. How someone answers a hypothetical reveals their values. If a person can't answer--or refuses to answer--hypotheticals, it just says to me they haven't really thought about their own values or clarified them to themselves. They may be intelligent and have a lot of book smarts but they haven't really thought about how to apply this to real life. They're afraid of saying something that will expose their true heart.
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B
A well carefully thought out and respectful answer. Thank you.
My reason for presenting the scenario, though hypothetical, is to draw attention to the fact that such situations do in fact arise on occassion and whether or not we like it we may have to deal with it. For all you know there may be a transgendered in your church as we speak. I said, " may be"
Further, had "Donna" not revealed her past to you your friendship would likely have continued unaltered.
I'm not advocating transgenderism . Although I suppose I'm playing the devil's advocate a little in hoping people see the larger picture.
Since "Donna" transitioned 20+ years ago and had been successfully living as a woman and as a productive member of society are we as a body of believers to continue vilifying such individuals? Does there come a point where we must leave it in the Lord's hands and allow the Lord to judge this person's heart?
Yes, we must continue to preach the word and pray for all those suffering from mental afflictions. Can we tell someone, " living your life as you are living it is wrong in God's eyes but I still love and care about your well being as a person"
My reason for presenting the scenario, though hypothetical, is to draw attention to the fact that such situations do in fact arise on occassion and whether or not we like it we may have to deal with it. For all you know there may be a transgendered in your church as we speak. I said, " may be"
Further, had "Donna" not revealed her past to you your friendship would likely have continued unaltered.
I'm not advocating transgenderism . Although I suppose I'm playing the devil's advocate a little in hoping people see the larger picture.
Since "Donna" transitioned 20+ years ago and had been successfully living as a woman and as a productive member of society are we as a body of believers to continue vilifying such individuals? Does there come a point where we must leave it in the Lord's hands and allow the Lord to judge this person's heart?
Yes, we must continue to preach the word and pray for all those suffering from mental afflictions. Can we tell someone, " living your life as you are living it is wrong in God's eyes but I still love and care about your well being as a person"
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You say "Donna" has been living a successful life... surely we both know that's a relativistic term, what do you mean by successful, if "Donna" is living with the heavy burden of the secret? And, if my opinion of delusion is correct... is that a successful life if there's remedy out there? You say that you care about their wellbeing, so what if you saw "Donna's" case as living in delusion?
I really do try hard to not judge a person's heart... I've done it the past and am not proud of it. I do believe that many people, including Christians, do it way to casually... often without realizing and would deny it if confronted. I think an approach that includes letting transgenders that we believe they're doing "wrong" in God's eyes but that both we and God do love them very much is a good start.
I really do try hard to not judge a person's heart... I've done it the past and am not proud of it. I do believe that many people, including Christians, do it way to casually... often without realizing and would deny it if confronted. I think an approach that includes letting transgenders that we believe they're doing "wrong" in God's eyes but that both we and God do love them very much is a good start.
B
Very well stated ResidentAlien! May I add that all of us are faced with hypotheticals often, including those here who avoid answering such questions because they say they are hypothetical in nature and are pointless.
How might we deal with the news we have been diagnosed with a terminal illness? That's a hypothetical question.
What will you do if your bank goes under water? Another hypothetical.
What would you do if while on the operating table you were told the surgeon about to perform surgery on you is gay? Another hypothetical!
Whether or not to purchase home insurance is based on hypotheticals.
How might we deal with the news we have been diagnosed with a terminal illness? That's a hypothetical question.
What will you do if your bank goes under water? Another hypothetical.
What would you do if while on the operating table you were told the surgeon about to perform surgery on you is gay? Another hypothetical!
Whether or not to purchase home insurance is based on hypotheticals.
B
Success" for "Donna" would likely be one of being at peace, content and happy with " herself". The secret of her past may in fact not be as burdensome as some think. She feels no obligation to reveal to anyone her past nor should she except in special circumstances. For example, her primary caregiver. Her pastor, if she sought membership. A lover.
That might be some people's opinion of hypotheticals, but certainly not mine. And I find believe that mindset both offensive and sophomoric. Sophomoric because it's remarkably naive, not understanding how/why hypothetical questioning is often employed. Offensive, because you presuppose that someone who shies away is "guilty" of something. (Which is how hypotheticals are often employed... to prove the person as "wrong" at some level.
