The Trinity
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when given direct Scripture that blatantly shows that Jesus, did in fact, claim Himself as the The Living God. the majority of humanity would concede their opposing position. but in the case scenario you are discussing, skirting, is taking place, unless it's something agreed upon.
if you watch video of AI interaction, like, asking the AI, if programmed, would you kill a human being, that you are now programmed to protect and serve?
every answer but yes/no is given.
in this case scenario, proof that Jesus claimed He was The Living God, disputed not by yes/no, but rather, attack the Language, when the Langue, that its own foundations are built upon, are proven to be faulty with written fact. and, then, you skirt around the issue. no human should be so blind, when fact is given, to keep denying, even though, it happens all the time. but if this discussion was with an AI, the AI, would never concede to Fact and Truth.
if you watch video of AI interaction, like, asking the AI, if programmed, would you kill a human being, that you are now programmed to protect and serve?
every answer but yes/no is given.
in this case scenario, proof that Jesus claimed He was The Living God, disputed not by yes/no, but rather, attack the Language, when the Langue, that its own foundations are built upon, are proven to be faulty with written fact. and, then, you skirt around the issue. no human should be so blind, when fact is given, to keep denying, even though, it happens all the time. but if this discussion was with an AI, the AI, would never concede to Fact and Truth.
this is the same standard answer to around 65% and consistent you offer to every question before it has to be explained again
this bothers me ^
you don't know what John 14:28 says, but still, "without reading all the Books, Chapters, Verses, to get a Completed View, You have a Doctrine, based upon, the Verses that evidently You Do Know what it says?
hundreds of thousands of Verses, that literally paint One Picture, and you don't know many of them.
but still yet, You, have a Doctrine, You believe in enough to challenge the Deity of Christ.
how convenient is that?
how can i take You serious?
You only know, basically, what You choose to want to know.
evidently, the rest of the Bible, is just ink and words on parchment, to you?
you don't know what John 14:28 says, but still, "without reading all the Books, Chapters, Verses, to get a Completed View, You have a Doctrine, based upon, the Verses that evidently You Do Know what it says?
hundreds of thousands of Verses, that literally paint One Picture, and you don't know many of them.
but still yet, You, have a Doctrine, You believe in enough to challenge the Deity of Christ.
how convenient is that?
how can i take You serious?
You only know, basically, what You choose to want to know.
evidently, the rest of the Bible, is just ink and words on parchment, to you?
Yes. I believe God is a community of three distinct persons or centres of consciousness who are each omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, but the distinct centre of consciousness identified as the Son gave up the infinite reach of His omni traits to experience a limited human consciousness such as Adam had. Jesus lived a sinless life, thus proving tjat Adam's sin was not a design flaw but a free will failure by Adam to trust God and avail himself of God's grace to walk in the truth.
In his kenotic incarnation the distinct divine centre of consciousness called the Son was a human being dependent on God's grace received by faith. He was the same person who was with the Father and creating all things, but that same centre of consciousness became limited in consciousness to a human's conscious reach. So between His conception and his glorification on resurrection Sunday (John 20: 17) the Father was indeed greater than our Lord.
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It sounds contradictory for you to say, "Willful submission *to rely on the Holy Spirit* as he was in the flesh, which is limited. Jesus was not Omnipresent in the flesh..."
And then to say, "In his earthly state of being, he was tired and hungry and was also thirsty. *Yet he knew all things and had the Power of God without Measure*. He controlled the weather and seas."
And then to say, "In his earthly state of being, he was tired and hungry and was also thirsty. *Yet he knew all things and had the Power of God without Measure*. He controlled the weather and seas."
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He said that He was, so believe Him. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13) Is the last clause in the present tense? Christ was speaking on earth at the time that He said that the Son of Man is STILL in Heaven. How do you reconcile that, unless you believe that He is the Lord God Almighty (with the Father and the Spirit)? Christ set aside His glory and majesty to become a Man, but that is all.
As for what Christ said about not knowing the hour, that cannot be extended past the actual context. After His resurrection, God gave Him all power and authority, which means that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is hidden from Him. God has put all tings in His hands.
As for what Christ said about not knowing the hour, that cannot be extended past the actual context. After His resurrection, God gave Him all power and authority, which means that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is hidden from Him. God has put all tings in His hands.
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Hi, Nehemiah6.
