SHOULD America be a Christian nation?

[TheGrungeDiva]

That was barely English, but I think you were just rattling off your personal opinions on a few political and social issues, yeah?

I agree, it was poor English, but I did agree with the jist of what Babarainbowsheep is saying, near as I could gather.

Do you think if America acted in a 'more Christian' way, then it would mean dictatorship and oppression?

But the question isn't, "should America act in a 'more Christian' way?" The question is "Should America be a Christian nation?" I'm not sure if I even know how a nation can "act in a more Christian way." Individual can, but how would a nation?

Her point was that if you force everyone to be Christian, that would be oppression and dictatorship. And I agree with that.

Also, Islam is a false religion. Not saying you should hate all Muslims, but don't be deceived. Thinking Jesus is cool is not the same thing as believing He is GOD. They are not equal beliefs.

I don't think babarainbowsheep is deceived. She was just making the point that a lot of people who claim to be Christian want to "kill all the Muslims," and that is not a "christian" value. So saying you're Christian and behaving right doesn't necessarily follow. In the same way, if this nation were just to say it was Christian, it wouldn't necessarily follow that everyone was nice to each other, any more than every person who claims to be Christian is always nice.

And yes, saying Jesus is Cool is not the same as saying He is Lord, or the Christ, or God, but that doesn't diminish it. Can't Jesus be both God and Cool?

 

[rainacorn]

I don't think babarainbowsheep is deceived. She was just making the point that a lot of people who claim to be Christian want to "kill all the Muslims," and that is not a "christian" value. So saying you're Christian and behaving right doesn't necessarily follow. In the same way, if this nation were just to say it was Christian, it wouldn't necessarily follow that everyone was nice to each other, any more than every person who claims to be Christian is always nice.

And yes, saying Jesus is Cool is not the same as saying He is Lord, or the Christ, or God, but that doesn't diminish it. Can't Jesus be both God and Cool?

Saying Jesus is less than God absolutely diminishes Him.

I'm not totally sure why you're still unclear on what I mean by America being a Christian Nation. It seems to have been hashed out pretty plainly.

 

[FSUBoy966]

Saying Jesus is less than God absolutely diminishes Him.

I'm not totally sure why you're still unclear on what I mean by America being a Christian Nation. It seems to have been hashed out pretty plainly.

At this point you're just arguing for the sake of arguing to be right.

Point is, any sane person wouldn't want to see a Christian theocracy or dictatorship b/c that is unAmerican and violates our First Amendments Rights, as well as makes Jesus's work all for nothing. If we just FORCE everyone to be Christian, why do we need His love at all? We're scared into worshiping Him.

 

[Vladimir_Ukr]

This is rhetorical question because exist only the children
of God and the children of the devil.
This is how we know who the children
of God are and who the children of the
devil are: Anyone who does not do what
is right is not a child of God; nor is
anyone who does not love his brother(1st John 3:10)
God bless you.

 

[rainacorn]

At this point you're just arguing for the sake of arguing to be right.

Point is, any sane person wouldn't want to see a Christian theocracy or dictatorship b/c that is unAmerican and violates our First Amendments Rights, as well as makes Jesus's work all for nothing. If we just FORCE everyone to be Christian, why do we need His love at all? We're scared into worshiping Him.

Yay another one who chooses not to read!

I absolutely agree with you that a theocracy or dictatorship would be wrong.

GASP!

HOW CAN THAT BE?!

Read my posts on what I think it means to be a Christian nation and you would understand. They're all in this thread.

 

[honest01]

Accepting gay sex in any society is an abomination and this destroy the society. States and nations should be very careful not to accept just an abomination.

 

[babarainbowsheep]

I agree, it was poor English, but I did agree with the jist of what Babarainbowsheep is saying, near as I could gather.



But the question isn't, "should America act in a 'more Christian' way?" The question is "Should America be a Christian nation?" I'm not sure if I even know how a nation can "act in a more Christian way." Individual can, but how would a nation?

Her point was that if you force everyone to be Christian, that would be oppression and dictatorship. And I agree with that.



I don't think babarainbowsheep is deceived. She was just making the point that a lot of people who claim to be Christian want to "kill all the Muslims," and that is not a "christian" value. So saying you're Christian and behaving right doesn't necessarily follow. In the same way, if this nation were just to say it was Christian, it wouldn't necessarily follow that everyone was nice to each other, any more than every person who claims to be Christian is always nice.

