The Commandments of God (according to scripture)

[posthuman]

In Habakkuk 2, it contrasts the righteous who are living by faith with those who are not living in obedience to the Mosaic Law,

utter nonsense.

Habakkuk 2:4 contrasts the proud with the one who has faith.

 

[posthuman]

obeying His instructions in all of our ways and He will make our way straight, and this is what it means to be declared righteous by faith.

preposterous nonsense.

See Galatians 3:12, posted above.

The Law is not of faith precisely because the law says "do"

faith says "believe"

 

[posthuman]

belief is a mental property;
keeping the law is a physical property.


do not think that i don't remember sabbath or that i go about seeking to do what is evil.


i just don't boast in it nor will i for a single moment seek to harm the faith of anyone who doesn't;
i boast only in the Lamb Who bought me with His own blood, while i was utterly unworthy.

i remain utterly unworthy no matter what effort i make, but i remain saved. how great is the God of my Salvation!!



whoever believes is saved. whoever does not is condemned already.

 

[Cameron143]

How does it make sense to you to think that God nature is eternal while the way to act in accordance or contrary to His nature is not?


In Romans 7, Paul said that the Law of God, that he wanted to do good, and that he delighted in obeying it, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which was holding him captive and causing him not to do the good of obeying the Law of God that he wanted to do. In Romans 7:7, the Law of God is not sinful, but is how we know what sin is, and when our sin is revealed, then that leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease, however, in Romans 7:5, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, so it is sinful and causes sin to increase. So verses that refer to a law that is sinful, that causes sin to increase, or that hinders us from obeying the Law of God should be interpreted as referring to the law of sin, such as Romans 5:20, Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Galatians 5:16-18, and 1 Corinthians 15:56. In Romans 7:22, Paul delighted in obeying the Law of God, so another good indicators that a verse is not referring to the Law of God is if it would be absurd if Paul delighted in doing it, such as if he delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, so Romans 7:5 can't be referring to the Law of God, but rather it is the law of sin that does that.


In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law is how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is the way to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, which is also the way to walk in the Spirit. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have m ends set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law. In Galatians 5:16-18, Paul spoke about the desires of the flesh causing us not to do the good that we want to do, which is how he described his struggle with the law of sin, so we are not under the law of sin when we are led by the Spirit. Furthermore, in Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. The way to help others live free of sin is by leading people to repent from their disobedience to the Mosaic Law in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

You don't need the law when you walk in the Spirit. You are being moved by the lawgiver. Otherwise, you are being moved by you.
In the Spirit you have the mind of Christ. Otherwise, you have your carnal mind.

Why do you insist on leading people into sin? Why not let God work in people rather than teach them to live in the power of self?

 

[Soyeong]

No it is not. We have been declared righteous by faith. Romans 5:1

You really ought to stop making stuff up and pretending it is what the Bible teaches.

I did not disagree that we have been declared righteous by faith, but rather I spoke in regard to what that means based on Proverbs 3:5-7. When we do good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law, we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works give glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness were are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in him, which is why the Bible repeatedly connects our faith/belief in God with our obedience to Him.

For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In James 2:18, he would show his faith by his works. In John 3:36, it equates believing in Jesus with obeying him. In Psalms 119:30, he chose the way of faith by setting God's law before him. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. Hebrews 11, every example of faith is an example of works. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience to God's law is referred to as breaking faith. In Hebrews 3:18-19, unbelief is equated with disobedience. And so forth.

 

[Soyeong]

what i said is what scripture says.

Galatians 3:10-12​

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written,​

"Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." ​

But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for ​

"the just shall live by faith." ​

Yet the law is not of faith, but ​

"the man who does them shall live by them."​

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to God. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and the law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12.

According to Deuteronomy 27-28, relying on God's law is the way to be blessed while not relying on it is the way to be cursed, so Galatians 3:10 should not be interpreted as Paul quoting from that passage in order to support a point that is arguing against that passage by saying relying on God's law is the way to be curse and not relying on it is the way to be blessed. Rather, those who rely on works of the law come under the curse for not relying on the Book of the Law because they are doing that instead of relying on the Book of the Law.

In Galatians 3:10-12, Paul associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 saying that the righteous shall live by faith with a quote from Leviticus 18:5 that the one who obeys the Mosaic Law will live by it, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Mosaic Law. Again, in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous who are those on whose heart is the Mosaic Law, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it. And again, the context of Habakkuk 2 contrasts the righteous who are living by faith with those who are not living in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in His law, to deny that God's law is of faith is to deny the faithfulness of God, and it is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God, but not in what He has instructed.

