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Why is it that you believe that scripture is complete? And why is it that you think there were only four factual records of Jesus' life taken. Imagine for a moment if three others completed a factual documentation of Jesus' life however the records were destroyed during the initial persecution of the church. Do those books those once created but now destroyed find themselves discredited because they were never approved by a council of men?
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There are 2 different matters here, there is a term prophecy and there are the Prophets. Whether are not
there is prophecy today is a whole different subject. For instance if you say a person manifested a
prophecy then he gave words for edification, exhortation, and comfort. This would not make that person
a Prophet.
Im focusing on the Office of the Prophet, who spoke directly for God 100% accurate all the time.
Im planning to start a new thread.
Your criteria and justification for how you live your life is protecting yourself by charging others, who oppose your doctrine, with blaspheming the Holy Spirit. That is your choice and when you charge the church or any member of the church body with this accusation, you are charging them with evil and telling them they are in danger of eternal damnation (Mk 3:29). You do realize that, right? If you are wrong, in the same measure that you judge you shall be judged, but if you judge according to mercy you shall be judged by mercy, for mercy rejoiceth against judgment (Mt 7:1,2, Rom 2;1, Jm 2:12,13). Do you understand that? Is this the basis that you believe has come from the Spirit for Christ judging his church along with their sin that has already been judged through the cross?
For the grace of God that brings salvation and has appeared unto all men, teaches every believer to deny ungodliness and worldly lust and to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11,12). This is what graces teaches us and that is what we minister to one another as good stewards of the manifold (many sided) grace of God (1Pt 4:10).
We have peace with God and are made one by Christ through the blood of the cross (Eph 2:16, Col 1:20) and that happened by faith and through faith when we believed (Rom 5:1, Phil 3:9, Rom 3:22,30). That is not arrogance, that is mercy and grace from God to undeserving sinners. Do you believe the work you are doing is from the Holy Spirit and those that speak against you are charging you with an unclean spirit? Is telling you to go have a beer, that you enjoy doing, an act of judging you and speaking evil against you? If you were gracious and merciful to the church and functioned in the love of God toward the church, you would have opposition from another source, as many of us do.
In (1Cor 14) we are instructed that those who prophesy (speak God's word) should edify the church (v.4). In (v.5) the church is to receive edification. In (v.12) those that are gifted by God are TO EXCEL to the edifying of the church. DO YOU DO THAT and DO YOU PRACTICE THAT TOWARD THE CHURCH?. If not, then you are disqualified and disobedient and do not have grace in your heart no matter how much you practice the presence of God or think you draw near to God. If you were hearing the voice of God and drawing near to His presence then you would be overwhelmed by His mercy and grace and would minister that mercy and grace to His church that He has redeemed with His own blood.
Jesus came from heaven and from the presence and glory of the Father, and He came by grace and truth to seek and save the lost and bring sinners to repentance. Is that what you are practicing in your faith and are you being motivated by the same love that sent Christ into the world to save sinners? For God so loved the world that He gave CHRIST... If God gave the world CHRIST, then what should we be giving the church that has been called out of the world and who has been redeemed by the blood of CHRIST? You be the judge but my judgment is for mercy and grace.
For the grace of God that brings salvation and has appeared unto all men, teaches every believer to deny ungodliness and worldly lust and to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11,12). This is what graces teaches us and that is what we minister to one another as good stewards of the manifold (many sided) grace of God (1Pt 4:10).
We have peace with God and are made one by Christ through the blood of the cross (Eph 2:16, Col 1:20) and that happened by faith and through faith when we believed (Rom 5:1, Phil 3:9, Rom 3:22,30). That is not arrogance, that is mercy and grace from God to undeserving sinners. Do you believe the work you are doing is from the Holy Spirit and those that speak against you are charging you with an unclean spirit? Is telling you to go have a beer, that you enjoy doing, an act of judging you and speaking evil against you? If you were gracious and merciful to the church and functioned in the love of God toward the church, you would have opposition from another source, as many of us do.