I would confidently suggest that John 3:10-21 is not all words coming from Jesus to Nicodemus. John 3:10-12 are Jesus words to Nicodemus, but John 3:13-21 are parenthetical commentary being stated by the author, John, writing after Jesus had returned to the Father..
If this is correct, then it is not Jesus, who came down from heaven and would ascend to the Father after his resurrection, who was claiming to have already ascended into heaven and to be in heaven at the same time as he was talking to Nicodemus on earth. It is John, writing after Jesus had returned to heaven, telling us that "no one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, and is in heaven, the Son of Man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of Man had to be lifted up (hupsOthEnai dei: aorist passive infinitive) , that the one believing (ho piseuOn) on Him may have aeonous life."
I agree with your other point.
"As for what Christ said about not knowing the hour, that cannot be extended past the actual context. After His resurrection, God gave Him all power and authority, which means that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is hidden from Him. God has put all things in His hands."
I would confidently suggest that John 3:10-21 is not all words coming from Jesus to Nicodemus. John 3:10-12 are Jesus words to Nicodemus, but John 3:13-21 are parenthetical commentary being stated by the author, John, writing after Jesus had returned to the Father..
If this is correct, then it is not Jesus, who came down from heaven and would ascend to the Father after his resurrection, who was claiming to have already ascended into heaven and to be in heaven at the same time as he was talking to Nicodemus on earth. It is John, writing after Jesus had returned to heaven, telling us that "no one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, and is in heaven, the Son of Man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of Man had to be lifted up (hupsOthEnai dei: aorist passive infinitive) , that the one believing (ho piseuOn) on Him may have aeonous life."
I agree with your other point.
"As for what Christ said about not knowing the hour, that cannot be extended past the actual context. After His resurrection, God gave Him all power and authority, which means that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is hidden from Him. God has put all things in His hands."
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I am sorry but you are seriously MISTAKEN for the following reasons:
1. There is total continuity from verse 5 to verse 21.
2. My Bible shows those as the words of Christ in red, and I believe the ones who put this Bible together were guided by the Spirit.
3. There is divine authority in what is being said all the way through.
4. Starting at verse 11 Christ says that He is making heavenly revelations. And then He talks about the Son of Man.
5. Since Christ as God is omnipresent, there is total credibility in the statement about Him being on earth and Heaven at the same time.
6. John's narrative continues from verse 22.
7. What John writes from verses 31 to 36 actually confirms the fact that Christ was the one speaking earlier.
1. There is total continuity from verse 5 to verse 21.
2. My Bible shows those as the words of Christ in red, and I believe the ones who put this Bible together were guided by the Spirit.
3. There is divine authority in what is being said all the way through.
4. Starting at verse 11 Christ says that He is making heavenly revelations. And then He talks about the Son of Man.
5. Since Christ as God is omnipresent, there is total credibility in the statement about Him being on earth and Heaven at the same time.
6. John's narrative continues from verse 22.
7. What John writes from verses 31 to 36 actually confirms the fact that Christ was the one speaking earlier.
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that is because you don't know the word of God. There is the state of fallen man, which is sin that is why we die physically. FYI, Jesus, who was not born with a sinful nature but was and is very much a human being with a BODY THAT COULD DIE A DEATH TO COMPLETE THE PURPOSE FOR WICH HE CAME.
That same Body was resurrected by the Power of God, which Jesus had the ability and power to do. The death of Jesus and his resurrection from the dead are Eternal truths. You would be right IF Jesus did not resurrect from the DEAD.
There is no contradictory.
That same Body was resurrected by the Power of God, which Jesus had the ability and power to do. The death of Jesus and his resurrection from the dead are Eternal truths. You would be right IF Jesus did not resurrect from the DEAD.
There is no contradictory.
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If Jesus was a man relying on the Holy Spirit to speak and do God's will, then there is no reason to suppose Jesus still had access to His pre-incarnate omni abilities while living in dependence on the Holy Spirit. Why would the Lord need to have omnipowers while living a human life using the Holy Spirit's power?
Hi, Nehemiah6.
The original biblical rext was written USINGONLYCAPITALLETTERSWITHNOCHAPTERORVERSEBREAKSORNUMBERSNORPUNCTUATIONNORREDINK.
Are you insisting that the text makes no logical sense when read taking 3:13-21 as John commenting?
How do you see John the Baptist's words in vv31-36 confirming that it was Jesus speaking in vv. 13-2?
