Predestination is misunderstood...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,241
Mar 1, 2022
19,193
6,607
113
62
#2,241
Genez said:
God has granted each one of us our own domain to use our volition within.
Its according to his knowing what our limits and strengths are.
That is why He is fair in judging and evaluating man.
Click to expand...
Ok. But fairness isn't an attribute of God. Justice is.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,242
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,242
Dino246 said:
Okay… you understand the word as a verb. Now try to understand it as a noun.
Click to expand...
the object of the verb is to work his will in people,

Thats the noun of the verb.

Where as your object of the verb is the purpose of the will.

The will is his purpose, his will is everything, that's what your not seeing, as the object of the verb, ie the noun of the verb
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#2,243
Oct 29, 2023
3,474
455
83
#2,243
Cameron143 said:
You mistake will with desire. If God were to will something and it did not come to pass, He is less than scripture claims He is. Read Daniel 4:35 again...He DOES His will. He doesn't simply purpose it, but brings it to fruition.
Click to expand...
Romans 7 specifically identifies will as desire prior to the accompanying actio or failure to act in accord with the desire. Where are you getting your definition of will from as used in the Bible.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#2,244
May 21, 2022
5,896
2,284
113
#2,244
Cameron143 said:
It says who will have all men saved is not saying He wills people saved, but that He desires all men saved. That is, this is His preference. He takes no pleasure in the death and destruction of man. But He does not will it. It is not accurate to say He wills it. This is a distortion of meaning and grammar. All that God wills comes to pass.
Click to expand...
If God chooses as you stated in a prior post, then He denies salvation to others.

This is inescapable logical conclusion of this soteriology.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#2,245
May 21, 2022
5,896
2,284
113
#2,245
Cameron143 said:
The sin that isn't forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Unbelief is a sin everyone has committed. If that isn't forgiven, no one would be saved.

People assign falsely to God and distort what is true of God. God is more than just love. You hear all the time that...my God would never send someone to hell. That this is inconsistent with a loving God. And yet, people in large numbers lift up their eyes in hell and He's still a loving God. People say it would be unfair of God not to give everyone an opportunity to get saved. But there have been people groups who never heard the gospel. Yet God remains just. He never claimed to be fair. It just shows how easily people can misrepresent God and assume things about Him that simply aren't true.

God gets just as much glory in the exercise of one attribute as another. He is equally glorified in the exercise of love as He is in the exercise of justice. This is a hard thing for many people to accept.
Click to expand...
All the attributes of God are within Him and He is Love, the justice of God is perfectly executed because He is love.

Very sad, the same ole same ole. :(
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,248
Mar 1, 2022
19,193
6,607
113
62
#2,248
PaulThomson said:
Romans 7 specifically identifies will as desire prior to the accompanying actio or failure to act in accord with the desire. Where are you getting your definition of will from as used in the Bible.
Click to expand...
I have no problem with desire being an element of will. But desire alone is not will.

I asked earlier for an example of something that God willed that did not come to pass. Can you share one?

The element of performance in will is in Daniel 4:35...He DOETH His will...

Paul a man. He cannot ensure his will will be performed.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2,249
Jun 30, 2015
25,472
13,784
113
#2,249
Thunderrr-mental said:
why do saved people pray for God's will to be done in earth as it is in heaven

Don't forget your earth to. Infact your dust
Click to expand...
“As well” is “too”, not “to”. “In fact” is two separate words, and the next word is “you’re”, not “your”. These things are elementary.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,250
Mar 1, 2022
19,193
6,607
113
62
#2,250
HeIsHere said:
All the attributes of God are within Him and He is Love, the justice of God is perfectly executed because He is love.

Very sad, the same ole same ole. :(
Click to expand...
Is God just? Is that a divine attribute?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,251
Mar 1, 2022
19,193
6,607
113
62
#2,251
HeIsHere said:
If God chooses as you stated in a prior post, then He denies salvation to others.

This is inescapable logical conclusion of this soteriology.
Click to expand...
Incorrect. Men fit themselves for destruction. He must act in order for someone to be saved. He need do nothing for someone to perish. Men are born under wrath and condemnation already.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#2,252
Jul 3, 2015
60,140
29,452
113
#2,252
Cameron143 said:
Incorrect. Men fit themselves for destruction. He must act in order for someone to be saved. He need do nothing for someone to perish. Men are born under wrath and condemnation already.
Click to expand...
Men don't have to do anything to be fit for destruction.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,253
Mar 1, 2022
19,193
6,607
113
62
#2,253
Magenta said:
Men don't have to do anything to be fit for destruction.
Click to expand...
I was attempting to be consistent with the language of Romans 9. And while men need do nothing, all unsaved people do actually perform deeds that culminate in their destruction. This is similar to Jesus telling the Pharisees to fill up their measure.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#2,254
Jul 3, 2015
60,140
29,452
113
#2,254
Cameron143 said:
I was attempting to be consistent with the language of Romans 9. And while men need do nothing, all unsaved people do
actually perform deeds that culminate in their destruction. This is similar to Jesus telling the Pharisees to fill up their measure.
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand... and your subsequent sentences from the same post did rather make that point also.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#2,255
Oct 12, 2017
2,931
419
83
#2,255
Cameron143 said:
You missed my assumption. I didn't say we can't purpose and do. I said we can't ensure it will happen. All you did was misrepresent what I said; not prove it to be false.
Read James 4:13-15 for the understanding of what I actually said.
Click to expand...

You can purpose to fall down on the floor... And, it will happen.


..............
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,256
Mar 1, 2022
19,193
6,607
113
62
#2,256
Magenta said:
Yes, I understand... and your subsequent sentences from the same post did rather make that point also.
Click to expand...
I apologize. After going through a number of posts having my words taken to mean other than I intended or having positions assumed that don't necessarily follow, I didn't recognize an affirming post. Thanks.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,258
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,258
Dino246 said:
“As well” is “too”, not “to”. “In fact” is two separate words, and the next word is “you’re”, not “your”. These things are elementary.
Click to expand...
well maybe thou is is only seeing one object of the verb,

When it comes to will there is more than one object 😊
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#2,259
Oct 12, 2017
2,931
419
83
#2,259
Cameron143 said:
Ok. But fairness isn't an attribute of God. Justice is.
Click to expand...
1 John 1:9....

​
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."​


....and we have?


just
/jəst/
adjective

Based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.


What is the synonym of just?

upright; equitable, fair, impartial ​


I said that just to be fair....

grace and peace ...............
 
You must log in or register to reply here.