The truth about the Rapture

[PennEd]

And again....

 

[Nehemiah6]

And again....

This is very well laid out. If you put it together, congratulations. If someone else did they are to be commended. Now the real issue is how come so many Christians are so confused about these two important events? My guess is that they are following the doctrines of men.

One thing which could be added is that at the Rapture Christ comes PERSONALLY for His Bride, and does not send out any angels. But at the Second Coming He sends out His angels to gather the elect believing remnant of Israel at that time.

 

[PennEd]

This is very well laid out. If you put it together, congratulations. If someone else did they are to be commended.

I've seen variations of these charts over the years. And I agree with you, that when you put the verses in a side by side comparison, between the Rapture and Jesus Second Coming, it is almost impossible to argue against.

And that is just what I googled. "What is the difference between the Rapture and Jesus' Second Coming. So it wasn't me that actually did the legwork. There's a bunch of these that slightly vary. I'm sure this one is not all inclusive as you point out.

Now the real issue is how come so many Christians are so confused about these two important events? My guess is that they are following the doctrines of men.

It's hard for some to put the whole Counsel of God's Word into context. So the confusion is understandable. Add in that many may have been taught this way, (Doctrine of men) since they were young.

I'm sure you're familiar that It's not just the NT that talks about the Rapture. The OT uses many similitudes, or patterns to show it.

Like Enoch getting Raptured before the Flood.

Or Lot being removed before the Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The cities COULD'NT be destroyed until Lot was removed.

Rahab was a type of Tribulation Saint similitude.

There was no point at all for the 2 "spies" to go to Jericho. How did their intel impact God's Plan of destruction for the city?
Their only purpose was to deliver Rahab and all those that were kept safe with her DURING the destruction of the city. Same as will happen to some of the Tribulation Saints that don't get their head chopped off by the AC.


Curious as to why so many of these anti-Rapture threads keep popping up though.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Curious as to why so many of these anti-Rapture threads keep popping up though.

Satan hates the Rapture, which is the culmination of salvation. It includes transformation, perfection, and glorification (1 John 3:1-3; Rom 8:29,30). Satan hates salvation altogether.

 

[ResidentAlien]

That's incorrect reasoning (i.e. not what it would be saying).

Rather, "the day of the Lord" [Trib] will not be present if not shall have come "the Rapture [The Departure] FIRST"

No, it's not incorrect; it makes perfect sense. It doesn't say the tribulation, it says the "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him." At the time Paul was writing, what would be the next appearing of the Lord? The rapture of course. Everyone would have understood that.

Then Paul says not to be troubled about any letter that may have said the day of Christ had already come. Some manuscripts say day of the Lord; but either way, the meaning is the same. Clearly, the "day" refers to the coming of the Lord and our gather to Him. That's the plain meaning of the text. The way you explain it actually makes no sense and twists the plain meaning of the text.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Just disregard above where I said: "No, it's not incorrect; it makes perfect sense." I agree that to say the rapture can't come unless the rapture comes first is faulty reasoning. I asked the question to simply point out the fact that apostatis in this verse doesn't mean "the rapture."

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

TheDivineWatermark said:
That's incorrect reasoning (i.e. not what it would be saying).

Rather, "the day of the Lord" [Trib] will not be present if not shall have come "the Rapture [The Departure] FIRST"

No, it's not incorrect; it makes perfect sense. It doesn't say the tribulation, it says the "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him." At the time Paul was writing, what would be the next appearing of the Lord? The rapture of course. Everyone would have understood that.

I understand what you're conveying.

I think you maybe missed what I was saying.

I'm saying that you have completely LEFT OUT the Subject of the false claim that Paul is cautioning about in verse 2 (others "[purporting] that THE DAY OF THE LORD is present / is already here [perfect indicative; transitive verb in the Grk]")... "that day" (v.3a) will not [be present], if not shall have come THE RAPTURE / THE DEPARTURE [apostasis] [verse 1's Subject] *FIRST*...




Which is exactly the point verses 1 and 2 alone (without even needing v.3's elaboration) is already saying:

--we beseech you brethren BY the fact of our Rapture
--not to be shaken in mind or ALARMED / θροέω throéō, thro-eh'-o; from θρέομαι thréomai to wail; to clamor if anyone tries to claim "THAT THE DAY OF THE LORD [TRIB] IS ALREADY HERE [PERFECT indicative; transitive verb in Grk]"... (it wasn't! and it can't!)









[v.3a's "that day" refers back to the FALSE CLAIM v.2--the HORIZONTAL Subject, not to verse 1's VERTICAL one that Paul is BRINGING TO BEAR on the "false claim" of v.2! By losing track of the GRAMMAR of this passage (and by mis-defining WHAT the false claim was about) many people CONFLATE these TWO DISTINCT ITEMS (as you are doing here)]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

about any letter that may have said the day of Christ had already come. Some manuscripts say day of the Lord; but either way, the meaning is the same. Clearly, the "day" refers to the coming of the Lord and our gather to Him. That's the plain meaning of the text.