The original biblical rext was written USINGONLYCAPITALLETTERSWITHNOCHAPTERORVERSEBREAKSORNUMBERSNORPUNCTUATIONNORREDINK.
Are you insisting that the text makes no logical sense when read taking 3:13-21 as John commenting?
How do you see John the Baptist's words in vv31-36 confirming that it was Jesus speaking in vv. 13-2?
Before the distinct centre of consciousness (person) incarnated into a single-cell human zygote, that person's consciouness encompassed all things. Nothing existing was outside the reach of His presence, His power or His knowledge. But at the incarnation, I believe His consciousness, power, presence and knowledge reduced to those of a human zygote and they grew as he developed into a baby, a child, a youth and an adult. The Person incarnating was the same one who had no beginning and created the cosmos in unison with the Father and Holy Spirit.
It's a semantic riddle to determine whether still being an eternal Creator Person but divesting oneself of omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience can be called giving up deity or Godhood.
It's a semantic riddle to determine whether still being an eternal Creator Person but divesting oneself of omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience can be called giving up deity or Godhood.
that is because he had not yet been glorified nor had he died and rose again. Jesus before the Cross in John chapter one at his water baptism you will see that John bore recorded Jesus received upon him the Spirit of God and to show what would happen to the Church once we died and rose again. Jesus life before the cross and Jesus after resurrection. The Holy Spirit is God
The early church councils met, discussed, and wrote about this issue, stating clearly that Christ was God, and contrary views were heresy.
- The council of Nicea in 325 discussed and clearly proclaimed the deity of Christ... that Christ was God.
- The council of Chalcedon in 451 clearly discussed and proclaimed Christ was God... with specific focus on the hypostatic union
The early church fathers held that Christ was God - the works or Ignatius and Polycarp were especially clear on this.
- Ignatius of Antioch (50-117 AD) clearly said Christ was God in his writings.
- Polycarp of Smyrna (69-155 AD) clearly said Christ was God in his writings.
(These ante-Nicene church fathers were alive during the ministry of the original apostles.)
Those are a few quick examples.
-The early church fathers clearly stated that Christ was God, and the early church councils stated that Christ was God, and they specifically called other views heretical.
- The quick examples I gave span from the 1st to 5th Century... that's pretty early in church history.
Have a great week.
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- The council of Nicea in 325 discussed and clearly proclaimed the deity of Christ... that Christ was God.
- The council of Chalcedon in 451 clearly discussed and proclaimed Christ was God... with specific focus on the hypostatic union
The early church fathers held that Christ was God - the works or Ignatius and Polycarp were especially clear on this.
- Ignatius of Antioch (50-117 AD) clearly said Christ was God in his writings.
- Polycarp of Smyrna (69-155 AD) clearly said Christ was God in his writings.
(These ante-Nicene church fathers were alive during the ministry of the original apostles.)
Those are a few quick examples.
-The early church fathers clearly stated that Christ was God, and the early church councils stated that Christ was God, and they specifically called other views heretical.
- The quick examples I gave span from the 1st to 5th Century... that's pretty early in church history.
Have a great week.
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As the following quotes show, the early Church Fathers (2nd to 5th Centuries in this case) recognized that Jesus Christ is God and were adamant in maintaining this precious truth.
Ignatius of Antioch
“Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).
“For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).
“[T]o the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is” (Letter to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).
Aristides
“[Christians] are they who, above every people of the earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the Creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit” (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).
Tatian the Syrian
“We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man” (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).
Melito of Sardis
“The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the Deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism, of his humanity, in the thirty years which came before his baptism, during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages” (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai’s The Guide 13 [A.D. 177]).
Irenaeus
“For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them; and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who announced through the prophets the dispensations and the comings, and the birth from a Virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus our Lord, and his coming from heaven in the glory of the Father to reestablish all things; and the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
“Nevertheless, what cannot be said of anyone else who ever lived, that he is himself in his own right God and Lord . . . may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth” (ibid., 3:19:1).
Clement of Alexandria
“The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning—for he was in God—and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things” (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [A.D. 190]).
“Despised as to appearance but in reality adored, [Jesus is] the expiator, the Savior, the soother, the divine Word, he that is quite evidently true God, he that is put on a level with the Lord of the universe because he was his Son” (ibid., 10:110:1).
