There will be no Rapture!!!
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I think a co text issue is had among people to quote the verses about two men in a field and two men in a bed and one being taken and the other left behind.
But how about the events in revelation that are to happen?
In chapter 11 two prophets will be in Jerusalem for 3.5 years teaching the gospel and protecting the Jews from the armies of Gog and Magog. And after those 3.5 years they will be killed by the largest army the world has ever seen.
Does the rapture happen before the prophets teach? What happened to those who listen to the prophets, do they ascend? No because Jerusalem gets captured and the armies sit for 3 days before trying to wipe out the rest of the news in the valley of Armageddon. And it is during that battle that Christ sets his foot upon the mount of olives and splits the mountain. He stops the battle. And those who are righteous. And the Saints are gathered in a cloud while the earth is cleansed of the wicked by fire. Then they co.e back down and enter into Jerusalem where Christ reigns for 1000 years. Do those that are raptured come back to earth during the resurrection and millennium? No. There isn't a rapture, there is a clear outline of what happens before the final judgement of man, there are two resurrections, one for the just and one for the u just. And that has to happen before a final judgement.
Besides if all the righteous were taken up, then who would keep trying to preach a gospel of salvation to God's children before Christ's second coming? Will God let his children be lost without doing everything he can for as long as he can to save as many who will listen?
But how about the events in revelation that are to happen?
In chapter 11 two prophets will be in Jerusalem for 3.5 years teaching the gospel and protecting the Jews from the armies of Gog and Magog. And after those 3.5 years they will be killed by the largest army the world has ever seen.
Does the rapture happen before the prophets teach? What happened to those who listen to the prophets, do they ascend? No because Jerusalem gets captured and the armies sit for 3 days before trying to wipe out the rest of the news in the valley of Armageddon. And it is during that battle that Christ sets his foot upon the mount of olives and splits the mountain. He stops the battle. And those who are righteous. And the Saints are gathered in a cloud while the earth is cleansed of the wicked by fire. Then they co.e back down and enter into Jerusalem where Christ reigns for 1000 years. Do those that are raptured come back to earth during the resurrection and millennium? No. There isn't a rapture, there is a clear outline of what happens before the final judgement of man, there are two resurrections, one for the just and one for the u just. And that has to happen before a final judgement.
Besides if all the righteous were taken up, then who would keep trying to preach a gospel of salvation to God's children before Christ's second coming? Will God let his children be lost without doing everything he can for as long as he can to save as many who will listen?
Remember Lot’s wife! Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it,
and whoever loses their life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night
two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.
Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”
“Where, Lord?” they asked.
He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.” Luke 17:32-37
Where do vultures gather for dead bodies?
That hardly sounds like the glorious Rapture!
We need the correct context for that passage.
Jesus was a teaching as a rabbi. A rabbi who was teaching Jews, according to Jewish understanding.
The Jews knew that there was to be a Kingdom on earth. One to be ruled over by the Messiah.
Jesus was not referring to the Rapture.
He was speaking to Jews in Jewish terms, according to OT thinking.
He was speaking about how all unbelievers that will be removed from the earth just before the Millennium.
Removed just before the Thousand year reign is to begin!
They will be taken up.
For up in the sky? Is where vultures gather for a dead body.
He said, dead body? That can not be speaking in reference to the Rapture.
For we will be with our glorious resurrection bodies that will never die!
grace and peace ............
Simply stated:
Everything from Revelation chapters 6 thru 22 occurs AFTER the rapture. And the prophetic focus is primarily upon ISRAEL, although innumerable gentiles also get saved.
The rapture typologically has already occurred at Rev 4:1.
BTW.....the rapture MUST, as a matter of prophetic necessity (and other reasons founded upon and expounded upon in Scripture) occur before the 7 year tribulation takes place. There is no other contingency.
Many people fail to understand this.
Everything from Revelation chapters 6 thru 22 occurs AFTER the rapture. And the prophetic focus is primarily upon ISRAEL, although innumerable gentiles also get saved.
The rapture typologically has already occurred at Rev 4:1.
BTW.....the rapture MUST, as a matter of prophetic necessity (and other reasons founded upon and expounded upon in Scripture) occur before the 7 year tribulation takes place. There is no other contingency.
Many people fail to understand this.
The three questions asked:
Mat 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us,
1)when shall these things be?
2)and what shall be the sign of thy coming,
3)and of the end of the "world" [G165 aiōn AGE (of the gentiles)]?
Pertain to:
1) ISRAEL
2) ISRAEL
3) ISRAEL
Mat 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us,
1)when shall these things be?
2)and what shall be the sign of thy coming,
3)and of the end of the "world" [G165 aiōn AGE (of the gentiles)]?
Pertain to:
1) ISRAEL
2) ISRAEL
3) ISRAEL
But the rapture isn't a biblically explai Ed teaching it's a modern concept that is only 100 years old and only pulled from verses that aren't in their full context. It doesn't doctrinally make sense when you outline events leading to the millennial rain of Christ before the final judgemental. I'm in agreement with the original post it's not a correct
^ Hi @McPhersonX... and welcome to CC,
That's not true, Paul speaks of our Rapture something like 8 or 9 times in his 2 epistles to the Thessalonians using various terms and phrases (not merely the ONE well-known, oft-quoted verse which uses the "harpazo / rapture / snatch" word used in 1Th4:17).
