How Do Christians Date Without Viewing Their Potential Prospects as Sex Objects in Their Minds?

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

(This is going to be a long post.)

A conversation in another forum had me thinking about something that has always made me uncomfortable with the dating scene:

SteveEpperson said: In fact, I often ask about what a woman's most romantic date was or what her very first kiss was like.

bruh. no.

I totally get your reaction here. You, like most other men, have been told never to have such an intimate conversation with a woman you just met. But let's face it, if you want her to marry you, at some point, she will have to view you as a future sexual partner. There's no way around that. So, by the time you get engaged to be married, you are so on fire for each other that only the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit can restrain you.

(Long time members here know that @notmyown is a Christian woman who is married, but the person replying did not realize that.)

* We all know that one of the biggest "hurdles" to dating/finding a spouse is to somehow not be classified by someone as an automatic part of the "Friend Zone."

* But, as Christians, how do we handle the other side of the coin -- how do we honor others in our minds, exploring whether or not we have romantic feelings for them, but WITHOUT turning them into, what the world would call "Someone I'd Like to (Do Adult Things With)"? (The world uses words for this I can't repeat.)

This has always bothered me and is a big part of why I removed myself from the dating scene. Call me a prude or whatever else, but I'm not comfortable with men automatically seeing me or my picture and thinking, "Gee, could I see myself having sex with her?" Which, let's face it, is guaranteed to happen to when people sizing each other up as potential spouses.

And to be honest, I really don't like the idea of picturing men I barely know that way either. Sure, call me frigid or whatever, but I really don't want to train my mind to be constantly thinking, "Gee, I wonder if I could picture myself having sex with this guy or not..." I just don't think that's a healthy frame of mind for a Christian. But, I can only speak for myself.

I don't know where the lines are between honoring another person -- and seeing them as the potential candidate to work out all the thoughts human nature, advertising, and social media have put in your head -- but as a Christian, you're trying so hard to keep behind a steel gate (that often feels more like wet paper.)

We all know Jesus said in Matthew 5:28 -- "But I tell you, whoever stares at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." And we all know that this applies to anyone and everyone -- man or woman -- who is doing the wrong thinking.

So...

* What are the lines between envisioning someone romantically, but keeping it within the boundaries of what God wants for us?

At my Lutheran school, one of the boys figured out a "genius" solution (in his own mind) saying, "Well, if you just fantasize that you're married to the person, then it's ok."

Things that make you go, "Hmm."

Yes, this is exactly how it starts -- people fantasizing someone is theirs, even if they belong to someone else.

I understand that some people might see me as being legalistic, and some might say that I'm just flattering myself to think that anyone might ever think the wrong things about me. I understand that. I've stated several times on the forum that one of the reasons I'm single is because I prefer not to attach myself to anyone who is hooked on pornography, and everyone says, "No wonder, you're single -- and always will be."

And the reason I feel this way is NOT because of judging anyone, but because from the time I was a kid myself (summer camp,) God has sent me people (both boys and girls, men and women) who pour their hearts out about being sexually abused, and in order to pray for them, I feel like I need to try to stay away from those things. I've dated guys who surrounded themselves with those things, and it's not something I want to be around.

I'm certainly not trying to say I'm perfect or that one has to have a perfect track record in order to pray -- it's just that I feel God is trying to keep the lines between abuse/sin vs. God's will for intimacy very distinct in my heart and mind, and I can't do that if I'm surrounded by a host of things that blur those lines. And I know it's part of God wanting me to try to help people who have been through horrible things.

I might sound very juvenile for saying this, but I'm not sure how to date/wonder if I have romantic feelings for someone, while still keeping the lines/thoughts in my mind pure. And it's very important to me, because when you have listened to men talk about being sexually abused and you're holding their hand while they're sobbing in shame and grief -- it makes me extremely cautious about crossing the lines in my mind with someone. My job as a Christian is to be respectful and try to help them work through their burden, not add to it in the form of improper thoughts, even if it's something only seen by God.

Does anyone else have an idea of how this goes?

As stated in the opening conversation -- how do you "view someone as a future sexual partner" -- without ever having a sexual thought about them? Perhaps some weren't raised in such a "Puritan" atmosphere, but that's basically what my Lutheran schools/church was teaching us to to do. "Stay pure as a white sheet -- don't do it, don't think about it, and don't ask us about it -- but on the day you marry, go out there and be a total tiger for your new God-given spouse!!"

