Question about women in the church.

[cv5]

NOWHERE does any office in any church have authority to bark orders to anyone. It's unbiblical.

That statement is absolutely ridiculous. What in the world is wrong with you?

1Ti 4:11
These things command and teach.

2Th 3:4
And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.

2Th 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2Th 3:12
Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

2Pe 3:2
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

 

[Edify]

That statement is absolutely ridiculous. What in the world is wrong with you?

1Ti 4:11
These things command and teach.

2Th 3:4
And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.

2Th 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2Th 3:12
Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

2Pe 3:2
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

To shepherd the flock as servants, yes, to manage as bosses, no.

 

[cv5]

To shepherd the flock as servants, yes, to manage as bosses, no.

So when excommunication is necessary, the Church member can ignore the command and carry on as usual?

 

[Webers.Home]

.
Here's a new word for your vocabulary: Womxn. You know what that is? It's
the latest desperate attempt by progressive women to avoid identifying
themselves with men in every way possible. I suppose they'll next revise the
spelling of their gender to look like this: femxle.

What was at the very root of the woman's fall from innocence? It was
basically her desire for equality with God (Gen 3:4-6) So the proliferation of
Eve's daughters fighting for equality should not surprise us. It's simply each
succeeding generation of fallen women handing off Eve's torch to the next.

NOTE: There is a significant difference between an apostate and an heretic.

Basically: an apostate is a defector whereas an heretic is an insurrectionist.
Apostates typically renounce their current belief system so they can leave and
affiliate with another, whereas heretics stay where they are and work to undermine
a church's leadership, and to revise its established beliefs, teachings, and doctrines.
Thus heretics are a serious threat to congregational unity and should be shunned in
accord with Titus 3:10-11.
_

 

[Mem]

Back in that day practically EVERY woman was married. If she was sane and in decent health, she would be married.
And if you were NOT married, you would literally starve and die, you were a prostitute, a leper or some other horrible state of being.
With very VERY rare exceptions. But the working classes all were married. There were no other options.

And women were married at puberty, maybe 14 year old.
So the only thing women could be was virgin, married or widowed.

How, then, do you know whether the context is speaking to maidens or wives.

 

[Edify]

So when excommunication is necessary, the Church member can ignore the command and carry on as usual?

No. the excommunication is done by the church body, not by the pastor or elders.
When the church sets them out, they are out.

 

[cv5]

No. the excommunication is done by the church body, not by the pastor or elders.
When the church sets them out, they are out.

A command is a command, regardless of office. And yes, they are orders.
And yes, Paul and Timothy gave commands.

You may want to call them something other than "orders", but they are not.

 

[Edify]

A command is a command, regardless of office. And yes, they are orders.
And yes, Paul and Timothy gave commands.

You may want to call them something other than "orders", but they are not.

You are correct, but those 'orders' come from God, not them. The Apostles spoke what they heard from Jesus like Jesus only spoke what He heard the Father speaking.
I mostly agree with you, but only by what's written above.

 

[Nehemiah6]

"Sticks and stones..........."

Your response is proof that when someone goes off they rails, they will never turn back to the truth. Hillsong Church is a mega church in Australia It seems that it has influenced you.

 

[Aussie52]

Your response is proof that when someone goes off they rails, they will never turn back to the truth. Hillsong Church is a mega church in Australia It seems that it has influenced you.

I am proud to be egalitarian. I am in good company, I Howard Marshall, Gordon Fee, Scott McKnight, Kevin Giles and Phillip B Payne to name a few.
As you do not know me, your judgement of me is hollow.
I attend a fundamentalist non-denominational church, not Hillsong for what it matters.
I have always respected you and your posts, I am a little disappointed with you now. I will hold you in my prayers.

 

[TheLearner]

I am proud to be egalitarian. I am in good company, I Howard Marshall, Gordon Fee, Scott McKnight, Kevin Giles and Phillip B Payne to name a few.
As you do not know me, your judgement of me is hollow.
I attend a fundamentalist non-denominational church, not Hillsong for what it matters.
I have always respected you and your posts, I am a little disappointed with you now. I will hold you in my prayers.

I am happy they are for equal rights.

 

[Dino246]

So when excommunication is necessary, the Church member can ignore the command and carry on as usual?

Excommunication is appropriate in very limited circumstances. Disagreement over the involvement of females in church is not among them.

