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E
Answered like the last one you directed me too? Where there was no answer at all??
Whats wrong man, you afraid to answer questions. Why do you keep directing people to other threads where no answer is given?
Thats alright. We know.. Thanks..
so. about love?? why you not answering?? everyone directed to that thread will see you were answered. but you did not reply to any of the answers given you. or did you sneak in the last hour to answer?? You do know your answer in threads are given a time when you answered do you not?? I hope you were not that tricky.. then again maybe I do hope you were. so people can see it.
Whats wrong man, you afraid to answer questions. Why do you keep directing people to other threads where no answer is given?
Thats alright. We know.. Thanks..
so. about love?? why you not answering?? everyone directed to that thread will see you were answered. but you did not reply to any of the answers given you. or did you sneak in the last hour to answer?? You do know your answer in threads are given a time when you answered do you not?? I hope you were not that tricky.. then again maybe I do hope you were. so people can see it.
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Zone. stop reading scofield. and other nuts who do not have it right. or misinterpreting what they believe (I don't know I have not studied them) and try to learn what it is myself and many others like me believe.
we do not believe this!
the millenium has nothing to do with the sacrificial system of moses. What is there to sacrifice. Christ is the high priest anfd king. And he already made the sacrifice.
If your gonna mock my belief, at least try to understand what it is!
EG
you got the wrong guy.
Doc aint doin' that. he's answering.
EG you preach salvation by faith alone, a permanent gift.
but what does Paul say about our condition before and as we came to be saved?
and what is he saying about God's Work? Whose work is our salvation?
ours? on any level?
what does this REALLY SAY?
Ephesians 2
By Grace Through Faith
1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
you got the wrong guy.
Doc aint doin' that. he's answering.
EG you preach salvation by faith alone, a permanent gift.
but what does Paul say about our condition before and as we came to be saved?
and what is he saying about God's Work? Whose work is our salvation?
ours? on any level?
what does this REALLY SAY?
Ephesians 2
By Grace Through Faith
1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
E
sorry Zone but he is. he directed me to a page where he was answered and he gave no response. I don't know how else to see it. No all of a sudden he says he did not see something?? Come on now sis. who do you take me for??
What does this have to do with faith? Faith is not my work unless I have faith in myself. If I am trusting completely in God, it is his work. Not mine.
It says once I was dead, Because of sin. Sin separated me from God. All men and women lived in this state. because ALL have sinned.
At one point, I, being dead to God because of my sin, Was made alive (born again) in Christ. This happened because of Gods grace (Unmerited favor, it was not earned) through my faith in him. and not because I tried to earn it by working for it.
Why was I saved. Because the penalty was removed. This came about through the redemptive work of Christ on the cross. It is a legal term called being justified. I am justified the same way Abraham was. By faith. not because of works. Abraham could have told God no. Thanks but no thanks. But Abraham freely chose to trust God, even to the point he believed God was able to raise his son from the dead. Why, Because he trusted God. And because he trusted God. He did what God asked him to (He walked in the good works God prepared for him beforehand)
What does this have to do with faith? Faith is not my work unless I have faith in myself. If I am trusting completely in God, it is his work. Not mine.
It says once I was dead, Because of sin. Sin separated me from God. All men and women lived in this state. because ALL have sinned.
At one point, I, being dead to God because of my sin, Was made alive (born again) in Christ. This happened because of Gods grace (Unmerited favor, it was not earned) through my faith in him. and not because I tried to earn it by working for it.
Why was I saved. Because the penalty was removed. This came about through the redemptive work of Christ on the cross. It is a legal term called being justified. I am justified the same way Abraham was. By faith. not because of works. Abraham could have told God no. Thanks but no thanks. But Abraham freely chose to trust God, even to the point he believed God was able to raise his son from the dead. Why, Because he trusted God. And because he trusted God. He did what God asked him to (He walked in the good works God prepared for him beforehand)
E
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well you can fight with him if you want to.
he's my best friend...i understand him. we're trying to show you something that you do not see.
and anyways, he is old enough, he can speak for himself
well you can fight with him if you want to.
he's my best friend...i understand him. we're trying to show you something that you do not see.
and anyways, he is old enough, he can speak for himself
I see quite clearly. Like I have said. I have had this same argument many many times over many many long long hours. Your not showing me anything I have not seen before.