 

[posthuman]

to deny that God's law is of faith is to deny the faithfulness of God

tell it to the Spirit Who is the Author scripture...

Galatians 3:12​

the law is not of faith, but ​

"the man who does them shall live by them."​

 

[posthuman]

the faithfulness of God

2 Timothy 2:11,13​

this is a faithful saying: ​

if we are faithless, He remains faithful​

 

[posthuman]

it is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God, but not in what He has instructed.

who has said 'let us sin all the more, that grace may abound'??

no one.

but because we affirm that salvation is by faith, not of works, we are constantly accused.

 

[posthuman]

personally suspect this is all a proxy conversation anyway.

it is an effort to tell people they go to hell for worshipping God on any day but saturday.

 

[Soyeong]

belief is a mental property;
keeping the law is a physical property.

If I were going camping with a friend who promised that they were going to bring all of the food and water for the week, then if I said that I believed them, but I brought extra food and water just in case they didn't do what they promised, then my actions would reveal I didn't really believe them, but if I acted as though what they said they would do is as good as done, then that would be the way to believe them. This is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so belief is expressed through our actions, which is also why every example of faith listed in Hebrews 11 is an action, not merely a mental affirmation.

do not think that i don't remember sabbath or that i go about seeking to do what is evil.

The way that we choose live testifies about what we believe to be true about God. For example, by doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to the Father (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him.

Likewise, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3) and refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45), So by following God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy we are testifying about and believing in God's holiness. If someone refuses to follow those instructions, then they are bearing false witness against God by testifying that He is not holy. In other words, if God were not holy, then it would not change the way that they live, so they choose to live in a way that treats God if He were not holy. .

i just don't boast in it nor will i for a single moment seek to harm the faith of anyone who doesn't;
i boast only in the Lamb Who bought me with His own blood, while i was utterly unworthy.

i remain utterly unworthy no matter what effort i make, but i remain saved. how great is the God of my Salvation!!



whoever believes is saved. whoever does not is condemned already.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of obeying it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically the content of the gift of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. For example, keeping the Sabbath holy is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not keeping the Sabbath holy, so someone who refuses to obey God's command to keep the Sabbath holy should not think that they are being saved from not keeping it holy.

 

[Soyeong]

utter nonsense.

Habakkuk 2:4 contrasts the proud with the one who has faith.

The context of Habakkuk 2 speaks against pride, who heaps up what is not his own, who gets evil gain for his house, who builds a town with blood and who founds a city on iniquity, who makes his neighbor drunk in order to gaze at their nakedness, and who practice idolatry.

preposterous nonsense.

See Galatians 3:12, posted above.

The Law is not of faith precisely because the law says "do"

faith says "believe"

You should not interpret Galatians 3::12 as contradicting Proverbs 3:5-7. The Bible repeatedly connects our belief or faith in God with our obedience to Him and connects our unbelief with our disobedience to Him.

tell it to the Spirit Who is the Author scripture...

Galatians 3:12​

the law is not of faith, but ​

"the man who does them shall live by them."​

You are the one who is interpreting "works of the law" as referring to what God has commanded and by doing that you are denying that what God has commanded is of faith, which is denying the faithfulness of God. It is contradictory to think that God is trustworthy, but that what He has instructed is not. It is my position that "works of the law" does not refer to what God has commanded.

2 Timothy 2:11,13​

this is a faithful saying: ​

if we are faithless, He remains faithful​

If you believe in the faithfulness of God, then you should not interpret the Bible as speaking against His faithfulness.

who has said 'let us sin all the more, that grace may abound'??

no one.

but because we affirm that salvation is by faith, not of works, we are constantly accused.

In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while it denies that we can earn our salvation as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, doing good works is nevertheless intrinsically part of the gift of our salvation.

personally suspect this is all a proxy conversation anyway.

it is an effort to tell people they go to hell for worshipping God on any day but saturday.

I have not said that.

 

[Soyeong]

You don't need the law when you walk in the Spirit. You are being moved by the lawgiver. Otherwise, you are being moved by you.

Nowhere is that stated in the Bible. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, and in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are all against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Mosaic Law.

In the Spirit you have the mind of Christ. Otherwise, you have your carnal mind.

Christ has the mind of Christ, so he walked in the Spirit in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

Why do you insist on leading people into sin? Why not let God work in people rather than teach them to live in the power of self?

It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin is, so I am leading people away from sin by leading people to repent from their disobedience to it in accordance with the promise and with the Gospel while it is those who are speaking against obeying it who are leading people to sin. It is contradictory to think that I am leading people to live by the power of self by leading people to rely on what God has commanded.