 

[Derobo]

Jesus taught them, but said nowhere that the absence of female apostles means anything at all. It is foolish to make doctrine from narrative.


Perhaps you didn’t know that the Hebrew words translated ‘helper’ are used elsewhere for God Himself. Is God merely a helper, a subordinate underling? No.


It’s disgusting to me that Christians cannot address a concern without conflating it with unrelated and blatantly sinful behaviour.


We should also ask ourselves why we ignore relevant Scripture like Romans 16:1 and are content with holding on to sexist stereotypes.

So its foolish to make a doctrine from what Jesus did?
its foolish to do the same as Jesus did?
are we not to do what he did ?
its foolish to do what 1800 years of church history has done?
gotcha.

a underling? why do you assume that i or anyone think a helper is a underling?
stop assuming things no one said.
i clearly said, we have different roles and men are given leader roles, in the Household and in the church that is completely biblical and historical, thankfully majority of the church understands this.

and at least i didn't condemn anyone sinful!
i didnt do anything sinful, so the condemnation i rebuke.
and nothing is said was unrelated, i put it up clear for anyone to see and i post it again because its so true.

Either Jesus, the disciples and the 1800 years of church history is wrong or the last 200 years is wrong, i know what im betting on, and we are in the end times its expected that there are heresies left and right, you see homosexual pastors, and all kind of unbiblical things along with woman pastors today, its all and the same, ( unbiblical and unhistorical )

also regarding romans 16. you don't form a doctrine out of a single verse, if you find scripture that contradicts what you say then your doctrine stands weakly and cannot be correct.

instead we look at what the other verses say, and understand history of the region.
and we se what the church did as a general rule.
here is a bit info:
woman were known to be deaconesses to children and other women, but never to men, this takes a bit of study to understand and i encourage you to study this subject with neutrality like i did before i formed my doctrine.

God bless you my dear brother in Christ

 

[cv5]

Excommunication is appropriate in very limited circumstances. Disagreement over the involvement of females in church is not among them.

Oh I don't know about that. In fact, should you exert yourself and examine the historical record, you may find out that you are wrong.

As for me, I do not care one way or another. Women pastors are someone else's problem. Not mine.

 

[cv5]

I am proud to be egalitarian.

Well, looking at the present state of eschatological developments, you may not have much time left to marinate in your pride and egalitarianism. So enjoy while you can.

 

[Derobo]

NOWHERE does any office in any church have authority to bark orders to anyone. It's unbiblical.
So this "authority" tree some of you keep climbing is false.
In the NT, God taught with His authority that christians, the inner man, is no longer under the curse,
so OT law is out on that one.
So those wanting to debilitate women's ministry have lost their footing.
We are all NOW the sons of God according to scripture, all king-priests of His kingdom.
There are several scriptures stating men should do.... but we know that usage is for the whole church.
Apparently we haven't yet done our best to determine which ones mean 'mankind' or 'male individual'
Obviously, we need to study to show ourselves approved instead of parroting a religious denomination to show ourselves as fools.

Acts 2 repeats Joel's prophecy as God's plan for His church. No christian, regardless of sex or status, was left out.
Men, women sons, daughters, even slaves share in His ministry to the world.
Sadly, from about the late 3rd century on the RCC made ungodly false claims that this died with the Apostles.
Ever since then the church leadership won't let over half of church preach the gospel.
Some of you can deny it, but this is where it all starts.
In the NT, women & men both worked to spread the Gospel unhindered.
Now we have made new laws, bylaws, stating who can or cannot do anything.
It seems protestants are becoming more like the catholics with their own traditional bylaws carrying more weight than the Bible.
The NT says the Spirit will guide us in all things.
So ladies, pray & seek the Lord, Let Him guide & call you, & let no one else hinder you.
It's just that simple.

You seem to not understand my dear sister / brother in Christ that there are a difference between sharing the Gospel, and being a leader in the church.

we should all spread the Gospel, that Jesus died on the cross and rose again on the third day, and if you believe in him you will be saved. everyone needs to know this we all have a responsibility to do this to our friends or people we meet if we love them that is.

being a leader / pastor / minister in church or a home church or any place where there is mixed people woman, men and children is very different.
no woman has ever been this, nor will there ever be ( legally that is )
but there are lots of woman who went along and helped the apostles and the early church and God bless them for this!

 

[Artios1]

Isn't all scripture God breathed? Does it not say that in scripture?