Tertullian
“The origins of both his substances display him as man and as God: from the one, born, and from the other, not born” (The Flesh of Christ 5:6–7 [A.D. 210]).
“That there are two gods and two Lords, however, is a statement which we will never allow to issue from our mouth; not as if the Father and the Son were not God, nor the Spirit God, and each of them God; but formerly two were spoken of as gods and two as Lords, so that when Christ would come, he might both be acknowledged as God and be called Lord, because he is the Son of him who is both God and Lord” (Against Praxeas 13:6 [A.D. 216]).
Origen
“Although he was God, he took flesh; and having been made man, he remained what he was: God” (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:0:4 [A.D. 225]).
Hippolytus
“Only [God’s] Word is from himself and is therefore also God, becoming the substance of God” (Refutation of All Heresies 10:33 [A.D. 228]).
“For Christ is the God over all, who has arranged to wash away sin from mankind, rendering the old man new” (ibid., 10:34).
Novatian
“If Christ was only man, why did he lay down for us such a rule of believing as that in which he said, ‘And this is life eternal, that they should know you, the only and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent?’ [John 17:3]. Had he not wished that he also should be understood to be God, why did he add, ‘And Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent,’ except because he wished to be received as God also? Because if he had not wished to be understood to be God, he would have added, ‘And the man Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent;’ but, in fact, he neither added this, nor did Christ deliver himself to us as man only, but associated himself with God, as he wished to be understood by this conjunction to be God also, as he is.” (Treatise on the Trinity 16 [A.D. 235]).
Cyprian of Carthage
“One who denies that Christ is God cannot become his temple [of the Holy Spirit]” (Letters 73:12 [A.D. 253]).
Gregory the Wonderworker
“There is one God, the Father of the living Word, who is his subsistent wisdom and power and eternal image: perfect begetter of the perfect begotten, Father of the only-begotten Son. There is one Lord, only of the only, God of God, image and likeness of deity, efficient Word, wisdom comprehensive of the constitution of all things, and power formative of the whole creation, true Son of true Father, invisible of invisible, and incorruptible of incorruptible, and immortal of immortal and eternal of eternal. . . . And thus neither was the Son ever wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation and without change, the same Trinity abides ever” (Declaration of Faith [A.D. 265]).
Arnobius
“‘Well, then,’ some raging, angry, and excited man will say, ‘is that Christ your God?’ ‘God indeed,’ we shall answer, ‘and God of the hidden powers’” (Against the Pagans 1:42 [A.D. 305]).
Lactantius
“He was made both Son of God in the spirit and Son of man in the flesh, that is, both God and man” (Divine Institutes 4:13:5 [A.D. 307]).
“We, on the other hand, are [truly] religious, who make our supplications to the one true God. Someone may perhaps ask how, when we say that we worship one God only, we nevertheless assert that there are two, God the Father and God the Son—which assertion has driven many into the greatest error . . . [thinking] that we confess that there is another God, and that he is mortal. . . . [But w]hen we speak of God the Father and God the Son, we do not speak of them as different, nor do we separate each, because the Father cannot exist without the Son, nor can the Son be separated from the Father” (ibid., 4:28–29).
Council of Nicaea I
“We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made” (Creed of Nicaea [A.D. 325]).
“But those who say, ‘There was a time when he [the Son] did not exist,’ and ‘Before he was born, he did not exist,’ and ‘Because he was made from non-existing matter, he is either of another substance or essence,’ and those who call ‘God the Son of God changeable and mutable,’ these the Catholic Church anathematizes” (Appendix to the Creed of Nicaea [A.D. 325]).
Patrick of Ireland
“Jesus Christ is the Lord and God in whom we believe, and whose coming we expect will soon take place, the judge of the living and the dead, who will render to everyone according to his works” (Confession of St. Patrick 4 [A.D. 452]).
~Deuteronomy (David)
Ignatius of Antioch
“Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).
“For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).
“[T]o the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is” (Letter to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).
Aristides
“[Christians] are they who, above every people of the earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the Creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit” (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).
Tatian the Syrian
“We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man” (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).
Melito of Sardis
“The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the Deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism, of his humanity, in the thirty years which came before his baptism, during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages” (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai’s The Guide 13 [A.D. 177]).
