Amillennialism
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A
No i wasnt mocking. everlasting is either forever, or its for the length of a time period.
Or its considered to extend into the final state. These are real in the bible.
I try to follow these threads, but at times its difficult. And when things
seem to go off and i dont understand, or am misunderstood. Its a good time to
let it go and read.
Or its considered to extend into the final state. These are real in the bible.
I try to follow these threads, but at times its difficult. And when things
seem to go off and i dont understand, or am misunderstood. Its a good time to
let it go and read.
Top Ten Reasons the Dispensationalist Did Not Cross the Road
by C Michael PattonJuly 22nd, 2010
10. By taking a consistently literal approach, we thought that “cross the road” meant something about the crucifixion.
9. We thought that the other side was for Israel and this side was for the church.
8. Charles Ryrie was still on this side of the road, why cross?
7. It is pointless since Jesus is just going to bring us back after 7 years.
6. Like the OT prophets and the church age, we were unable to see the other side.
5. We counted and it would take 18 steps. That divided by 3 is 6. 666. Therefore, it would be taking the mark of the beast.
4. We were not a part of the ‘crossing’ dispensation.
3. Dallas Theological Seminary has yet published anything telling us how to do it.
2. It was crossing from HWY 69 to HWY 70. That road is meant only for Israel. < Daniel's 70th week
1. We thought we would be raptured before we got there anyway.
Top Ten Reason the Dispensationalist Did Not Cross the Road | Parchment and Pen
by C Michael PattonJuly 22nd, 2010
10. By taking a consistently literal approach, we thought that “cross the road” meant something about the crucifixion.
9. We thought that the other side was for Israel and this side was for the church.
8. Charles Ryrie was still on this side of the road, why cross?
7. It is pointless since Jesus is just going to bring us back after 7 years.
6. Like the OT prophets and the church age, we were unable to see the other side.
5. We counted and it would take 18 steps. That divided by 3 is 6. 666. Therefore, it would be taking the mark of the beast.
4. We were not a part of the ‘crossing’ dispensation.
3. Dallas Theological Seminary has yet published anything telling us how to do it.
2. It was crossing from HWY 69 to HWY 70. That road is meant only for Israel. < Daniel's 70th week
1. We thought we would be raptured before we got there anyway.
Top Ten Reason the Dispensationalist Did Not Cross the Road | Parchment and Pen
Top Ten Reasons the Dispensationalist Did Not Cross the Road
by C Michael PattonJuly 22nd, 2010
10. By taking a consistently literal approach, we thought that “cross the road” meant something about the crucifixion.
9. We thought that the other side was for Israel and this side was for the church.
8. Charles Ryrie was still on this side of the road, why cross?
7. It is pointless since Jesus is just going to bring us back after 7 years.
6. Like the OT prophets and the church age, we were unable to see the other side.
5. We counted and it would take 18 steps. That divided by 3 is 6. 666. Therefore, it would be taking the mark of the beast.
4. We were not a part of the ‘crossing’ dispensation.
3. Dallas Theological Seminary has yet published anything telling us how to do it.
2. It was crossing from HWY 69 to HWY 70. That road is meant only for Israel. < Daniel's 70th week
1. We thought we would be raptured before we got there anyway.
Top Ten Reason the Dispensationalist Did Not Cross the Road | Parchment and Pen
by C Michael PattonJuly 22nd, 2010
10. By taking a consistently literal approach, we thought that “cross the road” meant something about the crucifixion.
9. We thought that the other side was for Israel and this side was for the church.
8. Charles Ryrie was still on this side of the road, why cross?
7. It is pointless since Jesus is just going to bring us back after 7 years.
6. Like the OT prophets and the church age, we were unable to see the other side.
5. We counted and it would take 18 steps. That divided by 3 is 6. 666. Therefore, it would be taking the mark of the beast.
4. We were not a part of the ‘crossing’ dispensation.
3. Dallas Theological Seminary has yet published anything telling us how to do it.
2. It was crossing from HWY 69 to HWY 70. That road is meant only for Israel. < Daniel's 70th week
1. We thought we would be raptured before we got there anyway.
Top Ten Reason the Dispensationalist Did Not Cross the Road | Parchment and Pen
Red
i know you are a dispensationalist.
and i know you have no intention of even considering that that system is flawed.
i'm not going to take offense. i am sorry you make this about emotions and mockery.
Darby and Scofield made a mockery of God's Plan. not PPS or i.
but neither will i ever uphold such a corruption of God's Covenental Redemptive Plan which is antithetical to everything dispensationalism and millennialism espouse (particularly pretribulation rapture added to premillennialism): all foreign imports to the scriptures.
bad hermeneutics overlaid onto a beautifully flowing story of Redemption that is about God calling out for Himself one people, jew and gentile. and he has been doing it from the beginning.
i know you are a dispensationalist.
and i know you have no intention of even considering that that system is flawed.
i'm not going to take offense. i am sorry you make this about emotions and mockery.
