Predestination is misunderstood...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,124
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,124
sawdust said:
Who said anything about free will. If it is not your volition (will) you are using to make choices, what are you using?
Click to expand...
That's easy when your saved it should be the will of the fruits in your heart 😊

All the fruits have the fathers will
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,126
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,126
sawdust said:
And when you're unsaved, you think you don't have a will? Your response makes no sense. :confused:
Click to expand...
.you have will but it's not free when your unsaved it's cursed


Why would you be concerned about the will of an unsaved person.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,127
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,127
Dino246 said:
Because I’m not interested in getting sidetracked.
Click to expand...
Surly when the seed is planted in the heart, the will that is already there in the heart of the believer, has to surrender to the will of the father, 🤔

Or else why would the seed be removed
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2,130
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,797
113
#2,130
Thunderrr-mental said:
That's easy when your saved it should be the will of the fruits in your heart 😊

All the fruits have the fathers will
Click to expand...
Fruit does not have a will at all. Not in the natural, and not in the spiritual.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2,131
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,797
113
#2,131
Thunderrr-mental said:
Surly when the seed is planted in the heart, the will that is already there in the heart of the believer, has to surrender to the will of the father, 🤔

Or else why would the seed be removed
Click to expand...
The seed is not removed. It simply doesn’t bear fruit.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,134
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,134
Dino246 said:
Fruit does not have a will at all. Not in the natural, and not in the spiritual.
Click to expand...
Explain why none of theese fruits have will


Galatians 5:22-23

New International Version



22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

According to this they can't be controlled by law.

What causes them not be controlled


And why do none of theese fruits have will

Explain this to me
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2,135
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,797
113
#2,135
Thunderrr-mental said:
Explain why none of theese fruits have will


Galatians 5:22-23

New International Version



22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

According to this they can't be controlled by law.

What causes them not be controlled


And why do none of theese fruits have will

Explain this to me
Click to expand...
Fruit does not have a will because God did not endow fruit with a soul.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,137
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,137
Johann said:
You can study the doctrine of free will from one or two camps-that of Reformed, or that of Arminian and what stands written-Perfect Tense.












open theism
A movement emerging from within evangelicalism that denies the historic Christian view of God’s omniscience, teaching instead that God does not know the future exhaustively, since he cannot know for certain the choices and actions of free creatures until the choices are made and the actions are done in time; the future, then, is not certain, but “open,” for both God and his creatures; also called free will theism, open theology, or openness of God theology.

Scripture that disproves open theism:
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

17 How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18 If I would count them, they are more than the sand.
I awake, and I am still with you. (Psalm 139:16-18 ESV)

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will…. (Ephesians 1:11 ESV)

Belgic Confession, Article 13:
We believe that this good God, after he created all things, did not abandon them to chance or fortune but leads and governs them according to his holy will, in such a way that nothing happens in this world without his orderly arrangement.

Yet God is not the author of, nor can he be charged with, the sin that occurs. For his power and goodness are so great and incomprehensible that he arranges and does his work very well and justly even when the devils and wicked men act unjustly.

We do not wish to inquire with undue curiosity into what he does that surpasses human understanding and is beyond our ability to comprehend. But in all humility and reverence we adore the just judgments of God, which are hidden from us, being content to be Christ’s disciples, so as to learn only what he shows us in his Word, without going beyond those limits.

This doctrine gives us unspeakable comfort since it teaches us that nothing can happen to us by chance but only by the arrangement of our gracious heavenly Father. He watches over us with fatherly care, keeping all creatures under his control, so that not one of the hairs on our heads (for they are all numbered) nor even a little bird can fall to the ground without the will of our Father.

In this thought we rest, knowing that he holds in check the devils and all our enemies, who cannot hurt us without his permission and will.

From Their God Is Too Small by Bruce Ware:
[T]he very greatness, goodness, and glory of God are undermined by the open view of God. While the open view tries to understand God as more “relational” and “really involved” in human affairs, the way it does so is by portraying God as less than he truly is. Of the open view we cannot help but say, “Their God is too small!”

Think about it. Here we have a God who has to wait, in so many, many cases, to see what we will do before he can decide his own course of action. While this is a very natural way to think of human choice and action, does this rightly apply to the God of the Bible?

The true and living God of the Bible proclaims, “I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose’” (Isa. 46:9b-10).

Surely such a majestic God stands high and exalted and far above the proposed God of the open view. The Bible’s abundant prophecies, most of which involve innumerable future free human choices and actions, should be enough by themselves to indicate that the true God does not have to wait to see what we do before he makes up his mind.

If God doesn’t know what we will do before we do it, how could Christ, for example, warn Peter that before the rooster crowed, Peter would deny him three times (John 13:38)? Was this a good guess on Jesus’ part? Hardly! Recall that just a few verses earlier in John 13 Jesus had told the disciples that he would begin telling them things before they take place so that when they occur, “you may believe that I am he” (John 13:19). God knows in advance what we will do, and he can, when he wishes, declare it to us as evidence of his very deity. The open view brings God down, pure and simple. It tries to give more significance to human choice and action at the expense of the very greatness and glory of God. The God of open theism is too small, simply because he is less than the majestic, fully knowing, altogether wise God of the Bible.

Shalom
J.
Click to expand...
how does God know what we do before we do it.

That's more important


Is it because he sets all future of all people.

Or is it because his spirit can live in a time that's ahead of us. But still able to live in our time also

My life time experience would be apart of his spirit which is everywhere, my incline is God is living in a time at least 1 year ahead of us.

Ask yourself do the many who won't be saved ever truly know God's possibilities, when it's comes to them having a premonitions

Do you get get premonitions, is this your concern
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2,140
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,797
113
#2,140
Thunderrr-mental said:
how do you know its not God removing it
Click to expand...
Oh. My. Goodness. How freaking dense can you be and still breathe? You literally *just* argued that Scripture says the devil comes and takes away the seed.

This is why discourse with you is so frustrating: you can’t follow the thread of conversation!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.