What if God had written IN STONE?

[Braweh]

no, Jesus says the basis is two obscure verses in Deuteronomy 6 and Leviticus 19, which 10-Commandments-only-ism calls 'a different law, a bad law'

But the Law of the Sinai covenant is one indivisible law, as we saw in James, who referred to Leviticus 19 'do not show favoritism' to prove that breaking any part of the Law makes a person guilty of all of it, and this is not the law the Christian is under, as we saw in Romans when Paul referred to Exodus 20 'do not covet' as an example when he tells us we have died to the law in order to belong to God, so that the law has no jurisdiction over us anymore, demonstrating that the 10 Commandments are definitely not the gospel nor the basis of Christianity nor are Christians under them or judged by them.

That would do away with all that Jesus did and taught.

 

[Braweh]

some say Israel is no longer God's chosen people, that all the promises made to them in prophecy are either void altogether or transferred to 'Christendom' - some say Great Britain is now Israel, as far as the promises of God in the scripture go, later some say America is.

IMO all that is wrong. Israel is Israel, Jerusalem is Jerusalem, in prophecy. she will be redeemed and God will not utterly forsake her.

Hmm. Ok.

But now you're saying something different for your definition of Israel. You said it was those spiritual descendants of Jacob and Isaac.

Now you're saying it's the physical location on the map.

The Bible never speaks of Israel in reference to the physical location we know of today.

 

[oyster67]

I will agree that the old Law still does function as a revealer of men's sinfulness.

Galatians 3:24,25
“Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.”
“But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”

 

[Braweh]

BTW.....

@Braweh

if i am arguing against some of your positions here it doesn't mean i don't love you. i hope that goes without saying

There is enough personal vitriol going on in this thread already... we're just talking together sorting out the truth giving our own views.

No insult or animosity ever intended by post, here

i am glad you are here and glad to discuss

Ditto.

I'm grateful we can discuss all this very important information and not get in trouble.

Sheesh. On many forums it's all taboo.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

The KJV uses the word Judgments where you have Ordinances, but I think we might be in agreement over all.

The King James is the Greek Version of the Hebrew, so a 2nd Translation. I use the Hebrew because I was raised by it. But yes, both words can be used as the same

 

[Braweh]

and you actually show the distinction that these 2 are separate.
Awesome Job

כח וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה: עַד-אָנָה, מֵאַנְתֶּם, לִשְׁמֹר מִצְוֺתַי, וְתוֹרֹתָי.16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'How long refuse ye to keep My commandments and My laws?

God, shows us there's a distinction between the Commandments and Laws.

if the Commandments were part of the Law, God, would have said, just keep My Laws.

I can't argue with you there.

I do believe the Bible makes reference to God's Law as the 10 Commandments though as well.

I'll have to search for some examples.

The 10 Commandments are translated to the "Ten Words" in Exodus 34:28 so we do have a little leeway on some of these things. The key is to check that a concept follows the theme of the entire book.

I'm convinced by Jesus' actions that the 10 are for us Christians. We are to be certain within ourselves of what we believe. I find the Bible to teach all throughout that the Commandments (10) are always and forever for Christians.

 

[oyster67]

Hmm. Ok.

But now you're saying something different for your definition of Israel. You said it was those spiritual descendants of Jacob and Isaac.

Now you're saying it's the physical location on the map.

The Bible never speaks of Israel in reference to the physical location we know of today.

The Book of Revelation makes plain that God still has plans for all the above.

 

[Braweh]

Ladies and gentlemen: grab your seat and hold on to your popcorn.

In the blue corner, we have a self-proclaimed Messianic Jew who says the Law is only the first four commandments.

In the red corner, we have a Judaizer claiming the commandments aren’t part of the Law at all.

Let’s sit back and let these two contentious contenders contend.

I think I missed something.

 

[Braweh]

The Book of Revelation makes plain that God still has plans for all the above.

Where?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I can't argue with you there.

I do believe the Bible makes reference to God's Law as the 10 Commandments though as well.

I'll have to search for some examples.

The 10 Commandments are translated to the "Ten Words" in Exodus 34:28 so we do have a little leeway on some of these things. The key is to check that a concept follows the theme of the entire book.

I'm convinced by Jesus' actions that the 10 are for us Christians. We are to be certain within ourselves of what we believe. I find the Bible to teach all throughout that the Commandments (10) are always and forever for Christians.

But look at the Commandments, thou shalt not do or shalt do.