In (1Cor 14) we are instructed that those who prophesy (speak God's word) should edify the church (v.4). In (v.5) the church is to receive edification. In (v.12) those that are gifted by God are TO EXCEL to the edifying of the church. DO YOU DO THAT and DO YOU PRACTICE THAT TOWARD THE CHURCH?. If not, then you are disqualified and disobedient and do not have grace in your heart no matter how much you practice the presence of God or think you draw near to God. If you were hearing the voice of God and drawing near to His presence then you would be overwhelmed by His mercy and grace and would minister that mercy and grace to His church that He has redeemed with His own blood.
Jesus came from heaven and from the presence and glory of the Father, and He came by grace and truth to seek and save the lost and bring sinners to repentance. Is that what you are practicing in your faith and are you being motivated by the same love that sent Christ into the world to save sinners? For God so loved the world that He gave CHRIST... If God gave the world CHRIST, then what should we be giving the church that has been called out of the world and who has been redeemed by the blood of CHRIST? You be the judge but my judgment is for mercy and grace.
your song and dance is boring, and Christ-less.
you COULD learn from Red who knows about Grace, and The Finished Work, and the Church.
but you resist and undermine him at every turn.
NOT YOUR JOB TO TELL CHRISTIANS ANYTHING!
you're a false prophet trying to usurp the Holy Spirit's Commission.
why do you TEMPT GOD this way?
why do you dance on the precipice of hell VW?
you COULD learn from Red who knows about Grace, and The Finished Work, and the Church.
but you resist and undermine him at every turn.
NOT YOUR JOB TO TELL CHRISTIANS ANYTHING!
you're a false prophet trying to usurp the Holy Spirit's Commission.
why do you TEMPT GOD this way?
why do you dance on the precipice of hell VW?
Forgive my over simplification on the answers, but it seems to me, people will believe what they believe. And if the Holy Spirit doesn't convince you otherwise, then how will I, a mere mortal do. So I will answer your questions out of courtecy, not to impress you. I am not here for debate. I share what I know for a fact is real. If you choose not to believe me, I will not convince you, nor will I try. I will try my best to reach those who have gifts to explain to them what is going on with them so that they don't feel totally like outcasts in the world of christianity, while people that try on to figure things out can go on with what they are doing.
So to your questions.
1 Why do you think the office of Apostles and Prophets are in the church today?
For exactly the same reason as to why they were initially created. For the edification and equiping of the saints and to spread the gospel of peace.
2 What would they accomplish if they were?
If they are trained as Jesus taught His disciples one can expect the exact same thing from them, them using their gifts to their full potential for the edification and equipment of the body of Christ. And it would look the same as well. People going about aiding others. Miracles flowing, etc.