For me, hypotheticals are rather similar to role playing games, like D&D, etc. Pure myth and specious... too many tangential issues are always at play that could be hugely important to the one being asked to comment, that the questioner has never considered.
For me, hypotheticals are rather similar to role playing games, like D&D, etc. Pure myth and specious... too many tangential issues are always at play that could be hugely important to the one being asked to comment, that the questioner has never considered.
Hmm, okay.
But while "peace" might be a biblical idea that a Christian might look for in their walk with God... I can't imagine that's it's promised for anyone living in active rebellion to God.
As for "happiness", I believe that to be a humanistic goal... very prevalent in our modern society. And rather pernicious at that. I don't find it much in the Scriptures.
Remember, "Donna" just unburdened herself to me... hypothetically.
But while "peace" might be a biblical idea that a Christian might look for in their walk with God... I can't imagine that's it's promised for anyone living in active rebellion to God.
As for "happiness", I believe that to be a humanistic goal... very prevalent in our modern society. And rather pernicious at that. I don't find it much in the Scriptures.
Remember, "Donna" just unburdened herself to me... hypothetically.
This is the typical response of someone who is afraid of hypotheticals. Rather than simply answer, they have to change the question.
For example: What would you do if you were walking along and found someone in the ditch, badly in need of help? Would you first want to know if this person is your "neighbor?" Or would you say: Hmmm, I wonder how long this person has been here. Do they really need help or have they only been there a few minutes, so they're probably okay for now? Maybe if I stop to help I won't make it home for dinner on time. I wonder if the person in this scenario has a cell phone to call the wife if he stops to help and will be late getting home. On and On and on. My only question would be: What's the right thing to do?
For example: What would you do if you were walking along and found someone in the ditch, badly in need of help? Would you first want to know if this person is your "neighbor?" Or would you say: Hmmm, I wonder how long this person has been here. Do they really need help or have they only been there a few minutes, so they're probably okay for now? Maybe if I stop to help I won't make it home for dinner on time. I wonder if the person in this scenario has a cell phone to call the wife if he stops to help and will be late getting home. On and On and on. My only question would be: What's the right thing to do?
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Well, you got me... I am afraid of hypotheticals... and the people that love to use them.
Trying to associate/compare hypothetical questions and questioning to parables and those especially from Jesus seems to be a horrible mistake... a thorough misunderstanding of the definitions of the two things.
Talk about a swing and a miss... you're out!!
Trying to associate/compare hypothetical questions and questioning to parables and those especially from Jesus seems to be a horrible mistake... a thorough misunderstanding of the definitions of the two things.
Talk about a swing and a miss... you're out!!
B
You are assuming it was a burden.
Secondly, your take on hypotheticals is too limited in my opinion. Presenting a hypothetical does not necessarily translate into entrapment or a " gotcha" moment. Although it is sometimes used in those ways. Hypotheticals can also be used to get someone to see a different point of view. Or to see the fallacy in the person's reasoning. I have no issue with hypotheticals.
Secondly, your take on hypotheticals is too limited in my opinion. Presenting a hypothetical does not necessarily translate into entrapment or a " gotcha" moment. Although it is sometimes used in those ways. Hypotheticals can also be used to get someone to see a different point of view. Or to see the fallacy in the person's reasoning. I have no issue with hypotheticals.
Okay.
I would like to point out that you and another posted about the use of hypotheticals being a "Gotcha" type of thing... so that concept was very much in play with both of you prior to this thread, RA thought the same concept of the hypotheticals as well. Hypothetical scenarios, et al, are very much used as "gotcha" devices... that you're using them otherwise in this thread is less normative... imho.
Your hypothetical scenario had "Donna" sharing the secret with me... your idea of it being innocent in the scenario wasn't included, therefore the one being asked are free to inject their own worldview on it. (Thus, I hope that you can begin to see the inherent problem with hypotheticals in the first place.)
I would like to point out that you and another posted about the use of hypotheticals being a "Gotcha" type of thing... so that concept was very much in play with both of you prior to this thread, RA thought the same concept of the hypotheticals as well. Hypothetical scenarios, et al, are very much used as "gotcha" devices... that you're using them otherwise in this thread is less normative... imho.
Your hypothetical scenario had "Donna" sharing the secret with me... your idea of it being innocent in the scenario wasn't included, therefore the one being asked are free to inject their own worldview on it. (Thus, I hope that you can begin to see the inherent problem with hypotheticals in the first place.)