No, the Subject of the FALSE CLAIM (v.2) is that the Day of the Lord is already here (i.e. THE TRIBULATION PERIOD--horizontal TIME PERIOD [on the earth]);

Paul had already made clear (in 1Th5:1-3) that the Thessalonians "KNOW PERFECTLY" *what* the Day of the Lord IS (and that its ARRIVAL is SUDDEN)--Today's readers DO NOT know what "the Day of the Lord" is, incorrectly believing it is SOLELY Christ's SECOND COMING to the earth (it ISN'T [isn't that ALONE]!)










It STARTS with the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:3]" that Jesus had already spoken about in His Olivet Discourse (SAME WORD, PLURAL), and those start WELL-PRIOR-TO His Second Coming to the earth in vv.29-31 (way back in vv.4-8... and which are EQUIVALENT the "SEALS" of Rev6! [the INITIAL "SEAL" being ON DAY ONE of the 7-yr period])

 

[j55]

I Cor 15:39-55 explains that we have two bodies, a flesh body (terrestrial) and a spiritual body (celestial). At the last trump (the 7th), we who are alive and remain will be changed into our spiritual body as Christ returns to earth. (I Cor 15:51-52). In I Thes 4:13-17, starting with verse 13, it tells us not to be ignorant concerning those who have fallen asleep believing in the Lord, for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again even so will God bring with him those that died believing in him. If you believe that Christ rose, you must also believe that the dead have already risen with him and not laying in some hole in the ground. Our God is the God of the living, not the dead.

It goes on to say in verses 15-17 that we who are alive and remain at the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep (because they are already there), and that the Lord will descend from heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God (the 7th or last trump), and the dead in Christ will rise first (again, already there). Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together (gathered) with them in the clouds (cloud or group of saints, not atmosphere), as Christ returns with an army of saints, and then will meet the Lord in the air. Not atmosphere but the spiritual body we are changed into at his coming. (I Cor 15:51-52)

Beware for II Thes 2:1-4 warns you that a great falling away will happen because the son of perdition (Satan) will come to earth claiming to be God and will deceive the world into worshipping him as God, because they were never taught that he comes first, before Jesus, at the 6th trump, claiming to be him. Our gathering to Christ is AFTER the appearance of Antichrist (Satan). God's elect will make the stand against Satan to expose his lies with the Holy Sprit speaking through them. (Mark 13:9-11) We don't have to fly away, Christ is coming to earth to set up his millennium temple.

Agree.
Good Job.

 

[p_rehbein]

Regarding the OP: Yes, and No.

1 Corinthians Chapter 15:

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

This is the Truth of the Rapture. As for some of your comments about His establishing His Kingdom on earth, you appear to forget what Jesus said:

John Chapter 14:

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Now, if you want to live on a new earth, well, that's fine with me. I intend to spend eternity in the mansion Jesus promised me. The main problem with this spending eternity on the new earth is that a celestial body has no need for "earthly" things. But, hey, you live where you wish.

 

[Randy4u2c]

If you have already been beheaded by the Antichrist for your faith, you will not be part of any gathering. And there is no need to make lengthy posts simply to mislead others. We need to clearly understand these things before posting. This post is definitely NOT about the "truth" of the Rapture.

How about the two witnesses of Rev 11. Although killed by Satan, they arise and are gathered at the 7th trump as Christ is returning to earth. Study to show yourself approved.

 

[studentoftheword]

The Rapture is a single Event ---Nothing has to take place for the Rapture to happen ------the Event that had to take place for the Rapture to happen as already been Dealt with -----

The event was ----Jesus had to shed His Blood -----Die on the Cross ---and be Resurrected -----and that is Finished ---He covered sin and He defeated eternal death brought on by sin ---this then paved the way for The Rapture of the Church ----

The Rapture of the Church has no event that needs to happen Now as the event has been fulfilled already ---So the Rapture can happen at any moment---it can happen today ---tomorrow ---next week --next month ---next year etc -----the Rapture is Imminent and all Saints are to be anticipating that it could happen at any moment -----

The Second Coming has to have the event of the 7 Year Tribulation happen before Jesus comes back ----so there is an event before the Second Coming happens ---

The Rapture is Imminent -----The Second Coming is not imminent -- 2 Different events -----

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

How about the two witnesses of Rev 11. Although killed by Satan, they arise and are gathered at the 7th trump as Christ is returning to earth. Study to show yourself approved.

That's not true. They ascend to heaven at the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe (not at the "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe")... see the text itself:


Rev 11:11
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13
And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14
The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.



[corroborated by...]