Darby and Scofield made a mockery of God's Plan. not PPS or i.
but neither will i ever uphold such a corruption of God's Covenental Redemptive Plan which is antithetical to everything dispensationalism and millennialism espouse (particularly pretribulation rapture added to premillennialism): all foreign imports to the scriptures.
bad hermeneutics overlaid onto a beautifully flowing story of Redemption that is about God calling out for Himself one people, jew and gentile. and he has been doing it from the beginning.
here's an example of mocking:
Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
a beautiful and perfect prophecy of the Coming Most Holy, The Lamb of God to fulfill God's ancient Promises, totally fulfilled to the day, in perfect Harmony and Faithfulness....even noting that Titus would physically tear down the Old System.
~
BUT, certain men took that central prophecy and turned it into something some future satanic figure performs by injecting a 2000 year GAP:
Because Dispensationalism adheres to the principle of literal interpretation and recognizes the scriptural distinction between God's program for Israel and the Church, it understands the historical completion of Israel's restoration must take place in a future week. During this time (as described in vs. 27), there is a resumption of the messianic program for Israel with the overthrow of the Antichrist (the apocalyptic prerequisite to the establishment of the messianic kingdom).
Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
a beautiful and perfect prophecy of the Coming Most Holy, The Lamb of God to fulfill God's ancient Promises, totally fulfilled to the day, in perfect Harmony and Faithfulness....even noting that Titus would physically tear down the Old System.
~
BUT, certain men took that central prophecy and turned it into something some future satanic figure performs by injecting a 2000 year GAP:
Because Dispensationalism adheres to the principle of literal interpretation and recognizes the scriptural distinction between God's program for Israel and the Church, it understands the historical completion of Israel's restoration must take place in a future week. During this time (as described in vs. 27), there is a resumption of the messianic program for Israel with the overthrow of the Antichrist (the apocalyptic prerequisite to the establishment of the messianic kingdom).
C
Lolz zone, you know me, peace at all costs to my detriment, and I use Gods Word.
I tend to focus on the main act of the bible, Jesus and the cross, I try to anyway, and things of salvation. Rapture and stuff and like that, hey time to go I'm ready lolz I won't even think of packing. 1000yr reign, Jesus reigns so as interesting as it is actually when, all good He reigns.
Children eat meat too
I tend to focus on the main act of the bible, Jesus and the cross, I try to anyway, and things of salvation. Rapture and stuff and like that, hey time to go I'm ready lolz I won't even think of packing. 1000yr reign, Jesus reigns so as interesting as it is actually when, all good He reigns.
Children eat meat too
The Jewish Wedding and the Rapture
Understanding the Rapture from Jewish Wedding Traditions
Introduction
The title of this article speaks of what many are being taught. That being, Jewish Wedding traditions, parallel the Church as the Bride of Christ and the Groom, Christ, coming for His Bride as depicted within these traditions. The Jewish Wedding traditions being discussed are the rabbinic teachings found within the Talmud and Kabbalah. That means they come from those who had rejected Jesus Christ and which same writings denigrate and blaspheme Him. They are not a source for believers. Despite what many many are doing to inculcate Christian beliefs with them.
Many are being lured into Hebrew Roots by such ways as this. There is nowhere in Scripture where we are to take Jewish traditions as a way to interpret Scriptures. While these teachings concerning the Jewish Wedding traditions are much used by Messianic Jews, they are also found within the Christian community and those who specifically parallel them to the Rapture and as a way to attempt to confirm the rapture belief.
Some Jewish sites have stated that very little is provided in the Torah with regard to the procedures of a marriage, and therefore, the Talmud provides the method for providing a spouse, the form of the wedding ceremony, and the nature of the marital relationship.
Many become interested in Hebrew Roots and then involved with Hebrew Roots because of this issue, and with it the road is paved to accepting more false teachings and error.
If you were to peruse most pre-trib forums and some Messianic ones, this teaching is being discussed and promoted time and again. And it is found written about on many websites.
As has been mentioned, the Jewish Wedding ceremony that Christians and Messianic's are accessing to make the parallel of and for proving the rapture, comes from the Talmud. That means the source that is being declared as being about Christ and Christians, is a source that clearly and openly rejects and denigrates Jesus Christ and Christians. It is not a source of doctrine for Christians.
http://www.seekgod.ca/rapturewedding.htm
i do not know if the author is an amillennial believer or no (doesn't matter).
i'm posting this for a friend here at CC who is taking a look at THE TALMUD and what it means for us as Christians.