Irenaeus
“For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them; and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who announced through the prophets the dispensations and the comings, and the birth from a Virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus our Lord, and his coming from heaven in the glory of the Father to reestablish all things; and the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
“Nevertheless, what cannot be said of anyone else who ever lived, that he is himself in his own right God and Lord . . . may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth” (ibid., 3:19:1).
Clement of Alexandria
“The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning—for he was in God—and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things” (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [A.D. 190]).
“Despised as to appearance but in reality adored, [Jesus is] the expiator, the Savior, the soother, the divine Word, he that is quite evidently true God, he that is put on a level with the Lord of the universe because he was his Son” (ibid., 10:110:1).
Tertullian
“The origins of both his substances display him as man and as God: from the one, born, and from the other, not born” (The Flesh of Christ 5:6–7 [A.D. 210]).
“That there are two gods and two Lords, however, is a statement which we will never allow to issue from our mouth; not as if the Father and the Son were not God, nor the Spirit God, and each of them God; but formerly two were spoken of as gods and two as Lords, so that when Christ would come, he might both be acknowledged as God and be called Lord, because he is the Son of him who is both God and Lord” (Against Praxeas 13:6 [A.D. 216]).
Origen
“Although he was God, he took flesh; and having been made man, he remained what he was: God” (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:0:4 [A.D. 225]).
Hippolytus
“Only [God’s] Word is from himself and is therefore also God, becoming the substance of God” (Refutation of All Heresies 10:33 [A.D. 228]).
“For Christ is the God over all, who has arranged to wash away sin from mankind, rendering the old man new” (ibid., 10:34).
Novatian
“If Christ was only man, why did he lay down for us such a rule of believing as that in which he said, ‘And this is life eternal, that they should know you, the only and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent?’ [John 17:3]. Had he not wished that he also should be understood to be God, why did he add, ‘And Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent,’ except because he wished to be received as God also? Because if he had not wished to be understood to be God, he would have added, ‘And the man Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent;’ but, in fact, he neither added this, nor did Christ deliver himself to us as man only, but associated himself with God, as he wished to be understood by this conjunction to be God also, as he is.” (Treatise on the Trinity 16 [A.D. 235]).
Cyprian of Carthage
“One who denies that Christ is God cannot become his temple [of the Holy Spirit]” (Letters 73:12 [A.D. 253]).
Gregory the Wonderworker
“There is one God, the Father of the living Word, who is his subsistent wisdom and power and eternal image: perfect begetter of the perfect begotten, Father of the only-begotten Son. There is one Lord, only of the only, God of God, image and likeness of deity, efficient Word, wisdom comprehensive of the constitution of all things, and power formative of the whole creation, true Son of true Father, invisible of invisible, and incorruptible of incorruptible, and immortal of immortal and eternal of eternal. . . . And thus neither was the Son ever wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation and without change, the same Trinity abides ever” (Declaration of Faith [A.D. 265]).
Arnobius
“‘Well, then,’ some raging, angry, and excited man will say, ‘is that Christ your God?’ ‘God indeed,’ we shall answer, ‘and God of the hidden powers’” (Against the Pagans 1:42 [A.D. 305]).
Lactantius
“He was made both Son of God in the spirit and Son of man in the flesh, that is, both God and man” (Divine Institutes 4:13:5 [A.D. 307]).
“We, on the other hand, are [truly] religious, who make our supplications to the one true God. Someone may perhaps ask how, when we say that we worship one God only, we nevertheless assert that there are two, God the Father and God the Son—which assertion has driven many into the greatest error . . . [thinking] that we confess that there is another God, and that he is mortal. . . . [But w]hen we speak of God the Father and God the Son, we do not speak of them as different, nor do we separate each, because the Father cannot exist without the Son, nor can the Son be separated from the Father” (ibid., 4:28–29).
Council of Nicaea I
“We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made” (Creed of Nicaea [A.D. 325]).
“But those who say, ‘There was a time when he [the Son] did not exist,’ and ‘Before he was born, he did not exist,’ and ‘Because he was made from non-existing matter, he is either of another substance or essence,’ and those who call ‘God the Son of God changeable and mutable,’ these the Catholic Church anathematizes” (Appendix to the Creed of Nicaea [A.D. 325]).
Patrick of Ireland
“Jesus Christ is the Lord and God in whom we believe, and whose coming we expect will soon take place, the judge of the living and the dead, who will render to everyone according to his works” (Confession of St. Patrick 4 [A.D. 452]).
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