Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

Pilgrimshope · Thursday at 9:23 PM

absolutely not I’ve never been to a church where I thought anyone there “wasn’t saved “ or couldn’t be saved is how I would phrase is . I know that I am not the one who determines who is saved or not that’s only Jesus.

honestly I’ve never been to a pub even when I was there myself tbat I thought nonone can be saved

“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35‬ ‭

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained;
whereof this he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this can save us

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

brother some are babes all they know is what a babe knows and they will be saved that day of salvation. It’s not my place to judge anyone , in arguing that Jesus os everyone’s judges mine too

and so because of that we should all try to hear what he said will save us

I’m no body’s judge I believe anyone who doesnt turn away from thier faith in Christ will be saved……I’m just saying look at the reality of what Jesus whomis the one and o my judge said then we can are going to actually know what God said

brother I’ve never thought of it that way I think everyone can be saved if they hear the gospel and believe

PaulThomson · Thursday at 9:33 PM

Musicmaster said:

When they were under the Kingdom Gospel, yes. Separation was possible only because they were required to endure unto the end, and then they "shall" be saved. We today are not under that Gospel of the Kingdom. If we were, then we too would have to endure unto the end so that we too "shall" then be saved in the future tense rather than to be sealed by Holy Spirit.

Their salvation was a future event. Today, when one believes the Gospel of grace today, we are sealed by Holy Spirit, and therefore saved NOW, not at some future time on the basis of endurance.

What you're saying is based upon a failure to rightly divide the word of truth.

Paul said:

Ephesians 3:2-7
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

If the apostles had been preaching the same Gospel earlier on as was given to Paul, which they were not, then the dispensation of grace would not have been anything more than the idea that Gentiles were then to be included in God's salvation. Under the Gospel of the Kingdom, Gentiles had to become Jews for salvation, obeying the Mosaic Law exclusive of the animal sacrifices that were fulfilled in Christ.

The false idea of there being only one Gospel is a denial of Paul's message to us all:

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;

Two gospels, for a time, preached to different groupings, for a time, but eventually both groups saved only by the Gospel of Grace until the departure in the rapture, which will bring an end to the Gospel of Grace, and the Kingdom gospel once again in place, with those people having to endure unto the end so that they then SHALL be saved. (Matthew 24:13).

So, those who think they can harmonize both gospels are free to believe such, but they can never explain away the disharmony they bring to the word of God with such a belief. For example, there are those today who are trying to live a harmony between grace and the dispensation of Law, claiming that we today are required to obey the Mosaic Law. They too are faced with the same disharmonies they create with their doctrinal belief system. It is all true, but apply only TO those to whom they were written and applied.

All of scripture is FOR us, but not all of it is TO us today. Rightly dividing the word of truth is a matter of dividing truth from truth, not truth from falsehoods. It is all true, but it is not all TO us.

MM

I am not persuaded of a case for mid-Acts dispensarionalism, MM. Can you persuade me.

Cameron143 · Thursday at 9:50 PM

Pilgrimshope said:

And yet the Bible speaks of such people frequently. Jesus said there would be many who made much of their relationship with Him, calling Him Lord, Lord, who did many things in His name, yet were not saved. The Apostle John said there were those who appeared to be genuine Christians, yet left His fellowship because they were not saved. One would think an Apostle might know they weren't saved, but He didn't. The Apostle Paul had a fellow worker named Demas who left him after a time because he loved the world. I wonder why the Apostle didn't notice this about him before he left.

There are many reasons people attach themselves to Christ and the church that don't involve salvation. Eventually, many of them leave. This was the experience of Jesus, John, and Paul. I've witnessed this myself firsthand. You don't have to accept it,but I've shared with you 3 examples from scripture of it happening.

Musicmaster · Thursday at 10:12 PM

PaulThomson said:

Mid-Acts? I've heard of that, but never studied it in enough depth to understand all that they believe.

MM

Musicmaster · Thursday at 10:51 PM

PaulThomson said:

I have a simpler approach. I look at the scriptures for what they say. Some people allegoricalize the scriptures to death, which helps them to make it say whatever they want the various passages to say. Others go only to the literal, which makes it impossible to apply them in some instances to any meaningful understanding. There's a healthy balance the Lord gives to us through His indwelling Spirit to know and understand the difference in between.