3 And do you think it matters as I do seeing all the False Apostles and False Prophets?
False Apostles and False Prophets are a part of life, just like their is false Christians. One cannot deny it. One can try to teach the young not to fall into their traps. But most of the time you have to aid them to get out of their own traps. You see in the time of Jesus who was commonly noticed as the false teachers...the pharisees. Yet they swore that they did correct and everyone should follow their example. We all know what Jesus thought about it. Today in the Christian world unfortunately people have become so misguided that they seek their knowledge from other men and books and try to manipulate answers according to what they belief. Few are actually listening to the Holy Spirit and ask Him truthfully what is the truth on a matter with an open mind. It is they that teach others their beliefs, which they have researched and discovered. But they did not take the time to consult Him Who has all the answers. It is they that are teaching falsely, because if your teaching does not come from the Holy Spirit, how then can you state that your teaching is truthful for the person you are giving it to. You see, just because something is truthful for you does not make it truthful. Example. Let's say you do not (per example) have the gift of a prophet, but you have the gift of talking fluently and gaining others trust easily. To you sensing what the prophet sense, would be not true. For you do not sense what he sense. You would not even know what the prophet experience. But your knowledge would be around how well you can speak to others and how well you can resolve issues using wisdom and your skill in words. So is the fact that supernatural senses exist that you can literally "see" things and "hear" things in the supernatural giving you answers to what is around you and to the person standing in front of you, is it going to exist for you. No. That is not your gift. Is it therefore truthful of the possibility for you. No. But it might be for an actual prophet with the ability born into them. And no matter how much you scream or say no it does not exist. Well let me explain it in layman's terms. Imagine a bunch of blind people, that never knew any other people since they were born were to meet one person able to see. They will not find him fascinating...they will disbelief that he can see. No matter how hard he tries to explain to them how it is like. They will never understand or comprehend since they never had it, and might never have it. And never met anyone that had it. SO surely he is lying. That is how it is for most prophets. They have abilities that the other people around them believe does not exist. For the man that can see, it is not maybe. He can see. Clear as day. And he finds it almost frustrating that the others don't believe him. As he gets older. He just talks about it less, rather then to be ridiculed. But no matter how much they ridicule him. He can see still. That is how it is with a true prophet and apostle. You either are it or not. You were born as one. You don't need anyone to tell you that you are different. That you can clearly see. It would just be nice if the rest of the christians who claim to believe in God and the Bible (in which it clearly states apostles and prophets and their tasks functions and what they do - for those who are willing to read) would actually help the youngsters not to have such a hard time getting accepted into the Body of Believers.
4 and would you change your mind if the bible supported that there are no Apostles or Prophets?
To your fourth question. I must ask this in return, if the Bible never talked about apostles or prophets throughout the entire Bible, would the Bible be the Bible then still be?
Let's take a look... shall we
Take out all the books that are assosiated with a prophet in the old and new testament, and I think that maybe you are left with one or two books.
So, would I support it... my friend, you wouldn't even support it. Because there would be no more Bible.
You asked the question already believing in an answer which you pre-ordained in your head that you might be right. Rather you should've asked why is the entire Bible assosiated with prophets and apostles if they don't exist today...
And then redo you process of thinking. The answer is simple. They do.
But if you are ernest in your questioning, and don't have your own preset ideas at a ready as such a one that is trying to convince a Jury. But you are open like a child. Then maybe, you can ask God the truth.
Peace be with you.
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does Jesus ever make mistakes?
Mark 8:23-25
New King James Version (NKJV)
23 So He took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the town. And when He had spit on his eyes and put His hands on him, He asked him if he saw anything.
24 And he looked up and said, “I see men like trees, walking.”
25 Then He put His hands on his eyes again and made him look up. And he was restored and saw everyone clearly.
Mark 8:23-25
New King James Version (NKJV)
23 So He took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the town. And when He had spit on his eyes and put His hands on him, He asked him if he saw anything.
24 And he looked up and said, “I see men like trees, walking.”
25 Then He put His hands on his eyes again and made him look up. And he was restored and saw everyone clearly.
A
Mark 8:23-25
New King James Version (NKJV)
23 So He took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the town. And when He had spit on his eyes and put His hands on him, He asked him if he saw anything.
24 And he looked up and said, “I see men like trees, walking.”
25 Then He put His hands on his eyes again and made him look up. And he was restored and saw everyone clearly.
New King James Version (NKJV)
23 So He took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the town. And when He had spit on his eyes and put His hands on him, He asked him if he saw anything.