Um... What?! Ok. I realize that's an entirely different conversation.

But seriously.

* How do you date people and keep yourself pure (never having any sexual thoughts about them?)

* How do you decide if you feel romantically towards someone without ever picturing anything sexual with them? (I'm certainly not saying one has to picture these things to decide, but God seems to advise against this and I'm asking others how they find it possible.)

* Is just being able to picture yourself kissing the person enough? (At various times, we've had some subsets on the forum who believe even the first kiss should be saved for marriage, so even that could be seen as scandalous.)

I have wondered about these issues my whole life and would really be blessed by hearing other Christians -- both single and married -- share their wisdom and experiences in how to deal with this topic.

 

[PennEd]

How Do Christians Date Without Viewing Their Potential Prospects as Sex Objects in Their Minds?

We don’t. We’re human beings and sexual attraction is part of our DNA.

Although, I wouldn’t use the phrase “sex objects”. I think there’s more to a dating relationship than sex. But make no mistake, that a big part of it.

 

[seoulsearch]

We don’t. We’re human beings and sexual attraction is part of our DNA. Although, I wouldn’t use the phrase “sex objects”. I think there’s more to a dating relationship than sex. But make no mistake, that a big part of it.

Hi Ed!

I'm thankful that you are sharing with us as a married Christian.

The reason I chose the phrase "sex objects" is because I think, especially in today's culture and with so many people being caught up in the snare of pornography, the line between "seeing someone as your potential sexual partner spouse" and "seeing someone as something you can act out all your thoughts on" becomes very blurred in the dating situation.

Especially if people have very active dating lives in which they are meeting/talking to/flirting with people all the time whom they might see as a "potential sexual partner spouse."

If someone is dating new people every week/month, and thinking about each one, "Could I see myself having sex with this person?", how many people can that person go through without it starting to be like herding cattle through one's mind, always "picturing" the "potential" of "certain things with them" -- where is the line between valuing each person as an individual, and seeing them as a possibility to work their fantasies out on?

This might just be me, but I think that situation runs a huge risk of starting to see people as a little more than a line-up of potential sexual fantasies -- little more than objects to be experimented on in their minds.

For anyone who has learned to do this in a Christian way, I'm all ears and hoping to discover their methods in this thread.

 

[Karlon]

that's a very tough deal for men simply for 1 reason at least: God created a lot of women very beautiful! & God knows we are going to look! all men & women can do is try their best every second to refrain from thinking about romance. develop some fancy rhyme sayings to assist.

 

[seoulsearch]

We don’t. We’re human beings and sexual attraction is part of our DNA. Although, I wouldn’t use the phrase “sex objects”. I think there’s more to a dating relationship than sex. But make no mistake, that a big part of it.

The reason I chose the phrase "sex objects" is because I think, especially in today's culture and with so many people being caught up in the snare of pornography, the line between "seeing someone as your potential sexual partner spouse" and "seeing someone as something you can act out all your thoughts on" becomes very blurred in the dating situation.

Especially if people have very active dating lives in which they are meeting/talking to/flirting with people all the time whom they might see as a "potential sexual partner spouse."

If someone is dating new people every week/month, and thinking about each one, "Could I see myself having sex with this person?", how many people can that person go through without it starting to be like herding cattle through one's mind, always "picturing" the "potential" of "certain things with them" -- where is the line between valuing each person as an individual, and seeing them as a possibility to work their fantasies out on?

This might just be me, but I think that situation runs a huge risk of starting to see people as a little more than a line-up of potential sexual fantasies -- little more than objects to be experimented on in their minds.

For anyone who has learned to do this in a Christian way, I'm all ears and hoping to discover their methods in this thread.

I'm at an age where it's not uncommon for people to have gone on hundreds of dates in their life. Some have been lifelong Christians, others had points in their lives where they fell away or just weren't living out Christian values.

I'm certainly not trying to judge anyone for that.

But what I AM asking is, "If a person is used to filtering out tens, and even hundreds of people as potential sex/marriage partners, what stops any other person from being just a number/object they filter through?"

I'm not trying to say there aren't people out there who are gifted enough to be able to treat dozens or hundreds of individuals as people and not just another number to filter through, but I'm highly doubtful that if someone has filtered 100 or even 50 other women through his mind as a potential marriage/sex partner, he will be able to see me as much of an individual.