So if it means wives and not women does that mean according to Matthew 5:28 it's wrong to lust after wives but not unmarried women?

Where in the bible does it show a woman teaching?

Isn't all scripture God breathed? ... Does it not say that in scripture? ....

Yes, to both questions.
Since you could be heading one of two directions with your questions... I will address both.

If it’s regarding 1Cor 14:34&35 ......I didn’t exclude those verses .....but I also have my reasons to question their legitimacy....
So... All scripture is God breathed ...but if it’s not scripture ... if it was added by translators ....it isn’t God breathed.

The second possibility (which I am surmising from the inflection of your second question)... does it mean... because all scripture is God breathed.... it should jump the boundaries of the context it’s addressing ...and be applicable throughout the entire Word of God.
If that is your contention (and I am not saying it is) but if that is ....how you apply biblical studies and rightly dividing of the Word ...You will be confused a lifetime.






So if it means wives and not women does that mean according to Matthew 5:28 it's wrong to lust after wives but not unmarried women?

The word (gynē) in the Bible means both woman and wife....the difference is established solely from the context.
Mat 5:28 can be determined in both 27 &28 as the word “adultery” is mentioned in both verses.




Where in the bible does it show a woman teaching?

∎Here are a few

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your “daughters” shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my “handmaidens” I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
∎The word men (anthrōpos) is collectively to all people (men and women)
These gifts include “apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.” ....The purpose of these gift ministries is to build up the Body of Christ, but how are women who have these ministries supposed to walk in the fullness of them............ if they cannot teach?


Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
∎Both had gift ministries of an apostle. And an apostles is one that goes out into the world – teaches God’s word, casts out devil spirits, raises the dead, establishes churches. The are divinely appointed founders of the church…. and bring new light to a dark nation.
Again.... tough to do if you cannot teach.



Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant diakonos = deacon of the church which is at Cenchrea:


1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 If any man (person) speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
∎The section of 1Cor 14 is in reference to the church (home fellowships)

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to US the ministry of reconciliation.
∎To reconcile others to God... is through teaching the Word.

∎Throughout the Bible..... the word brethren and men/man are used inclusively for men and women.
Sometimes man will be gender specific ....but context will determine its use.

 

[Dino246]

So its foolish to make a doctrine from what Jesus did?
its foolish to do the same as Jesus did?
are we not to do what he did ?

stop assuming things no one said.

Your words, exactly. Stop assuming. Go with what Jesus actually said and stop inventing doctrine from His actions. Jesus didn’t say that women should not be disciples. Jesus didn’t say women could not lead, or preach, or teach men. Jesus didn’t say women shouldn’t lead local fellowships of believers.

 

[Mem]

Well, looking at the present state of eschatological developments, you may not have much time left to marinate in your pride and egalitarianism. So enjoy while you can.

What if the equation of the present state of eschatological developments doesn't correlate as much with the inclusion of women in ministry as it does with the exclusion of women in ministry?
"Without vision, the people perish... (Proverbs 29:18a)."

 

[daisyseesthesun]

Paul begins his list in Ephesians 4:11 with apostles. Apostles were people sent initially by Jesus (Mark 6:7; Gal. 1:1), and later by the church (Acts 13:1–3), to pioneer a new work that facilitated the spread of the gospel. In the New Testament, several people, apart from the Twelve, are mentioned as being apostles.[3] One of these is a woman named Junia.

Junia and Andronicus (who may have been husband and wife) were members of the church in Rome. Perhaps they were founding members of the church there. Paul speaks warmly about them in Romans 16:7, mentioning that they are his relatives or fellow Jews, and that they had become Christians before he did. Andronicus and Junia had suffered persecution because of their faith and at some point had been fellow prisoners with Paul. Paul also states that Andronicus and Junia were “outstanding among the apostles.” This is a wonderful commendation coming from someone who was himself an outstanding apostle.[4]

Unfortunately, Junia’s impact as a precedent for female church leadership has been slight because many people have failed to realise that she was a woman. The feminine name “Junia” was not uncommon in antiquity, whereas the masculine name “Junias” is unheard of Nevertheless, in the 13th century, Aegidius (Giles) of Rome took her name to be masculine. After him, others also believed Junia to have been a man. This is despite the fact that several early church fathers, such as Chrysostom, Origen, and Jerome, referred to her as being both female and an apostle