Simply put, Jesus said this to His disciples:

Matthew 24:13-14
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Now, replacement theology wagoneers have their take on that, while others who believe the rapture will transpire with the Church suffering some, half, most or all of the tribulation, which also makes no sense and creates more problems than they answer. So, when I read scripture with an open heart to the Lord's leading, I see this as a contrast to the Kingdom Gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:1-8
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

So, there's the Mystery, the very Gospel Paul was given to preach unto the Gentiles. To try and blend the Kingdom Gospel into Paul's Gospel to the Gentiles, and one is essentially accusing Paul of not having preached ALL the Gospel of Grace; having left out all the works-based elements of repentance, water baptism, et al. That would make Paul guilty of the sin of omission, of which I have no reason to believe he is guilty. There are Paul-haters all around, especially among the Feminism Theology gangs.

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

So, either Paul was an egotistical maniac, suffering from a depth of narcissism not seen in any but the most wicked in scripture, or he was chosen by Yahshuah as the one through whom the mystery of the Gospel of Grace would be revealed.

1 Corinthians 2:7-8
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Therein is the reason it remained hidden, even from the original twelve...until Paul. Had they known that the crucifixion and the fall of the Jews into rejection would have led to the Gospel of Grace coming into being for the Gentiles, Satan would never have pushed for that crucifixion. He already had the Gentiles slated for Hell, and the outcome of the revealing of that mystery pointed to Gospel reality that ripped the souls of many billions of Gentiles from the kingdom of Satan. Brilliant plan and strategy, but there are those all around who reject that brilliance, wanting to enslave their fellow man with the mixture of truths, not all of which are TO us today.

THAT is rightly dividing the word of truth.

One either accepts it or rejects it. Some even resort to ad hominem and antagonism rather than to study to show themselves approved. They vomit scriptures with utter incoherence and disregard for the needed order of magnitude that points to the assurances we have in Christ through the power of His Blood. They swing about with utter abandon to what may be gleaned from scripture through systematic study. They pride themselves on the idea that mankind has the power to nullify the salvation assured by the Blood of Christ and the sealing of Holy Spirit. Man likes to think that he can grease the hands of Holy Spirit to that He cannot hold anyone to the assurance of the salvation through the Blood of Christ. To them, the Blood of Christ is too weak to have held anyone, even though none of them can point to them ever having lost THEIR salvation, and how that can happen. They certainly dare not point out anyone else who allegedly lost THEIR salvation, so that discussion is meaningless in the end.

So, it makes no never mind to me what others choose to believe, because we are ALL going to be held to account for what we chose to believe. We ALL have the freedom to believe lies and deceptions originating from socially engineered theologies of Westernized Christianity. The cacophony drone of voices yammering for attention, I've lost interest in trying to convince everyone, for most will believe what they want to believe, regardless of what scripture actually say.

Paul taught that mankind is justified by faith, James taught, before Paul's ministry began, that mankind is justified by works. They can't BOTH be true, but the masses sit back in their haunches, blissfully basking in the dim light of inconsistent contradictions in their own beliefs because of them trying blend truth together that were addressed to different groups of people at different times; never meant to be blended together into each other to corrupt what Paul taught of the things He was personally instructed by Christ Jesus that were not revealed to the original twelve.

Why Paul and not the others? Heck, I don't know, but we do know that the miraculous powers the original twelve worked among the people had already dwindled down to no miracles at all by the time Paul's ministry started in full force with His Gospel...the Gospel of the original twelve, but Paul's Gospel entrusted to him alone until the other twelve were fully cognizant of that Gospel that was never known before throughout all of time before.

MM

Pilgrimshope · Thursday at 11:05 PM

Cameron143 said:

brother I think you are going in really big circles trying to avoid what it just plainly says

I’m not understanding the intent of your arguments im talking about what scripture says not how we can try to avoid what it says do you believe this is true Cameron ?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you believe that’s true ? I’m not asking you to explain why we shouldn’t believe what it says or why I don’t understand …. I’m asking do you believe what Paul is saying to the church ?

