I'm mad

[BrittanyJones]

Oh man I've been told that too! Once by my cousin.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever BELIEVES in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.
John 3

 

[Brandon777]

@Brandon77

I agree that Jesus loved the people but didn't approve of their sin. As for God hating workers of iniquity, I think He is refering to people who sin knowing they sin. Those who have thrown their concious out the window, who unashamedly lie, steal, and all sorts of other sins.

I think it's a different matter for homosexuals who don't feel like it's sin in their concious. Paul says the concious bears witness to sin. (Romans 1) and he was refering to sins such as homosexuailty, which man exchanged the natural use of a woman, ie a hetersexual man choosing sexual relations with a man.

I don't know that I agree that God detests a sinner and wants them to be saved at the same time. That's hard to get my mind around. Either God loves you or He doesn't. That said, I do not deny the Scripture you're refering to. I think when God hates a sinner, He hates that sinner after He has exhausted all efforts to save them and failed. Like in Proverbs 2, when Wisdom says she will not answer the sinner in his anguish, because the sinner ignored her when she called to him.

I see what your saying. And I adopt it as my own belief. It makes the most sense.

 

[jamie26301]

I see what your saying. And I adopt it as my own belief. It makes the most sense.

It wouldn't offend me if you didn't change your mind. I respect anyone's convictions. But I'm honored that I could offer something you haven't thought of before.

 

[jamie26301]

@Brandon77

I agree that Jesus loved the people but didn't approve of their sin. As for God hating workers of iniquity, I think He is refering to people who sin knowing they sin. Those who have thrown their concious out the window, who unashamedly lie, steal, and all sorts of other sins.

I think it's a different matter for homosexuals who don't feel like it's sin in their concious. Paul says the concious bears witness to sin. (Romans 1) and he was refering to sins such as homosexuailty, which man exchanged the natural use of a woman, ie a hetersexual man choosing sexual relations with a man.

I don't know that I agree that God detests a sinner and wants them to be saved at the same time. That's hard to get my mind around. Either God loves you or He doesn't. That said, I do not deny the Scripture you're refering to. I think when God hates a sinner, He hates that sinner after He has exhausted all efforts to save them and failed. Like in Proverbs 2, when Wisdom says she will not answer the sinner in his anguish, because the sinner ignored her when she called to him.

I have looked at the Scriptures and realize I misquoted it. The concious bears witness to the LAW and it is found in Romans 2. It refers to righteous Gentiles. The homosexual part is in Romans 1. But my point still stands: Gentiles are unbelievers, which most homosexuals are because believers push them away from the faiith. And the law draws to the concious the sin being committed.

Like I said, it doesn't negate the point, but I would hate to misquuote God's word. May that never be!

 

[Anna80]

But also I said it to point out that the passage in question is not to be taken as literally as some take it in terms of homosexuality. If you applied it to adulterers, David would go to hell. So "homosexuals will not..." shouldn't be applied to all homosexuals.

David repented deeply for his act, that's why this verse does not apply to him. The same with homosexuality or any sin. Once you acknowledge, sincerely repent and leave it God will hold you innocent.

 

[Anna80]

Some Christians who don't think homosexuality is sin, have their reasons.

The reason is they don't really know the Bible. Or God for that matter.

 

[Anna80]

Yes, I know some gays are really nice and they are sterotyped all wrong.

If you look carefully around you, I'm sure you'll see some adulterers who are really nice people too.

And yes, Christians for the most part hate homosexuals. They do not hate the sin (if it is sin) itself, but the actuall people commiting the sin. It's a shame, because you're not going to witness to someone you hate, because if you hate them, why would you want them to be saved?

To hate someone who commits any sin is wrong, because God sent His Son to die for sinners, so that means HE MUST LOVE THEM. Anyway, I'm beginning to hate more what's happening these days with Christians who seem to not know anymore to call sin for what it is.

 

[jamie26301]

I don't know that I agree that God detests a sinner and wants them to be saved at the same time. That's hard to get my mind around. Either God loves you or He doesn't. That said, I do not deny the Scripture you're refering to. I think when God hates a sinner, He hates that sinner after He has exhausted all efforts to save them and failed. Like in Proverbs 2, when Wisdom says she will not answer the sinner in his anguish, because the sinner ignored her when she called to him.

Correction #2. Wisdom not answering the sinner is Proverbs 1. That's three places in Scripture I misquoted. Well, at least I was in the ballpark!

 

[jamie26301]

@ Ann80

I don't blame you for your convictions. I made my arguments; there's really nothing more I can say. Have a blessed day!

 

[jeffgforJC]

The main thing to remember is that sometimes you cant listen to other peoples points of view. You said that you are leaning more towards the side of the bible being infallible. That is good. Until you have come to a place where you can openly believe this you should not open yourself up to what these young earth creationists, or any of these groups or people have to say. Don't consider both sides of the homosexuality argument, just consider GOD's side. Because by doing so you open yourself up to attack on your faith from Satan.

.....I will be praying for you.