And can I treat a man with courtesy and respect he deserves if I've gone through 50 other guys in my head, trying to see myself in an intimate relationship with them, one after the other?

Call me skeptical.

But, I could be wrong.

In fact, this is what I'm waiting for -- I'm waiting for people to tell me I'm wrong -- but then also tell me how they have achieved it, and keep on doing so, all in a way that honors God.

I know this is a very difficult topic -- those are always the ones I gravitate towards the most -- and I have nothing but the highest respect for anyone who chooses to share their input.

 

[RodB651]

"If a person is used to filtering out tens, and even hundreds of people as potential sex/marriage partners, what stops any other person from being just a number/object they filter through?"

I don't know. I would love to meet the guy who can accomplish this.

 

[RodB651]

I would like to think that even at my age (almost 59), if I were dating someone, could I just sit in the same room with this lady and just have a conversation for conversations sake? Could I do this and not think about THAT?

Now I've sat in the same rooms with women friends before and had great conversations and THAT never crossed my mind. But I wasn't dating any of them so those thoughts never happened.

Hope that made sense.

 

[seoulsearch]

I would like to think that even at my age (almost 59), if I were dating someone, could I just sit in the same room with this lady and just have a conversation for conversations sake? Could I do this and not think about THAT?

Now I've sat in the same rooms with women friends before and had great conversations and THAT never crossed my mind. But I wasn't dating any of them so those thoughts never happened.

Hope that made sense.

I can't speak for every woman, but I know for myself, the fact that a guy would be asking himself that honestly, and still trying to put up the good fight, would mean a lot.

I just wanted to add this because I don't want to give anyone the thought that they somehow have to be perfect in order to date.

We're all in a fight against our human nature, and these threads are hopefully meant to inspire people to keep fighting together in our faith and with God's help.

 

[Lynx]

Shoot, I just never bothered.

I always figured that IF I meet a girl, and IF we start talking and hit it off really well, and IF a relationship develops and IF we make it all the way to getting married... We'd figure out all that stuff then.

So I never bothered trying to figure out if I should figure out if I could see myself having sex with a girl. I've never even gotten to the "Is she a nice person?" and "Will she put up with me" parts, and I figured that would come first.

Lots of figuring about figuring, I know... But it saved me a LOT of time figuring out stuff I don't have any business figuring out.

 

[seoulsearch]

It's a curious thing to me that so far, it's been all men who have answered.

I'm not trying to point any fingers and I'm certainly not trying to say it's a man problem, but we've seen a lot of talk in the forums about struggles with lust and the thoughts it stems from and produces -- which I'm sure women struggle with as well.

The answers here also reinforce the thoughts I've had my entire life -- that these are things almost all Christians struggle with regularly, but for whatever reason, the church never addresses it, and most certainly doesn't encourage open discussions of how to deal with it.

I knows the topics going on right now in the Singles Forum are important -- how to talk to someone you might be interested in, how to find and set up a date, even how to flirt, etc.

But you'll have to forgive me if I sound like an old, jaded soul, because these are topics I've heard about my entire life.

The topics I never hear talked about, however, are things like this: how to prevent, confront, and deal with the lustful thoughts that go hand-in-hand with the whole dating process in a way that will honor God.

And I personally find those to be the most interesting.

My own personal coping mechanism has been to pretty much remove myself from the dating scene altogether -- which might not be the healthiest choice and maybe not even the one God wants me to choose.

But that's the very purpose of these threads -- to talk about the nitty gritty beneath the generic surface of dating -- and how we as Christians can learn and find better ways to live it out.

This has always troubled me the most as a Christian, even when I was a kid -- "If these are the things people are having the most problems with, why isn't anyone willing to talk about it?"

 

[Lynx]

This has always troubled me the most as a Christian, even when I was a kid -- "If these are the things people are having the most problems with, why isn't anyone willing to talk about it?"

Well that's the old chicken and the egg conundrum. Are people having the most problems with these issues because nobody talks about them, or are they not talking about them because these problems are so pernicious and damaging?

Personally I lean toward B. Nobody wants to talk about their own battles that they fight every day. People like to talk about battles after they have won them.

Guess we'll have a lot to talk about in heaven.

 

[RodB651]

but for whatever reason, the church never addresses it, and most certainly doesn't encourage open discussions of how to deal with it.

The church doesn't know how to address it because it too struggles with this.