“For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. It is written: “ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’ ” So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-12‬ ‭

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Do you believe what Paul’s saying ?

“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Jimbone · Friday at 8:06 AM

PaulThomson said:

How did you get the power to know the motivations behind peoples beliefs? That's an amazing power to have.

Musicmaster · Friday at 8:23 AM

PaulThomson said:

Another fact that many do not consider is that the Kingdom is not for Gentiles nor the body of Christ. I say that because scripture declares that the body of Christ will dwell in "Heavenly places."

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Some out there are bound to claim that the new earth and New Jerusalem on the new earth are in "heavenly places..."

That level of allegorical interpretation does indeed make scripture to say what they want it to say, with the scriptures made into a subjective body of writings that have no empirical and objective meaning. If they want to dwell on the new earth, then they can argue that with the Lord, but I have grave doubts that any of us who are assigned to "Heavenly places" will give one thought to arguing our dwelling upon the new earth. There's good reasons why there will be those distinctions in dwelling places, and it has everything to do with the Gospel dispensations and promises made.

MM

Jimbone · Friday at 9:00 AM

Pilgrimshope said:

How can you tell me what my "ihimosphy" is? The Spirit has show me by His word and my experience that what I'm saying lines up perfectly with His word. To tell me that I'm trying to not believe His word is a lie and insulting, not to mention presumptuous and something you could never know without me telling you that's how I feel. One might even consider it baring false witness against your neighbor.

Can you clearly answer these questions in YOUR own words to clear up the glaring problem I see in what you're teaching

Please explain how is this false gospel of "temporary, conditional salvation", not a works based heavenly probation?

How it is being saved, when we are just expected to obey good enough until we die, to "make it"?

I don't think we believe being saved is the same thing and I think we need to define what that means in this conversation.

What happens to us when we are saved in YOUR words. Not walls and walls of different sized text. Please I am very dumb with no concentration skills. Just as short and sweet as you can in your own words, please tell me what happens when we are born again.

Musicmaster · Friday at 9:34 AM

Jimbone said:

I'm not sure whom you are addressing in this post since you didn't specify, but one thing I've learned over the years is that many claim they have heard from the Spirit of the Lord on something, things that differ as vastly as night from day. So, one thing we can know for sure is that between two people making the same claim of origins for their beliefs that happen to oppose one another, either one or both are wrong since they can't BOTH be right when in opposition.

To me, that should drive both parties into prayer rather than to play the victim card of "insulting." It's simply an opportunity for both parties to go to the Source and seek Him for the answers since 1 John 2:27 makes the promise that He will make the truth known to those who seek Him.

MM

Musicmaster · Friday at 9:43 AM

Jimbone said:

Additionally, rightly dividing the word of truth keeps up who are under the Gospel of Grace from ever trying to intermix the Gospel of Grace with the Kingdom Gospel the requirement for us to persevere. That was not written TO us if one dares rightly divide the word of truth. That was written to those who are under the Kingdom Gospel.

Tell me: What does it mean to your thinking when the Spirit of the Lord inspired it to be written that upon faith in Paul's Gospel, that one is THEN sealed by Holy Spirit? Do you discern that as being a weak seal, or a strong, unbreakable seal. I ask because the scriptures give us no reason to believe that Holy Spirit is so weak that our bad works can break that sealing. If I believe that my sins can break that most powerful of seals, that's a level of human pride that simply finds no resting place in scripture so far as I can see.

Have YOU lost your salvation before? Are YOU not saved RIGHT NOW? I'm just asking because this fascinates me. I want to hear what it's like from someone who makes such a claim what it feels like to not be saved until some future point upon the power of one's own works in their lives up to that point. What manner of existence is that? Certainly it has an outflow of experience in the realm of feelings that one has to be able to describe.

What does it feel like to NOT be saved RIGHT NOW, but to be POSSIBLY saved at some future point? Doesn't it feel despondent? Isn't it a level of non-assurance that forces one almost to the point of despair, never knowing where one stands? Please let me know your thoughts on these things.

Thanks

MM

Musicmaster · Friday at 10:32 AM

Jimbone said:

In my own words...that is, if you were talking to me...it is assurance. It is an assurance based upon the perfect holding Power of the Most High. My words are inadequate in all this, that is why I post scripture for what it says.

