Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone

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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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And....

The Lord would come and dwell in the tabernacle at times. Why would he do that if they had the Holy Spirit? Same with the disciples before Pentecost? Did they not understand anything spiritual before that?
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Can you give me a scripture that says the natural man, before he has been born spiritually, can understand the spiritual milk of the word?
Spiritual milk or elementary principles would be: repentance from dead works and faith toward God, baptisms and the laying on of hands, resurrection from the dead and age-long judgment. We can see unsaved persons being exposed to the bare bones of these six things by the apostles' preaching before their audiences believed in Christ for salvation. Once someone saw healing of him/herself or others by the laying on of a disciples' hands, and had repented and believed God's testimony about Christ, having heard the call to repent and be baptised into Christ and receive the promised Holy Spirit, and having understood the promises of resurrection and God's judgment, they would in obedience immediately get baptised.

In the Acts understanding of all these six issues was offered to unbelievers before they believed then and were saved. A deeper understanding of the implications to those now within the kingdom of these six elementary level aspects was then fleshed out to the new believer as spiritual milk.

Many people including Judas understood the call to be baptised into Jesus' community and were baptised by Jesus' disciples (John 3:22-26) but the later turned away from Jesus when He spoke about them eating HIs flesh and drinking His blood in John 6:53-66. Were thet regenerated to repent and believe and submit to Jesus' baptism? Did people need to be regenerated to receive healing from the laying on of Jesus' hands? Did people need to be regenerated to believe in the resurrection of the dead?
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Can you give me a scripture that says the natural man, before he has been born spiritually, can understand the spiritual milk of the word?
ForestGreenCook ... please read what I wrote. I never stated "the natural man, before he has been born spiritually, can understand the spiritual milk of the word".

What I wrote:

you consider what is written in Romans 1:20-21 concerning the natural, physical realm revealing God's eternal power and Godhead which can be understood and known to natural man

to be

the milk of the word which is spiritual in nature and which the newly born again one can understand.

and/or

the more in-depth spiritual matters Paul discussed with the mature believers in Corinth (1 Cor 2:6-14), which cannot be comprehended by those who are not born again or by those who are babes in Christ(whether newly born again or born again for a while but never matured beyond the basics of Jesus Christ and Him crucified – 1 Cor 2:2).


The point is that what is written in Romans 1:20-21 relates to the natural, physical realm which natural man can understand and can know.

God's Word is comprised of some truths which do not require a person to be born again in order to understand.

A person does not need to be born again in order to understand "thou shalt not steal" ... you are in error when you insist there is absolutely nothing in God's Word that natural man can understand.
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Mar 23, 2016
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So, those that are not divinely punished by God, are they not loved by God? For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, (divinely punished) and scourgest every son whom he receiverh.
You think unbelievers are not chastened by God? God chastens every single person who has ever been born ... He chastens now ... He will continue to chasten in the future.

Unbelievers probably think the worst thing for them is to listen to believers speaking the truth of God's Word ... but in reality the worst thing for them is when believers do not speak God's Word ...


The worst chastening is to be separated from God.
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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And....

The Lord would come and dwell in the tabernacle at times. Why would he do that if they had the Holy Spirit? Same with the disciples before Pentecost? Did they not understand anything spiritual before that?
The old testament saints were born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as new born babes, in the same manner as the new testament saints are. New born babes grow spiritually as they hear and understand spiritual things.

The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, has not been born again of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and, therefore, cannot understand anything of a spiritual nature, not even shallow things, and thinks them to be foolishness.

The Godhead is made up of three identities, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which have different functions, likewise, the Holy Spirit also has three different functions; Quickening Spirit, Revelator, and comforter.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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You think unbelievers are not chastened by God? God chastens every single person who has ever been born ... He chastens now ... He will continue to chasten in the future.

Unbelievers probably think the worst thing for them is to listen to believers speaking the truth of God's Word ... but in reality the worst thing for them is when believers do not speak God's Word ...


The worst chastening is to be separated from God.
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So, do you think that Psalms 73 should not be a part of the bible? What do you do with the scripture that says God chastens every son whom he receives. Does he receive those that do not believe in him?
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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ForestGreenCook ... please read what I wrote. I never stated "the natural man, before he has been born spiritually, can understand the spiritual milk of the word".

What I wrote:

you consider what is written in Romans 1:20-21 concerning the natural, physical realm revealing God's eternal power and Godhead which can be understood and known to natural man

to be

the milk of the word which is spiritual in nature and which the newly born again one can understand.

and/or

the more in-depth spiritual matters Paul discussed with the mature believers in Corinth (1 Cor 2:6-14), which cannot be comprehended by those who are not born again or by those who are babes in Christ(whether newly born again or born again for a while but never matured beyond the basics of Jesus Christ and Him crucified – 1 Cor 2:2).


The point is that what is written in Romans 1:20-21 relates to the natural, physical realm which natural man can understand and can know.

God's Word is comprised of some truths which do not require a person to be born again in order to understand.

A person does not need to be born again in order to understand "thou shalt not steal" ... you are in error when you insist there is absolutely nothing in God's Word that natural man can understand.
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The natural man does not go to the bible to understand "thou shalt not steal". He understands it when he gets arrested for doing it. The natural man understands the law of man. He does not understand the law of a spiritual God.

Your theology gives credit to man, not to God.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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in HIS name, etc they obviously had some kind belief.

Matthew 7:21-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’\

They might have know ABOUT Him and even "accepted Him, but they had not been elected to salvation. It is not important that people say they know Jesus (or think they do) what is important is that Jesus knows them. Knew His elect before the foundation of the world. The bible never says we accept Christ but it does say that Christ accepts us. (in context speaking TO His elect)
"The kingdom of heaven" is one of several names of the church that Jesus set up. The scriptures that govern the discipline of the church will eliminate some disobedient elect from entering the church, however all of God's elect will enter heaven itself.