Check that out.
(I've also posted about that in past posts.)
Again, welcome and hope to see you around the boards! = )
That's not true, Paul speaks of our Rapture something like 8 or 9 times in his 2 epistles to the Thessalonians using various terms and phrases (not merely the ONE well-known, oft-quoted verse which uses the "harpazo / rapture / snatch" word used in 1Th4:17).
Check that out.
(I've also posted about that in past posts.)
Again, welcome and hope to see you around the boards! = )
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It did not become a rather well known teaching in an organized way until more recent times.
But, no one can really know how long ago it was recognized.
For the Scripture has remained the same as it was from its beginning, revealing the rapture since its inception...
To argue it is a new teaching should make no difference.
This topic is a difficult one, and has had a lot of debate on the subject. In the spirit of peace I'll respectfully disagree that the rapture is doctrinal, and though it would be riveting for me to discuss my personal thoughts, it would be difficult this this forum as it would be a very lengthy dissertation. Lol. But I do appreachiate your respectfulness on voicing your views on this topic thank you.
Matthew's message is particularly poignant for the Jews, and Matthew 24 is a direct address to the Jewish disciples. The 'chosen ones' or 'elect' (KJB) referred to here are the Jews who, in a powerful testament to faith and resilience, find salvation during the tribulation.
Where do you get "the Son of Adam" from? The word man is 444 ánthrōpos – man, also the generic term for "mankind"; the human race; people, including women and men. So, the Son of Adam makes no sense. Also, the words "much esteem" hardly talk of the glory of God. In fact, what translation is that? Except for the King James Bible, all other translations use the Wescott and Hort Greek text. Both of these men were occultists. Westcott and his famed partner, Hort, were among the founders of the Ghost Society in the 1850s. Fascinated by the spirit world, their club was dedicated to pursuing knowledge of ghostly encounters with spirits.
The influence of Westcott and Hort on the King James English Bible is a matter of significant concern. Their decision to discard the centuries-old Majority Text, the very foundation of the King James Bible, in favor of a text provided by the Roman Catholic Church, had far-reaching implications. This new text, often considered 'polluted ', led to the omission of many Scriptures that the pope found embarrassing. Their actions raise important questions about the integrity of the Bible's translation and the influence of external factors.
In fact what translation is that?
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Matthew 24:29-31 KJB)
Where do you get "the Son of Adam" from? The word man is 444 ánthrōpos – man, also the generic term for "mankind"; the human race; people, including women and men. So, the Son of Adam makes no sense. Also, the words "much esteem" hardly talk of the glory of God. In fact, what translation is that? Except for the King James Bible, all other translations use the Wescott and Hort Greek text. Both of these men were occultists. Westcott and his famed partner, Hort, were among the founders of the Ghost Society in the 1850s. Fascinated by the spirit world, their club was dedicated to pursuing knowledge of ghostly encounters with spirits.
The influence of Westcott and Hort on the King James English Bible is a matter of significant concern. Their decision to discard the centuries-old Majority Text, the very foundation of the King James Bible, in favor of a text provided by the Roman Catholic Church, had far-reaching implications. This new text, often considered 'polluted ', led to the omission of many Scriptures that the pope found embarrassing. Their actions raise important questions about the integrity of the Bible's translation and the influence of external factors.
In fact what translation is that?
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Matthew 24:29-31 KJB)
Keep in mind:
Church age ends with the rapture. Pertains to the Church only.
Age of the gentiles ends with the SC. Pertains to Israel only.
Saints/elect post-rapture, who come to belief during the tribulation, are NOT the Church.
They are elect Jews or gentile tribulation Saints. Both of which come to belief DURING the trib.
The great commission has ended with the rapture. No more Church members on earth, their assigned task has ended.
Israel is RE-COMMISSIONED to their ORIGINAL MANDATE to save the gentile world during the tribulation.
The Church is NOT found anywhere on earth, or noted in Scripture, nor are they preaching during the 7 year tribulation.
Church age ends with the rapture. Pertains to the Church only.
Age of the gentiles ends with the SC. Pertains to Israel only.
Saints/elect post-rapture, who come to belief during the tribulation, are NOT the Church.
They are elect Jews or gentile tribulation Saints. Both of which come to belief DURING the trib.
The great commission has ended with the rapture. No more Church members on earth, their assigned task has ended.
Israel is RE-COMMISSIONED to their ORIGINAL MANDATE to save the gentile world during the tribulation.
The Church is NOT found anywhere on earth, or noted in Scripture, nor are they preaching during the 7 year tribulation.
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While I'm new here, I appreciate your perspective. However, I'm concerned about the stress and fear that the pre-wrath or post-trib rapture teachings are causing among the brethren. This fear and misunderstanding of Scripture, particularly the distinction between the Church and the Jewish people, can lead to many other issues. It's crucial to address these misconceptions to prevent further misunderstandings.
I'm eager to learn from your perspective on the rapture's timing, if you're willing to share.
I'm eager to learn from your perspective on the rapture's timing, if you're willing to share.
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I would love to share my invites. But as I said it would be a long dissertation, if you would like you could email me at ([email protected]) remind me who you are and the topic and I will try and get you a detailed and organized viewpoint in a timely manor.
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