24 And he looked up and said, “I see men like trees, walking.”
25 Then He put His hands on his eyes again and made him look up. And he was restored and saw everyone clearly.
[SIZE=+1]Apostles and Prophets and the Foundation of the Church[/SIZE]
Presented by Bob DeWaay and Dick Kuffel
[SIZE=-2]Broadcast Monday, August 4, 2008[/SIZE]
We discuss three key passages in Ephesians about apostles and prophets to show that they are about authoritative, Biblical apostles and prophets and not latter day ones. We warn people not to listen to those who claim apostolic authority beyond Scripture.MP3 (duration 00:24:18)
http://cicministry.org/radio_series.php?series=apostles
[SIZE=+1]False Prophets[/SIZE]
Presented by Bob DeWaay and Dick Kuffel
[SIZE=-2]Broadcast Monday, June 11, 2007[/SIZE]
This program examines the claims of contemporary prophets who give predictive prophecies. We show the fallacies of those who wrongly predict the future but still claim to be true prophets, demonstrating that such claims are unbiblical.MP3 (duration 00:24:23)
http://cicministry.org/radio_series.php?series=apostles
Presented by Bob DeWaay and Dick Kuffel
[SIZE=-2]Broadcast Monday, August 4, 2008[/SIZE]
We discuss three key passages in Ephesians about apostles and prophets to show that they are about authoritative, Biblical apostles and prophets and not latter day ones. We warn people not to listen to those who claim apostolic authority beyond Scripture.MP3 (duration 00:24:18)
http://cicministry.org/radio_series.php?series=apostles
[SIZE=+1]False Prophets[/SIZE]
Presented by Bob DeWaay and Dick Kuffel
[SIZE=-2]Broadcast Monday, June 11, 2007[/SIZE]
This program examines the claims of contemporary prophets who give predictive prophecies. We show the fallacies of those who wrongly predict the future but still claim to be true prophets, demonstrating that such claims are unbiblical.MP3 (duration 00:24:23)
http://cicministry.org/radio_series.php?series=apostles
A
So far everything ive heard from the forums on the value, or purpose, or necessity, or duty of a possible
contemporary apostle or prophet, has been duties all believers have. Or an elder.
But yet they want to accept them, with all the lies and rank abominations they live seems to be ignored
as long as its held from the publics view. And through them very slowly they introduce little by little by little
new doctrines of demons. And a false christian/pagan world view,
contemporary apostle or prophet, has been duties all believers have. Or an elder.
But yet they want to accept them, with all the lies and rank abominations they live seems to be ignored
as long as its held from the publics view. And through them very slowly they introduce little by little by little
new doctrines of demons. And a false christian/pagan world view,
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Somehow I believe that this was your stance before you ever considered the issue.
If one already knows everything, or even believes that they have the answer, why ask God? What could He tell you different?
God sends prophets so that when they are standing before Him at the judgment, they will have no possibility of excuse. No one can have an excuse anyway, but when these see all of the messengers sent to them, they will know.
If one already knows everything, or even believes that they have the answer, why ask God? What could He tell you different?
God sends prophets so that when they are standing before Him at the judgment, they will have no possibility of excuse. No one can have an excuse anyway, but when these see all of the messengers sent to them, they will know.
A
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VW the church has been sent out to do the work, we do it together. My faith is in the Word of God. Thats
where it comes from by the way.
do you ever use the word? or just babble. show me for instance in the new testament where it says
a prophet is gona be the ringer for God to judge justly. You crack me up.
VW the church has been sent out to do the work, we do it together. My faith is in the Word of God. Thats
where it comes from by the way.
do you ever use the word? or just babble. show me for instance in the new testament where it says
a prophet is gona be the ringer for God to judge justly. You crack me up.
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there is a difference between having a conversation about what you personally believe and have learnt about the world and declaring you speak for GOD and anyone who disagrees is lost and undiscerning.
the first when meet with opposition to a statement will pray to God for truth. the second believes they are already in God's truth and will never have the blindness taken away for they say they can see perfectly fine and will not seek God's truth but stick to their own.
who is truly wise among us?
The Holy spirit will testify to the truth. I nominate Pickles
James 3
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
the first when meet with opposition to a statement will pray to God for truth. the second believes they are already in God's truth and will never have the blindness taken away for they say they can see perfectly fine and will not seek God's truth but stick to their own.
who is truly wise among us?
The Holy spirit will testify to the truth. I nominate Pickles
James 3
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
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