If doing the will of the Father allows you to enter eternal heaven, then that would be eternal salvation is gained by our works.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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1 Timothy 2:3-4


3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Paul left Timothy in Ephesus to charge some that they teach no other doctrine (1 Tim 1:3). The "all men" in 1 Tim 2:1 is in reference to pray for all that have authority over them that they might lead a good and peaceful life.

The "all men" in verse 4 has reference to all of the men who were teaching another doctrine. Saved=delivered, according to Strong's concordance, from their ignorance of the truth.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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God commands all men every where to repent. Acts 17 is about every person... not just some.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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nope ... I'm saying that there are a lot of believers who have not matured beyond spiritual infancy. These believers could be newly born again, in which case they are in spiritual infancy ... or they could be believers who have been born again for years but never progressed past spiritual infancy because they neglect the Word of God ... the milk of the Word by which they are to grow up and mature.

Either way (whether newly born again or old believer who neglected God's Word), there is no comprehension of the the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, referred to in 1 Cor 2:6-13, even though the capacity (i.e. Holy Spirit) is present. For the newly born again one, it is understandable why they are unable to comprehend. For those who have been born again for awhile, yet have not matured ... it's just sad.





Romans 1:19 states that the truth was revealed to them and they rejected it.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.





The natural man sure can believe in (as well as practice) spiritual things.

devil worship ... astrology ... witchcraft ... the occult ... these are all spiritual things and natural man not only believes, but actively engages in various "spiritual" activities.
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1 Cor 2:14 has reference to the Holy Spirit, designated by a large "S".
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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God commands all men every where to repent. Acts 17 is about every person... not just some.
If we are to understand the doctrine of Christ, all scriptures must harmonize. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, cannot repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws that he cannot understand, and thinks they are foolishness.

Only those that have been born again of the Holy Spirit will repent of breaking a spiritual law, and they are scattered everywhere.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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If we are to understand the doctrine of Christ, all scriptures must harmonize. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, cannot repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws that he cannot understand, and thinks they are foolishness.

Only those that have been born again of the Holy Spirit will repent of breaking a spiritual law, and they are scattered everywhere.
It is about everyone, not just some. He desires being sought, and to those who seek it is promised : He will be revealed. Acts 17...
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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It is about everyone, not just some. He desires being sought, and to those who seek it is promised : He will be revealed. Acts 17...

I am curious, who do you think is God's offspring in Acts 17:28-29?
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Universalists believe all people will be saved. They often complain against the contrary teaching that people go to hell by posing questions such as:
  • "Do you really believe that God is going to lose most of mankind in hell and that only a few are going to be saved?"
  • "If most go to hell, doesn't that mean that Satan wins since God only gets a few compared to the majority who are lost?"
Of course, these kinds of questions are the wrong ones to ask. What they are doing is using emotionalism to sway someone's beliefs. What they should be asking are questions like these:
  • "What does the Bible teach about damnation?"
  • "Does the Bible tell us if most will be lost or saved?"
  • "Does it tell us that all will be saved?

  • "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. 14"For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it," (Matt. 7:13-14).
  • "For many are called, but few are chosen," (Matt. 22:14).

  • "And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?"

  • And He said to them, 24"Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25"Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26"Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; depart from Me, all you evildoers,'" (Luke 13:22-27).

  • "And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved; 28for the Lord will execute His word upon the earth, thoroughly and quickly," (Rom. 9:27)
So how can anyone say God has offered salvation to everyone, the above scriptures make it clear that God has chosen to save some and not all mankind as many believe. What about the Reprobate.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Corinthians 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

2 Corinthians 13:7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Do the reprobate choose to be reprobate or has God given them over to their sin nature to continuously sin and deprive themselves of receiving the salvation which Jesus purchased on the cross. It sounds like God didn't give them the gift of faith, so they can't respond by believing the Gospel.
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭

Gods Will is that man repent , believe the gospel and live in paradise with him forever but …it is an invite he is telling us the truth and inviting us to attend through hearing and believing the gospel of his kingdom

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: and the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-10‬ ‭

I’m not sure that parable makes sense but the idea is God has made salvation available to all but many won’t attend they choose other things heres Luke’s version

“Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: and sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.


So that servant came, and shewed his Lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. And the Lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.


For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭14:16-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Just because we are invited doesn’t mean we’re going to choose to attend israel is an example of that we have to accept his offer sometimes people won’t do that part sometimes Christian life would require us to change and we’d rather live like we want to frankly
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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It still amazes me that you consider what is written in Romans 1:20-21 concerning the natural, physical realm revealing God's eternal power and Godhead which can be understood and known to natural man

to be

the milk of the word which is spiritual in nature and which the newly born again one can understand.

and/or

the more in-depth spiritual matters Paul discussed with the mature believers in Corinth (1 Cor 2:6-14), which cannot be comprehended by those who are not born again or by those who are babes in Christ (whether newly born again or born again for a while but never matured beyond the basics of Jesus Christ and Him crucified – 1 Cor 2:2).





You misconstrue what I have stated over and over in my discussions with you, ForestGreenCook.
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Paul calls a tenaciously held false idea "a stronghold" for a reason.

2 Cor. 10:4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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It is about everyone, not just some. He desires being sought, and to those who seek it is promised : He will be revealed. Acts 17...

God saw (all the inhabitants of the earth) that none would seek him, no, not one. (Psalms 14::1-3) That is why he choose some (Eph 1:4) that he gave to Jesus to redeem them from their sins by his death on the cross.(John 6:37-40).