 

[david1994]

The world is for homosexuality. The Bible mentions homosexuality and then goes on to mention a recompense for an error. Romans 1 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

The Bible seems to be against homosexuality. Why do you argue against it? Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. You do not want to tell a young Christian that it is okay for men to work that which is unseemly with men and cause that young Christian to stumble. So like I was saying. The Bible seems to be against homosexuality. The world is for homosexuality, and pre-marital sex, drugs, alcohol, abortion, etc. I think if the world is for something that the Bible seems to be against, we should automatically take the opinion of what the Bible appears to be saying instead of listening to what the world or some liberal Christian says that the Bible says. It's kind of like Jesus in the wilderness being tempted by Satan. Satan told Jesus to turn the bread into stone. What is wrong with that? There is nothing wrong with it, but Jesus didn't do it, because Satan told him to do it. If the world tells us to do something that we know is wrong but that seems okay, we shouldn't do it. I am pretty sure Christians weren't the first ones to say homosexuality wasn't bad. The world was the first. Listen to the Bible. Stick to the fundamental beliefs that Christians have been believing for hundreds of years. If you're going against them, you should have some very solid evidence. There seems to be very solid evidence in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong. The Bible calls it a vile affection. That's why people leave a church that openly allows homosexuality. I guarantee you. Most churches that allow homosexuality also allow some other debatable things such as drinking, smoking, divorce, acceptance of other religions, etc. If not, let me know.

 

[jamie26301]

The main thing to remember is that sometimes you cant listen to other peoples points of view. You said that you are leaning more towards the side of the bible being infallible. That is good. Until you have come to a place where you can openly believe this you should not open yourself up to what these young earth creationists,

I actually think the young earth creationists are closer to the bible than other views. But please, I don't want to debate about that.

or any of these groups or people have to say. Don't consider both sides of the homosexuality argument, just consider GOD's side.

You have to consider both sides to see what side God is on.

Because by doing so you open yourself up to attack on your faith from Satan.

I think the point of faith is to be firmly established in the things of salvation. Homosexuailty - the views you may have on it - is not a salvatic issue. You're not going to hell because you may think that homosexuaility is not sin. As least, that's my opinion. Salvation is found in Peter's sermon in Acts 2. "Repent and be baptized every one of you for the remission of your sins..." That's what you need to be saved.

.....I will be praying for you.

Any prayers will be appreciated.

 

[Brandon777]

The Bible is the foundation of Christiandom. Without it we are nothing. It is the Word of Truth and God is the Spirit of Truth. It will be the only thing remaining from the old earth other than God and His saints. HOLY BIBLE BAM!!!

 

[jamie26301]

The Bible is the foundation of Christiandom. Without it we are nothing. It is the Word of Truth and God is the Spirit of Truth. It will be the only thing remaining from the old earth other than God and His saints. HOLY BIBLE BAM!!!

Not to be contentious with you, but I disagree. Jesus is the foundation of Christiandom. Without Jesus, we would have no breath, for He created all things and substains all things.

Yes, the Bible is important and will never pass away. But it's important to worship God Himself, and not to worship His word. There's a difference you see.

Have a blessed day! Great to see you back on Christian Chat.

 

[Tobby17]

I don't know who are worse, the people who discriminate or condemn homosexuals or the people who generally use them as a topic for discussion..

 

[jamie26301]

I don't know who are worse, the people who discriminate or condemn homosexuals or the people who generally use them as a topic for discussion..

Cute. Real cute. :/

But you see, I didn't make this thread to talk about homosexuals but about the disunity in the church because of these types of issues, and that I don't like being judged based on the church I go to.

 

[juliet84]

If you go to some who is a murderer or addict and tell them your opinions on theology, they wont care. But going to them and showing them Gods love and care will change them forever.

Very true. One of the biggest reasons why I surrender my life to Jesus is when a friend came to me and said "Jesus loves you no matter what you have done".

 

[Brandon777]

Not to be contentious with you, but I disagree. Jesus is the foundation of Christiandom. Without Jesus, we would have no breath, for He created all things and substains all things.

Yes, the Bible is important and will never pass away. But it's important to worship God Himself, and not to worship His word. There's a difference you see.

Have a blessed day! Great to see you back on Christian Chat.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness hasn’t overcome it. John 1:1 That's all I have to say about that.

 

[jamie26301]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness hasn’t overcome it. John 1:1 That's all I have to say about that.

Yes, the Word was in the Greek logos, which is talking about Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Word that was with God in the beginning. It's important to worship Jesus rather than the things Jesus says. To worship anything other than God -- even His word -- is idolatry.

So many Christians worship the Bible. For example, I had Christians look at me like I'm nuts because I tore out pages of a Bible to carry with me that had verses on them that comforted me, and I didn't want to carry the whole thing.

Don't get me wrong, I love Scripture. Today I carry a big AMP/NKJV Bible with me everywhere. It's all marked up, in highlighter and pencil. I cross reference verses myself. I love reading the Bible, and drawing on it's wisdom and teaching.

I used to worship the Bible. I was Lutheran and held to what was in the Latin Sola Scriptura, meaning Scripture Alone. I used to be so obsessed with the things God said that I actually started to turn against my breathren because they didn't have the same interpretation that I did.

The only problem with Scripture Alone is that there are many different ways to interpret Scripture. You can look at it literally or symbolicly. What Christians often do is get into fights, because one Christian reads it one way, and the other Christian reads it another way. Well, both Christians believe it's God's word and both Christians believe they are right about their interpretation. So now, they are yelling at one another, accusing one another that the other doesn't accept God's word, when in reality, they just don't agree about what God's word says. Hence the divisions which results.

My best advice in knowing what the word of God says for yourself, is to read read read. And be open. Read literature from all different denominations. If at all possible, (and I'm going to do this) learn the Greek and Hebrew languages because the meaning of a word in its original language may be entirely different from it's English translation. And the other thing to do is to read on culture context. What was life like for the Jews, for the Greeks, for the other cultures mentioned in the Bible? That will help shed light on the meaning of some of the symbolism used in the Bible. One last thing: Look into the Church Fathers. Look into Justin the Martyr and Augustine and all those theological giants. They tackled the questions before you did.

Have a blessed day, and I pray that you will come to a clear understanding of Scripture for yourself.

 

[jandian]

This world is getting scarier by the minute..........