And yes, saying Jesus is Cool is not the same as saying He is Lord, or the Christ, or God, but that doesn't diminish it. Can't Jesus be both God and Cool?

Thankyou Grungediva for understanding how I ment.
Yes, my english is poor and perhaps I should read more books and improve it.
I do improve it though where I can and sometimes see spelling where I know I spell differently and change to correct way.
Room for improvement.
I have moved around a lot and not studied the english language so much.
I never usually get into discussions because of my social clumsiness and person I am and also I dont master the language , words, jigang as well as I should to hold discussions of such kind perhaps...'
Main reason is my social issues though.But on internet that does not show so much although the language does.
Anyway, God Bless and lovebomb to us

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Saying Jesus is less than God absolutely diminishes Him.

Is saying that Jesus is Cool not true? Is it saying he's less than God?

I'm not totally sure why you're still unclear on what I mean by America being a Christian Nation. It seems to have been hashed out pretty plainly.

I'm not totally sure why you think I'm unclear on what you mean. I was not speaking directly to you, but to the whole thread. And, if you've been paying attention, you'll see that different people have different ways of understanding what is meant. Just because you mean it one way doesn't mean that others who disagree with you are "unclear." It is possible that they are perfectly clear what you mean, and simply disagree.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Point is, any sane person wouldn't want to see a Christian theocracy or dictatorship b/c that is unAmerican and violates our First Amendments Rights, as well as makes Jesus's work all for nothing. If we just FORCE everyone to be Christian, why do we need His love at all? We're scared into worshiping Him.

Okay, just to play devil's advocate...

I wouldn't say that it is wrong to want to see a Christian nation / theocracy. I would say that anyone who wants to see the US become one is against the constitution and everything that this nation stands for.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing some country somewhere become a theocracy based on Christianity. Israel is sort of a theocracy, with Judaism as its basis, and, although I disagree with a lot of their policies, I think they're one of the better countries in the middle east as far as human rights and freedoms. I'd like to see if a Christian nation could do it better.

But not the US.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

Yes, my english is poor and perhaps I should read more books and improve it.

Out of curiosity (and you're welcome to not answer this question if you like), what is your native language, and how long have you been speaking English? I think a lot of people are quick to judge another person's language skills, and they forget that English is really one of the hardest languages on this planet. I have learned 7 languages, and I can tell you English is probably the worst as far as grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc.

So yes, do keep working to improve it, but don't let people bully you into not having an opinion just because you have trouble expressing it.

God bless!

 

[FSUBoy966]

Accepting gay sex in any society is an abomination and this destroy the society. States and nations should be very careful not to accept just an abomination.

That's a religion's rule. It should have no place in the United States just b/c Christianity (some groups) are against it. Human rights are above that and are not dictated by a religion in the USA.

 

[rainacorn]

Okay, just to play devil's advocate...

I wouldn't say that it is wrong to want to see a Christian nation / theocracy. I would say that anyone who wants to see the US become one is against the constitution and everything that this nation stands for.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing some country somewhere become a theocracy based on Christianity. Israel is sort of a theocracy, with Judaism as its basis, and, although I disagree with a lot of their policies, I think they're one of the better countries in the middle east as far as human rights and freedoms. I'd like to see if a Christian nation could do it better.

But not the US.

For the sake of argument, why not here?

I'm personally very much against a theocracy, but your interest in seeing it happen (JUST NOT HERE) intrigues me.

@FSUBoy- "He is before all things and by Him all things come together." Col 1:17
"Human rights" are not greater than God's laws and in fact they are entirely meaningless if they contradict God's will.

Posts like that make me feel like we're even further gone than I initially thought. The Bible says that God will give you over to your sinful desires... then a shameful heart... and eventually a depraved mind that can't even tell right from wrong anymore.

That is His wrath. It's controlled and slow-rolling.

How far along are we? Have we been given over to a depraved mind and can't tell good from evil anymore?! Are we so far gone that we think condoning and endorsing sinful lifestyles is somehow being fair and just?!

Romans 1:32 "Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

 

[FSUBoy966]

For the sake of argument, why not here?

I'm personally very much against a theocracy, but your interest in seeing it happen (JUST NOT HERE) intrigues me.

@FSUBoy- "He is before all things and by Him all things come together." Col 1:17
"Human rights" are not greater than God's laws and in fact they are entirely meaningless if they contradict God's will.

Posts like that make me feel like we're even further gone than I initially thought. The Bible says that God will give you over to your sinful desires... then a shameful heart... and eventually a depraved mind that can't even tell right from wrong anymore.