 

[Cameron143]

Nowhere is that stated in the Bible. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, and in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are all against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Mosaic Law.


Christ has the mind of Christ, so he walked in the Spirit in obedience to the Mosaic Law.


It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin is, so I am leading people away from sin by leading people to repent from their disobedience to it in accordance with the promise and with the Gospel while it is those who are speaking against obeying it who are leading people to sin. It is contradictory to think that I am leading people to live by the power of self by leading people to rely on what God has commanded.

The Mosaic law was given to the Jewish people. It falls under the old covenant. Are you under the old covenant?
The Spirit is given to all who believe. Every believer is the temple of the Holy Spirit. It is by means of the Spirit that we are regenerated. And the only requirement is faith. So the Bible does teach this. No one is born again apart from the Spirit.
Let me ask you a question: how many people in the cemetery are subject to the law? None. Why? Because the law doesn't apply to dead people. We are dead to the law by the body of Christ...Romans 7:4. You keep pointing out that the law brings the knowledge of sin. We don't need the law to do that. The Spirit within us convicts us of sin. And as we walk in Him, we live righteously. He can only lead us in righteousness. The law required every one to teach his brother. Now, the Spirit leads us into all truth.
Can't you see how superior the new covenant is to the old? God exchanged an inferior covenant that always failed due to the weakness of the flesh for one that cannot fail because of the power of the Spirit. Wouldn't you like to exchange Moses for Jesus? Hebrews is a good read.

 

[posthuman]

Nowhere is that stated in the Bible

Romans 8:1-4​

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.​

​

​

the Law is not for the righteous, but the unrighteous. 1 Timothy 1:9

 

[posthuman]

You should not interpret Galatians 3::12 as contradicting Proverbs 3:5-7.

i don't.

Proverbs 3 doesn't mention the Law; you're the one trying to make it place dead people in Christ under Moses.

Galatians is straightforward. the Law is not of faith. the Law concerns works, and it was given to a faithless people who vainly blasphemed God - and it was given because they were vain and faithless and blasphemed God.

we who believe don't reject the things in the Law. we just know we are not under it. we know Someone greater than the Law.

taxes are not gathered from sons & daughters, but from strangers.

 

[posthuman]

I have not said that.

not yet, lol...
because the basis you are trying to build for it crumbles while you try to build it.

 

[posthuman]

taxes are not gathered from sons & daughters, but from strangers.

Matthew 17:25-27

what do we imagine this means?

we who believe have been made sons and daughters, and we do the things in the Law, not because we are under it, but because we love our Father - Who loves us whether we do or not.

we were not saved while we had no need of Salvation. our Father reached out and took us while we hated Him, and He gathered us and taught us.

carts need horses, else they go nowhere but the rut they started in. i do not put my trust in horses.

 

[posthuman]

I have not said that.

why did you join the forum 2 months ago and go directly to an SDA thread, skipping all introduction, immediately acting like everyones teacher?
what burden do you bear for us?

sure looks like you came here with an agenda.

please pardon my transparent & frank analysis of facts.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

For example:


Exodus 12:25 And when you come to the land that the Lord will give you, as he has promised, you shall keep this service.

Exodus 13:11-12 “When the Lord brings you into the land of the Canaanites, as he swore to you and your fathers, and shall give it to you,12 you shall set apart to the Lord all that first opens the womb. All the firstborn of your animals that are males shall be the Lord's.

Leviticus 14:34 “When you come into the land of Canaan, which I give you for a possession, and I put a case of leprous disease in a house in the land of your possession,

Leviticus 19:9 “When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest.

Leviticus 19:23 “When you come into the land and plant any kind of tree for food, then you shall regard its fruit as forbidden. Three years it shall be forbidden to you; it must not be eaten.

Leviticus 23:10 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When you come into the land that I give you and reap its harvest, youshall bring the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest,

Leviticus 25:2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When youcome into the land that I give you, the land shall keep a Sabbath to the Lord.

I do not agree with this condition of yours, it may apply to a handful of these laws but certainly not all, however i want to point out that the way you wrote this in a previous post, it lead me to believe they were all under this condition of reaching the given land. Almost all you write about is a deviation from scripture which led me to believe you studied the Talmud. Now I understand you a bit better but I do not agree. Also please read in the book of Acts 15; the question of should gentiles follow the law is a very old question that was already answered by the heads of the church then please read carefully.

The Jerusalem Council
Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

This is as clear as it can get, I hope you will understand.

Blessings.