Compare that to the Ordinances, if a Hebrew Slave serves 6 years they are released on year 7.

They're not even structured the same and one talks about our direct actions towards God and the other is about being slaves what to eat,how to do this.

They're not even speaking of the same things.

They are as opposite from one another as night and day.

And God only Commanded the Commandments to be inside the Ark of the Covenant but never the written law.

So, even God separated them Spiritually.

So, they are not the same by any means at all.

 

[Braweh]

Amen!

No, Jesus said, until the Jews cry out for Him...

That day hasn't happened.

But, it's still interesting knowing God helped them reestablish themselves as a Nation and brought them Victory in every War since then.

So, Covenant or Not, God, is still protecting them even against some Christians.

At least the Christians who attack the Jews.

For the record, I'm not attacking anybody, but I have seen much that leads me to believe they are not the people of God based on the Bible.

The people of God are as the sands of the sea.

Those people you spoke of are .2% of the world population.

That doesn't work at all.

 

[Cameron143]

That doesn't make sense though.

Christian means follower of Christ.

What did Christ do?

He taught the 10 Commandments.

He obeyed the 10 Commandments.

He gave His life for all those who would follow His (God's) ways.

Many here have tried to dismiss Luke 23:54-56, but there's just no dismissing it.

If we could ask Jesus' closest followers what He taught about the 10 Commandments being changed, or going away, after His death, they would tell us by their actions in that passage.

The answer is crystal clear. They continued to obey them.

Jesus was made under the law. He came to fulfill the law. So of course He taught the law. It was the covenant that Israel was under at the time. To do otherwise would have been sinful.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I think I missed something.

Look at all the attempts that Poster had quoted me and attacked me.

He's mad because I won't put up with his lying and bull crap.

He is used to pushing people around.

But I am paid to deal with people like him so this is fun for me.

 

[Braweh]

I will agree that the old Law still does function as a revealer of men's sinfulness.

Right and if it does, that means there are still Commandments being broken.

If the Bible defines sin as the breaking of the Commandments ...
1 John 3:4

 

[Braweh]

The King James is the Greek Version of the Hebrew, so a 2nd Translation. I use the Hebrew because I was raised by it. But yes, both words can be used as the same

Actually, that brings up something very interesting that I discovered that I think you won't like.

In Psalm 119, the word ordinances is used many times when the oldest Bible versions, like the Wycliffe, actually use Commandments there.

That changes a lot.

Not only does it make Psalm 119 rave about the 10 Commandments much more than previously believed, but it also says that where you see ordinances could very well be translated as Commandments.

I'll see if I can find the Wycliffe for that verse you mentioned in Exodus.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Actually, that brings up something very interesting that I discovered that I think you won't like.

In Psalm 119, the word ordinances is used many times when the oldest Bible versions, like the Wycliffe, actually use Commandments there.

That changes a lot.

Not only does it make Psalm 119 rave about the 10 Commandments much more than previously believed, but it also says that where you see ordinances could very well be translated as Commandments.

I'll see if I can find the Wycliffe for that verse you mentioned in Exodus.

If you can, you will accomplish something that the ancient Hebrew people from then until now never saw.
And they were all about the Law and the Commandments because the Law was their Covenant and the Commandments were their statutes.


I will ask this, if the Law and Commandments are the same why did God only put the Commandments in the Ark of the Covenant, which is a Type of Old Testament Jesus, but God ordered the Law to not be added?

 

[Braweh]

If you can, you will accomplish something that the ancient Hebrew people from then until now never saw.
And they were all about the Law and the Commandments because the Law was their Covenant and the Commandments were their statutes.

Hmm.

So are you saying that only goes for the OT Hebrew then?

Surely you're not saying the NT Greek, where Jesus so often referred to the Commandments, was referring to the ordinances, right?

That wouldn't make sense at all.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I will ask this, if the Law and Commandments are the same why did God only put the Commandments in the Ark of the Covenant, which is a Type of Old Testament Jesus, but God ordered the Law to not be added?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Hmm.

So are you saying that only goes for the OT Hebrew then?

Surely you're not saying the NT Greek, where Jesus so often referred to the Commandments, was referring to the ordinances, right?

That wouldn't make sense at all.

No. Just saying by age 13 I had memorize the entire Old Testament like all male Jews and we know it's not listed as you might think concerning the Law and Commandments being the Same.

 

[Braweh]

See, here I have to disagree.

The stone tablets were placed into the Ark.

That was most certainly the 10 Commandments.