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E
The problem is you stll have the covenant. Yet I have heard no one mention the covenant. Which comes AFTER titus destroys Jerusalem. Then you have him breaking that covenant 3 1/2 years in. By committing the abomination. of what temple (since titus destroyed the temple BEFORE the covenant)
You say we are mocking, Yet I believe it is mocking to ignore this this covenant By either saying it never happened. or did not happen when God said ity would (after the destruction)
So again it goes both ways It depends on how you look at it.
i didn't say you personally were mocking EG.
its what you were taught.
i said the Scofield reference notes made a mockery. as do the CFR guys who churn out their books (they know).
The Prophecy of Daniel 9
9:21 Yea, whiles I [was] speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
9:22 And he informed [me], and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to show [thee]; for thou [art] greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined* shall be poured upon the desolate.
"The burden of Christ's preaching was, 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent ye, and believe the gospel.' Thus the gospel message, as given by the Savior Himself, was based on the prophecies. The 'time' which He declared to be fulfilled was the period made known by the angel Gabriel to Daniel. 'Seventy weeks,' said the angel, 'are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.' (Dan. 9:24) A day in prophecy stands for a year. (See Num. 14:34; Ezek. 4:6) The seventy weeks, or four hundred and ninety days, represent four hundred and ninety years.
"A starting point for this '70 weeks' period is given: 'Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks,' sixty-nine weeks, or four hundred and eighty-three years. (Dan. 9:25) The commandment to restore and build Jerusalem, as completed by the decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus (see Ezra 6:14; 7:1, 9, margin), went into effect in the autumn of B. C. 457. From this time four hundred and eighty-three years extend to the autumn of A. D. 27. According to the prophecy, this period was to reach to the Messiah, the Anointed One. In A. D. 27, Jesus at His baptism received the anointing of the Holy Spirit, and soon afterward began His ministry. Then the message was proclaimed. 'The time is fulfilled.'
"Then, said the angel, 'He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years).' For seven years after the Savior entered on His ministry, the gospel was to be preached especially to the Jews; for three and a half years by Christ Himself; and afterward by the apostles. 'In the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.' (Dan. 9:27) In the spring of A. D. 31, Christ the true sacrifice was offered on Calvary. Then the veil of the temple was rent in twain, showing that the sacredness and significance of the sacrificial service had departed. The time had come for the earthly sacrifice and oblation to cease.
"The one week--seven years--ended in A. D. 34. Then by the stoning of Stephen the Jews finally sealed their rejection of the gospel; the disciples who were scattered abroad by persecution 'went everywhere preaching the word' (Acts 8:4); and shortly after, Saul the persecutor was converted, and became Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles.
"The time of Christ's coming, His anointing by the Holy Spirit, His death, and the giving of the gospel to the Gentiles, were definitely pointed out."
Daniel 9
even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate:
Luke 19
Jesus Weeps over Jerusalem
41And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, 42saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side 44and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”
Matthew 23:36
I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate:
The Siege of Jerusalem in the year 70 AD was the decisive event of the First Jewish-Roman War. The Roman army, led by the future Emperor Titus, with Tiberius Julius Alexander as his second-in-command, besieged and conquered the city of Jerusalem, which had been occupied by its Jewish defenders in 66.
The siege ended with the sacking of the city and the destruction of its famous Second Temple. The destruction of both the first and second temples is still mourned annually as the Jewish fast Tisha B'Av. The Arch of Titus, celebrating the Roman sack of Jerusalem and the Temple, still stands in Rome.
The sack of Jerusalem, from the inside wall of the Arch of Titus, Rome
DateMarch – September 70
its what you were taught.
i said the Scofield reference notes made a mockery. as do the CFR guys who churn out their books (they know).
The Prophecy of Daniel 9
9:21 Yea, whiles I [was] speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
9:22 And he informed [me], and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to show [thee]; for thou [art] greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined* shall be poured upon the desolate.
"The burden of Christ's preaching was, 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent ye, and believe the gospel.' Thus the gospel message, as given by the Savior Himself, was based on the prophecies. The 'time' which He declared to be fulfilled was the period made known by the angel Gabriel to Daniel. 'Seventy weeks,' said the angel, 'are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.' (Dan. 9:24) A day in prophecy stands for a year. (See Num. 14:34; Ezek. 4:6) The seventy weeks, or four hundred and ninety days, represent four hundred and ninety years.
"A starting point for this '70 weeks' period is given: 'Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks,' sixty-nine weeks, or four hundred and eighty-three years. (Dan. 9:25) The commandment to restore and build Jerusalem, as completed by the decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus (see Ezra 6:14; 7:1, 9, margin), went into effect in the autumn of B. C. 457. From this time four hundred and eighty-three years extend to the autumn of A. D. 27. According to the prophecy, this period was to reach to the Messiah, the Anointed One. In A. D. 27, Jesus at His baptism received the anointing of the Holy Spirit, and soon afterward began His ministry. Then the message was proclaimed. 'The time is fulfilled.'