if God did not offer me the gift of eternal life based on his work on the cross and his promise, what would I have to have faith in? there would be nothing to trust or have faith in and we would not be having this convo now would we?
so is my faith a gift? Yes. because without the gift. I could not have faith.
yes dear.
you said it did not say drag.
i showed you it did.
never once did i say it meant FORCE.
people hate calvinism - one reason is they've never bothered to find out what calvinists have expressed as Irresitable Grace. (forget TULIP generally as far as i'm concerned...i disagree with some of it)
now my proposition is that if The Creator of The Universe is drawing someone to Jesus, considering the word draw, it appears He is intent on saving that person.
Jesus Himself confirms that ALL that the Father gives Him WILL COME TO HIM.
He doesn't say some won't come to Him, He says they ALL WILL. which isn't surprising since it's God doing the drawing.
i don't read the greek, so this is the best i can do.
it certainly suggests (even just in English) that the GodHead is actively and pointedly involved in the calling and regeneration of those who are being saved. all His doing. He gets all the glory.
this is through the preaching of the Gospel. i'm not arguing for hyper-calvinism. or even for john calvin.
but what does John 6:44 really say?
John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Original Word: ἑλκύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: helkó
Phonetic Spelling: (hel-koo'-o)
Short Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade
Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.
1670 helkýō – properly, induce (draw in), focusing on the attraction-power involved with the drawing.
drag (1), dragged (2), draw (1), draws (1), drew (2), haul (1).
draw.
Or helko hel'-ko; probably akin to haireomai; to drag (literally or figuratively) -- draw. Compare helisso.
you said it did not say drag.
i showed you it did.
never once did i say it meant FORCE.
people hate calvinism - one reason is they've never bothered to find out what calvinists have expressed as Irresitable Grace. (forget TULIP generally as far as i'm concerned...i disagree with some of it)
now my proposition is that if The Creator of The Universe is drawing someone to Jesus, considering the word draw, it appears He is intent on saving that person.
Jesus Himself confirms that ALL that the Father gives Him WILL COME TO HIM.
He doesn't say some won't come to Him, He says they ALL WILL. which isn't surprising since it's God doing the drawing.
i don't read the greek, so this is the best i can do.
it certainly suggests (even just in English) that the GodHead is actively and pointedly involved in the calling and regeneration of those who are being saved. all His doing. He gets all the glory.
this is through the preaching of the Gospel. i'm not arguing for hyper-calvinism. or even for john calvin.
but what does John 6:44 really say?
John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
1670. helkó
to drag
to drag
Original Word: ἑλκύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: helkó
Phonetic Spelling: (hel-koo'-o)
Short Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade
Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.
1670 helkýō – properly, induce (draw in), focusing on the attraction-power involved with the drawing.
drag (1), dragged (2), draw (1), draws (1), drew (2), haul (1).
draw.
Or helko hel'-ko; probably akin to haireomai; to drag (literally or figuratively) -- draw. Compare helisso.
E
How can you say you understand my eschatology when you continue to say I believe stuff I don't. Your not making sense at All Zone.
When you understand omeones eschatology. You understand hwat they believe. And since I DO NOT BELIEVE God goes back to the sacrificial system. And you seem to think I do. You evidently do not understand what I believe.
then explain to me.
after the destruction of the temple. what covenant was made, and halfway through this covenant, what prince broke the covenant by comiting the abomination. And when did this occure? And don't say titus. Gabriel saied the covenant will happen after the destruction. not during it.
you want me to understand. but you can't say when this happened. I can't just ognore the word of God and say something he said quite clearly would happen will never happen.
When you understand omeones eschatology. You understand hwat they believe. And since I DO NOT BELIEVE God goes back to the sacrificial system. And you seem to think I do. You evidently do not understand what I believe.
then explain to me.
after the destruction of the temple. what covenant was made, and halfway through this covenant, what prince broke the covenant by comiting the abomination. And when did this occure? And don't say titus. Gabriel saied the covenant will happen after the destruction. not during it.
you want me to understand. but you can't say when this happened. I can't just ognore the word of God and say something he said quite clearly would happen will never happen.
Ok now I'm bashing you in the relevant thread...and awaiting your response THERE.
LINK::: Predestination
LINK::: Predestination