 

[cinder]

This may be the catch 22 that kept me from dating. As a young person the only difference I could see between dating and friendship was the sex aspect, so I just had a lot of guy friends (and nobody gets upset or jealous when you have more than one friend). Now that I'm older, the idea of dating is more about finding someone I don't want to live without than finding someone with a hot bod. I'm not really looking, but that would be the requirement to transition out of my single state.

Beyond that I think it's a lot of trying to be more concerned with another person's well being than your own gratification. And do your best to conduct yourself in such a manner that if you break up, the other person has nothing but good things to say about you.

 

[RodB651]

Now that I'm older, the idea of dating is more about finding someone I don't want to live without than finding someone with a hot bod. I'm not really looking, but that would be the requirement to transition out of my single state.

An excellent point!

 

[seoulsearch]

The church doesn't know how to address it because it too struggles with this.

This is what has frustrated me about the church and Christian community my whole life (and often what gets me into trouble because I'm not very quiet about it.)

To me, the church never talks about what's really going on or what people are really struggling with because it really doesn't know how to deal with it, nor does it demonstrate the power to do anything about it. If it did, people fighting with addictions, crumbling marriages, challenges with their kids, etc. would be having many more victories within the church.

Instead, we're reduced to talking about the same old safe vanilla surface topics over and over again, round and round in the same circles that keep everyone trapped.

Granted, I don't have the answers.

But I told God from the start that I would try my best to be real with anyone who came to me with a problem so many have but no one is talking about (because I often felt I had no one to talk to about the things that troubled me,) which is why I write these kinds of threads.

 

[RodB651]

Instead, we're reduced to talking about the same old safe vanilla surface topics over and over again, round and round in the same circles that keep everyone trapped.

Oh have mercy!!!
😄

 

[seoulsearch]

Oh have mercy!!!
😄

It's funny.

People who claim to be specially-appointed by God always say that people (other than them, of course) can't handle the truth...

But when faced with these kinds of real-life situational truths that everyday people are dealing with, they just pick their favorite horse on merry-go-round to hop back on and keep going round and round -- never giving any actual answers, let alone solutions.

 

[Lynx]

To me, the church never talks about what's really going on or what people are really struggling with because it really doesn't know how to deal with it, nor does it demonstrate the power to do anything about it. If it did, people fighting with addictions, crumbling marriages, challenges with their kids, etc. would be having many more victories within the church.

Eh... At least it's better than if they DID talk about it, spouting off about things they don't know how to deal with. We get a lot of that here on the forum. Sometimes I WISH some people would avoid some topics.

 

[cinder]

Maybe the answers and solutions aren't the kind of answers we want. Most of the time we want the answers like if you just make these 5 points to your rebellious teen their rebellion will stop and life will be happy and peaceful again. Do these 5 things everyday and you'll never face serious illness. Say this prayer everyday for 10 days and you'll meet your perfect match and no longer be single. Etc.

But I think God's answers and solutions aren't so much how to avoid or master life, but help to get through it. It's the friend who reminds you that God is still able to reach your rebellious teen even though they say they want nothing to do with God anymore. It's the people from the church who bring meals when you're ill or just suffered a loss. And the ones who call to check up on your when you haven't been around anymore. It's the fellow believers online who encourage you and care for you when you're stuck at home or life is so up in the air that you're in a season where real life community is pretty much impossible. I think God's answers and his help are designed to come through Christ's body and like Christ we don't escape the crap of the world, we just have God with us to see us through.

 

[seoulsearch]

Eh... At least it's better than if they DID talk about it, spouting off about things they don't know how to deal with. We get a lot of that here on the forum. Sometimes I WISH some people would avoid some topics.

This is a fascinating point, and I suppose, an age-old question.

Is it better to talk about things with a lot of useless nonsense being thrown around, or just not say anything at all?

The signature on my posts says, "Silence Screams Aloud," and this is how I've felt my entire life within the church community. I've always had these questions, but the answer was always to remain silent, and so there's always topics and questions that are silently screaming out loud from the depths within my soul.

I've always been the type of person who can only hold things in for so long. Eventually I have to throw out all the cards and hash things out, no matter how messy.

But I've had to learn the hard way that a lot of people don't seem to be built that way -- and I have to respect that -- and even worse, if you try to cry out to the wrong people, things will wind up much worse than if you'd just continued to hold it inside.

And your post brings up yet another valid point -- sometimes, it's just not worth trying to bring to the table in the first place, because the things people think they have to contribute will only make more of a mess.

Sigh.