"Then, said the angel, 'He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years).' For seven years after the Savior entered on His ministry, the gospel was to be preached especially to the Jews; for three and a half years by Christ Himself; and afterward by the apostles. 'In the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.' (Dan. 9:27) In the spring of A. D. 31, Christ the true sacrifice was offered on Calvary. Then the veil of the temple was rent in twain, showing that the sacredness and significance of the sacrificial service had departed. The time had come for the earthly sacrifice and oblation to cease.
"The one week--seven years--ended in A. D. 34. Then by the stoning of Stephen the Jews finally sealed their rejection of the gospel; the disciples who were scattered abroad by persecution 'went everywhere preaching the word' (Acts 8:4); and shortly after, Saul the persecutor was converted, and became Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles.
"The time of Christ's coming, His anointing by the Holy Spirit, His death, and the giving of the gospel to the Gentiles, were definitely pointed out."
Daniel 9
even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate:
Luke 19
Jesus Weeps over Jerusalem
41And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, 42saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side 44and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”
Matthew 23:36
I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate:
The Siege of Jerusalem in the year 70 AD was the decisive event of the First Jewish-Roman War. The Roman army, led by the future Emperor Titus, with Tiberius Julius Alexander as his second-in-command, besieged and conquered the city of Jerusalem, which had been occupied by its Jewish defenders in 66.
The siege ended with the sacking of the city and the destruction of its famous Second Temple. The destruction of both the first and second temples is still mourned annually as the Jewish fast Tisha B'Av. The Arch of Titus, celebrating the Roman sack of Jerusalem and the Temple, still stands in Rome.
The sack of Jerusalem, from the inside wall of the Arch of Titus, Rome
DateMarch – September 70
E
No Zone it is not what I was taught. And I wish you would stop saying this. I was taught alot of false stuff as a kid. And I have overcome many of those false things by studying myself.
I did not come up with this covenant thing by reading what someone said. I came up with it because God said it would happen.
Yet neither you or strangelove want to speak on it. Like it is not even a valid topic. Why would it not be? Did Not God through Gabriel say (this is going to happen)
1. People of prince to COME will destroy sanctuary.
2. Price will sine a 1 week covenant (7 years)
3. In the middle of that (3 1/2 years) he, The prince) will commit the abomination.
We have it in black and white. this is what Gabriel said to Daniel, Why would we say, yep. the sanctuary was destroyed. But don't worry about the covenant and abomination (which even Christ spoke of) which is supposed to happen AFTER this destruction.
It does not make sense to me Zone. I can't just ignore it.
One of the reasons I stopped placing my faith in books is because EVERY author I have ever written make great points. The also make some very bad points which are not scriptural but their interpretaion.
I saw myself looking at the great points, and thinking if he is right on these, he must be right on all his points. Then I would read another. and the same thing happened. Only this time the great points proved the other Author wrong on points I found out were not great. I was taken on a whirlwind by getting all these things.
I could read all those posts about ammilenialism and find some very good points. I could also fall into the trap of thinking since they are right here, they must be right everywhere else.
The same would happen if I read a premillenial writings (and has happened to me) And I could do the same for them. That is why we risk falling into a trap reading what others say. (Yep this is a great point. Thus they all must be true)
I love reading, and I will continue. But I test EVERYTHING out now. I don't trust ANYONE
I did not come up with this covenant thing by reading what someone said. I came up with it because God said it would happen.
Yet neither you or strangelove want to speak on it. Like it is not even a valid topic. Why would it not be? Did Not God through Gabriel say (this is going to happen)
1. People of prince to COME will destroy sanctuary.
2. Price will sine a 1 week covenant (7 years)
3. In the middle of that (3 1/2 years) he, The prince) will commit the abomination.
We have it in black and white. this is what Gabriel said to Daniel, Why would we say, yep. the sanctuary was destroyed. But don't worry about the covenant and abomination (which even Christ spoke of) which is supposed to happen AFTER this destruction.
It does not make sense to me Zone. I can't just ignore it.
One of the reasons I stopped placing my faith in books is because EVERY author I have ever written make great points. The also make some very bad points which are not scriptural but their interpretaion.
I saw myself looking at the great points, and thinking if he is right on these, he must be right on all his points. Then I would read another. and the same thing happened. Only this time the great points proved the other Author wrong on points I found out were not great. I was taken on a whirlwind by getting all these things.
I could read all those posts about ammilenialism and find some very good points. I could also fall into the trap of thinking since they are right here, they must be right everywhere else.
The same would happen if I read a premillenial writings (and has happened to me) And I could do the same for them. That is why we risk falling into a trap reading what others say. (Yep this is a great point. Thus they all must be true)
I love reading, and I will continue. But I test EVERYTHING out now. I don't trust ANYONE