John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
30 I and [my] Father are one.

Given that there is no power in Heaven nor earth that has the ability to snatch away even one of the house of Israel who persevered to the end from the Lord's Hand, we too can rest assured in the seal of Holy Spirit for OUR salvation that the holding Power of the Lord is just as strong toward us who are in the body of Christ.

After all, given that we are the body of Christ right now rather than at some future time on the basis of our works, the Lord will not allow any force or power to do any damage to the body that would disrupt its function for His purpose.

Those who believe otherwise, they do so on the basis of personal interpretations.

MM

Musicmaster · Friday at 11:07 AM

As further validation that the Gospel of the Kingdom is different from the Gospel of Grace:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

See that? ARE saved, not will be saved.

My friend, the verses above do not give even a hint at the idea that our salvation is a thing in the future, but that we are saved in the present, and based upon faith in Paul's Gospel, not a gospel of works that can only lead one to salvation at some future point if one's perseverance is found to be worthy of salvation.

Persevering unto the end is something written to a people under a different Gospel that is not right now active, but will be once again during the tribulation. Those people will have to persevere against the temptation of taking the mark and/or worshipping the image of the beast, and/or taking the number of his name. The body of Christ is not destined for that. Those people's salvation will only be a reality if they persevered unto the end, whether that end be their lives or the end of the tribulation. We are not under the rule of that beast in this dispensation of grace.

That seems to have a ring of unfairness in the ears of some. Well, what can anyone say to the subjective measure for fairness that resides in the minds of mere men? Mankind subjectivizes the scriptures into such a muddled mess of gobbledygook and quicksand of foundations that it all swallows so many others up so that they are choking on the air of falsehood moreso than the wondrous winds of truth.

MM

Beckworth · Friday at 11:43 AM

Musicmaster said:

As long as we have “free will” we can choose to remove ourselves from God. Otherwise, we are FORCED to be saved whether we want to or not. God wants people to be WILLING servants, not HELD AGAINST OUR WILL. The saved in the New Testanent who FELL AWAY, fell away because of their own choices, their own decisions. The “reasons” may vary but the they had a choice and were free to leave if that’s what they wanted. What you are suggesting is not what the Bible teaches.

Musicmaster · Friday at 11:51 AM

Beckworth said:

If we do an acid test for this, and look at people like Jonah, who was forced to go the Nineveh and preach to them, then that thinking falls flat. Moses also had not much of any choices set before him either.

But, let's consider what you're saying. I like it. It presses into the matter more deeply than what most people do.

Do you personally feel that your salvation, IF you understand that you are saved right now, is there something inside you that wants to "get out" from the salvation said to be absolute in scripture? Does that make you feel trapped? Are you looking for a way out, or do you see yourself looking for a way out in the future? Never mind anyone else, because none of us has any insight into the hearts of others whose words prove nothing in relation to scriptural mandates. This is directed at you personally, and what you are experiencing internally to yourself.

Do you feel trapped to hear that one's salvation is completely sealed in Holy Spirit? Does that elicit a feeling of rebellion...the taking away of your freedom? If you want to be free to earn your salvation through works, then I'm afraid that you can't, because that would render the shed Blood of Christ meaningless if we can earn our salvation on our own.

I have yet to find one verse that states our works to be supplements to the shed Blood of Christ who said, "It is finished," at the point of His physical death.

Please elaborate.

MM

Beckworth · Friday at 12:38 PM

John 15
Verse 2- “Every branch “IN ME” the branches Jesus says are IN HIM! “Every branch IN ME that does not bear fruit-“. So some people IN CHRIST are not living good lives. “Every branch (PEOPLE) IN ME (saved) that does not bear fruit (sinful) HE TAKES AWAY. AWAY FROM WHERE? Away from the vine. In verse 5 Jesus says HE IS THE VINE. He says He will take you (the branch) away.