Rev 8:13
And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
[so... "5th Trumpet / 1st Woe"... "6th Trumpet / 2nd Woe"... "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe"]




It is after they "ascend up to heaven" that the text in chpt 11 states "the SECOND Woe is past" (associated with the "6th Trumpet" events)... and the 3rd Woe is up next on the agenda (but HADN'T TAKEN PLACE YET, at that point).
So your notion that the "2W" are gathered [rather, "ascend"--NOT are "caught up / snatched," notice] "AT THE 7th TRUMP" is not correct. Many people make this mistake.







[for the readers: Jesus doesn't "RETURN" to the earth until the "7 Vials" take place, which are subsequent to the "7 Trumpets"]

 

[Nehemiah6]

How about the two witnesses of Rev 11. Although killed by Satan, they arise and are gathered at the 7th trump as Christ is returning to earth. Study to show yourself approved.

The two witnesses are on earth during the reign of the Antichrist, while all the saints are in Heaven waiting for the Marriage of the Lamb. See Revelation 19. At the Rapture the Bridegroom Christ comes for His Bride the Church at least 7 years before the reign of the Antichrist. Thus we have the Lamb's Wife in Rev 19. The Marriage (spiritual) is followed by the Second Coming (literal).

 

[BOY]

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To 'Chat'! This "Departure [ rapture ] from
the earth" to start "The Day Of Christ" makes the most sense; good pre-trib Rightly
Divided study is here:

God's Great GRACE Departure!

Amen.

How did you get (Rapture??) I got

abandonment of one's religious faith, party, a cause, etc. Word origin. C14: from Church Latin apostasia, from Greek apostasis desertion, from apostanai to stand apart from, desert.

 

[BOY]

Forget about the Tribulation. Everyone in the Church would have been beheaded by the Antichrist during the Tribulation/Great Tribulation. You either take the Mark or lose your head.
I have already dealt with this. So that is an absurd notion.

Evidently you need to study both the Rapture and the Second Coming properly. They are DEFINITELY NOT the same event. That too would be absurd.

If the Church saints are RISING to Heaven at the Second Coming then who is Christ bringing with Him from Heaven? And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (Rev 19:14). Who are within these "armies"? Those who are dressed in linen, white, and clean. And that can only apply to the redeemed saints.

So according to your notion the raptured saints will be immediately doing an about face for the Second Coming. But here's the catch. The Marriage of the Lamb has just taken place when all the saints were in Heaven. So you have a phantom Rapture at the Second Coming. Give it up.

Not everyone loses their head in the tribulation "we which are alive" and remain shall be caught up together with them in the "clouds" to meet the Lord in the air.

Showing that some will still be alive.

plus the woman in Revelation12 flees into the wilderness where she has a place prepared for her.
and some of the woman get helped by the world. and some of the woman doesn't.

Rev 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

So not all of us will lose our heads I hope to be one that remains alive till he comes

 

[BOY]

I just thought I would post this as I just read somewhere but I can't find it now, that the two end time witnesses I raised on the 6th trumpet

Sorry that's not true he was right, it's the seventh trumpet

Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

The six Angel sounded in chapter 9 in chapter 10 it begins talking about the 7th trumpet and in chapter 11 it sounds


Rev10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev11:15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[BOY]

The two witnesses are on earth during the reign of the Antichrist, while all the saints are in Heaven waiting for the Marriage of the Lamb. See Revelation 19. At the Rapture the Bridegroom Christ comes for His Bride the Church at least 7 years before the reign of the Antichrist. Thus we have the Lamb's Wife in Rev 19. The Marriage (spiritual) is followed by the Second Coming (literal).

hello could you tell me where it says we're in heaven for 7 years while everybody else is down here thank you

 

[BOY]

They are one and the same event which happens after the great tribulation. We've been through this song and dance before so I'm not going to argue with you because that would be a waste of time.

When the antichrist is revealed and you're still here, remember that Jesus said to endure to the end. You can do that with the help of the Holy Spirit. This is important because when all this happens, Jesus said it will be the very worst time in history. Without clinging to God and learning to endure to the end, a Christian can fall away and be part of the great apostasy.

I don't know when the great tribulation starts, but I think it might happen sooner than 18 years being predicted in the other thread. So please everyone be ready for this spiritually.


🍰

2ndTimeIsTheCharm A great place to sharpen your sword. God Bless

 

[DavyP]

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The word for falling away is apostatis and can also mean a departure from a standing (this might also mean rapture).

Hardly.

The context of that 2 Thess.2 Scripture regarding Greek apostasia is involving the coming of the "man of sin" exalting himself in place of God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped. Apostle Paul even calls that event the "strong delusion" later in that Chapter.

That makes it IMPOSSIBLE for that apostasia to be about a rapture to Christ Jesus.

It's amazing how you brethren on man's false pre-trib rapture theory will try and squeeze in your false rapture theory into Scripture like 2 Thess.2, just so you can 'create' excuses to believe a lie.