That is His wrath. It's controlled and slow-rolling.

How far along are we? Have we been given over to a depraved mind and can't tell good from evil anymore?! Are we so far gone that we think condoning and endorsing sinful lifestyles is somehow being fair and just?!

Romans 1:32 "Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

You clearly do not understand the laws America is run by. A religious doctrine CANNOT dictate law. Murder, robbing, etc is common law in all countries and are morally negative actions that hurt others. Gay marriage is not a morally negative thing outside of religion and it hurts no one. Christian doctrine cannot dictate that homosexuality should be illegal, that is unconstitutional and I thank the Lord that Americans are finally waking up and realizing that it is a human rights issue and not just another political issue. I know too many people that are affected by these hateful laws brought on by some people's ignorant definition of "morality."

 

[rainacorn]

You clearly do not understand the laws America is run by. A religious doctrine CANNOT dictate law. Murder, robbing, etc is common law in all countries and are morally negative actions that hurt others. Gay marriage is not a morally negative thing outside of religion and it hurts no one. Christian doctrine cannot dictate that homosexuality should be illegal, that is unconstitutional and I thank the Lord that Americans are finally waking up and realizing that it is a human rights issue and not just another political issue. I know too many people that are affected by these hateful laws brought on by some people's ignorant definition of "morality."

It's not that I don't understand the laws in America, I just don't put them OVER the laws of God.

Neither America nor 'popular society' can define morality. They both lack the authority.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

For the sake of argument, why not here?

I'm personally very much against a theocracy, but your interest in seeing it happen (JUST NOT HERE) intrigues me.

Because here, we have this little thing called a CONSTITUTION.

Allowing a theocracy here would mean throwing away the constitution, and that is DANGEROUS business.

There could be a country that does not have a separation clause already written into its constitution. Or, perhaps, like Israel, a new-formed country that can start from scratch.

 

[rainacorn]

Because here, we have this little thing called a CONSTITUTION.

Allowing a theocracy here would mean throwing away the constitution, and that is DANGEROUS business.

There could be a country that does not have a separation clause already written into its constitution. Or, perhaps, like Israel, a new-formed country that can start from scratch.

Why is it dangerous to throw away the constitution?

Not suggesting we do such a thing, but I'm wondering why it would be DANGEROUS.

 

[FSUBoy966]

Why is it dangerous to throw away the constitution?

Not suggesting we do such a thing, but I'm wondering why it would be DANGEROUS.

This country was founded on the guiding principles in our Constitution. It is how our Founding Fathers wanted it and we the people guide this nation in the direction that we wish it through the Constitution. Getting rid of the Constitution is literally stripping away the foundation that our country was founded on. If you destroy the foundation of a house, the house might still be visible, but it'll be destroyed and useless. Getting rid of the constitution would allow for slavery, oppression of women, religious control of this nation and executive oligarchy, all things we've experienced once before and they were terrible.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Getting rid of the constitution would allow for slavery, oppression of women, religious control of this nation and executive oligarchy, all things we've experienced once before and they were terrible.

So if governments don't say something is wrong, it's no longer wrong? It wouldn't allow for anything other than what has already been demanded of us by God.


I like our consitution. Jefferson was a wonderful intellectual. Unfortunately, many people today think the consitution is something to be read into.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

This country was founded on the guiding principles in our Constitution. It is how our Founding Fathers wanted it and we the people guide this nation in the direction that we wish it through the Constitution. Getting rid of the Constitution is literally stripping away the foundation that our country was founded on. If you destroy the foundation of a house, the house might still be visible, but it'll be destroyed and useless. Getting rid of the constitution would allow for slavery, oppression of women, religious control of this nation and executive oligarchy, all things we've experienced once before and they were terrible.

I'm going to play devil's advocate again. (Please understand ... I almost always agree 100% with the spirit of what you say, but I like to offer alternatives for open-minded thinking.)

We had the constitution for over 100 years, and there was still slavery. We've had the constitution for over 200 now, and women are still oppressed. The constitution needs constant revision, to abolish slavery, to empower women from being oppressed, and to make sure all that people who are created equal also get equal opportunities.

There's a difference between amending the constitution and throwing it out. Turning the US into a theocracy would require not just an amendment, but the tossing out of the entire document.

I think that's what you meant, but I wanted to place it in context.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Didn't make it in time to edit this into my last post, but I think we Christians in America need more persecution. We need what our Chinese brothers and sisters have.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7UyZYpeReY[/video]