In verse 6 Jesus says if YOU DO NOT ABIDE IN HIM- That means that YOU make the division to NOT abide in Him—He doesn’t keep you if you want to leave; proving that a person may leave God. No one else can remove you from God’s “VINE” but you can chose to leave anytime you want. God does not hold us against our will. He says you abide in me and I abide in you. As long as YOU abide in Him you will bear fruit and be His disciples verse 8. But if YOU do not abide IN HIM, He will CAST YOU OUT as a branch. And you will be BURNED in the fire. That’s Hell. This whole passage teaches that a person can choose to leave Christ and lose his salvation and will go to hell.

Now men will go to great lengths to “explain away” this teaching of Christ just to protect their false doctrine. Beware. Study closely God’s word. God did not make it hard. We can understand it if we seek the truth.

Beckworth · Friday at 12:40 PM

Musicmaster said:

If we do an acid test for this, and look at people like Jonah, who was forced to go the Nineveh and preach to them, then that thinking falls flat. Moses also had not much of any choices set before him either.

But, let's consider what you're saying. I like it. It presses into the matter more deeply than what most people do.

Do you personally feel that your salvation, IF you understand that you are saved right now, is there something inside you that wants to "get out" from the salvation said to be absolute in scripture? Does that make you feel trapped? Are you looking for a way out, or do you see yourself looking for a way out in the future? Never mind anyone else, because none of us has any insight into the hearts of others whose words prove nothing in relation to scriptural mandates. This is directed at you personally, and what you are experiencing internally to yourself.

Do you feel trapped to hear that one's salvation is completely sealed in Holy Spirit? Does that elicit a feeling of rebellion...the taking away of your freedom? If you want to be free to earn your salvation through works, then I'm afraid that you can't, because that would render the shed Blood of Christ meaningless if we can earn our salvation on our own.

I have yet to find one verse that states our works to be supplements to the shed Blood of Christ who said, "It is finished," at the point of His physical death.

Please elaborate.

MM

Musicmaster · Friday at 1:06 PM

Beckworth said:

I don't see any reason to explain it away when it's applied properly.

So, if you are a true believer, when have you never produced fruit? Never mind others whose hearts you cannot see down into. What about YOU? When were you ever truly saved and not producing fruit to the extent that He would cut you off?

This practice of so many injecting salvation into contexts where it doesn't belong, only because it seems to fit, that's problematic.

Case in point: Given that the lives of the unsaved have an effect upon all those around them, the same is true of those who are truly saved...each life having a ripple effect upon all others around them, AND a person who is truly saved will ALWAYS produce fruit.

MM

Musicmaster · Friday at 1:27 PM

Paul had personal ownership of the mystery of the Gospel of Grace that was given solely to him directly by the Lord of Glory, that which the Lord gave to no other, which also shows to us how unique it was and is to the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Anyone who believes otherwise will have to then explain how the Kingdom Gospel could possibly have been something that was a mystery from the beginnings of the world when it was preached by John the Baptist, Christ Himself and then the original twelve, and yet Paul stating that it was his Gospel. Was Paul a liar? Was he a renegade, as many Hebrew Roots and Feministic Theology followers seem to believe?

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

It's absolutely ludicrous for one to claim that Paul preached the same Gospel as that which was before.

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

This statement would make absolutely no sense if that mystery was already revealed through the original twelve apostles, and here with Paul taking ownership of it as having been revealed to and through him alone.

When reading scripture, please read not only what it DOES say, but also what it DOES NOT say in relation to one's inclinations to inject into the text what it clearly does NOT say from the basis of wishful thinking for doctrines one WANTS to be true, but actually are not supported within the text.

MM

Beckworth · Friday at 2:02 PM

No. I do not feel trapped and there is nothing in me that wants to “get out of salvation.” I am glad to be sealed with the Holy Spirit. But that has nothing to do with whether a person can FALL FROM GRACE. Galations 5:4 states specifically that YOU CAN FALL FROM GRACE.

No one said anything about earning salvation through works? What has that got to do with this discussion of CAN A PERSON LOSE THEIR SALVATION? You aren’t trying to change the subject, are you??

Jonah had a choice— He chose the right one—do what God said, or stay in the belly of the whale. That proves nothing!! Are you saying Jonah could not have refused God? Sure he could . Proverbs 1:29- They “DID NOT CHOOSE THE WAY OF THE LORD.

Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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