Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
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I agree that the work of the Spirit must be first. As a well known writer once stated:
Please remember that the first Adam was created as very good. He had a very close relationship with his maker and was provided something that we no longer posses, (both the ability and liberty to choose either good or evil).
The Bible clearly and consistently teaches (1) man is free to do good or evil, that he is at liberty to do either, but (2) that he is able to do only evil because of his fallen condition. The will cannot escape the moral character out of which it comes. If the soul is entirely corrupt so that its knowledge and desire are defective and rotten, it follows that it will ever will to do that which is evil.
The ability to do good was lost with the fall of Adam. Now “every imagination of the thoughts of his heart are only evil” (Gen 6:5). He is able to do good only as he is regenerated in order that he may again possess the good heart and will and to do God’s good pleasure (Eph 2:1, John 3:3, Phil 2:13).
Yet his ability is not identical with that which Adam originally had. The regenerate man is not yet able to do God's will perfectly. He does truly delight in the will of God. He does persist in the way of righteousness. Sin cannot prevail in him as it formally did. But sin is present with him (Rom 7:21). The reason for this is that we are in the process of being made holy.
Please remember that the first Adam was created as very good. He had a very close relationship with his maker and was provided something that we no longer posses, (both the ability and liberty to choose either good or evil).
The Bible clearly and consistently teaches (1) man is free to do good or evil, that he is at liberty to do either, but (2) that he is able to do only evil because of his fallen condition. The will cannot escape the moral character out of which it comes. If the soul is entirely corrupt so that its knowledge and desire are defective and rotten, it follows that it will ever will to do that which is evil.
The ability to do good was lost with the fall of Adam. Now “every imagination of the thoughts of his heart are only evil” (Gen 6:5). He is able to do good only as he is regenerated in order that he may again possess the good heart and will and to do God’s good pleasure (Eph 2:1, John 3:3, Phil 2:13).
Yet his ability is not identical with that which Adam originally had. The regenerate man is not yet able to do God's will perfectly. He does truly delight in the will of God. He does persist in the way of righteousness. Sin cannot prevail in him as it formally did. But sin is present with him (Rom 7:21). The reason for this is that we are in the process of being made holy.
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Matthew 13:58
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Matthew 17:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Mark 6:6
And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
Mark 9:24
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Mark 16:14
Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbeliefand hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
Romans 3:3
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Romans 4:20
he staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Romans 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Romans 11:23
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Romans 11:30
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Romans 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
1 Timothy 1:13
who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did itignorantly in unbelief.
Hebrews 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Hebrews 3:19
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Hebrews 4:6
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:11
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Matthew 17:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Mark 6:6
And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
Mark 9:24
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Mark 16:14
Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbeliefand hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
Romans 3:3
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Romans 4:20
he staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Romans 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Romans 11:23
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Romans 11:30
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Romans 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
1 Timothy 1:13
who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did itignorantly in unbelief.
Hebrews 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Hebrews 3:19
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Hebrews 4:6
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:11
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Unbelief of the unregenerate stems from the arrogant rejection of God's drawing of a man.
Which leads to apathy towards those who accepted God's drawing.
Now... that is the unbelief of those who reject salvation.
Unbelief hardens over time and won't know the real you standing there.
They can only see your body, but they see not the soul.
There is also unbeliever of the regenetate type.
They set limits with God and how much God is to manifest in their thinking and actions.
They find their "God limiter" according to what inaccurate doctrine they find an affinity for.
We know unbelief also applies to the believer. We can know by the fact of the verses
you cited to warn the regenerate not to fall into unbelief.
What I was trying to get at was this.
We need to get away from pat answers and to delve into the attitude of an unbeliever possesses.
And.. why one rejects sound doctrine and clings to their pet false doctrines.
It's easy to not define, and simply cite verses that serve a purpose of settling an issue as a command only,
but, without understanding.
We have been commanded to get understanding to be added to our knowledge of the Word.
Knowledge of the Word is only step One.
Some only want knowledge of verses as a means to remain robotically obedient...
They know they should smile and be nice.. And, that's about all.
Where's the life Jesus wants us to have?
That only comes from when gaining understanding.
Not simply repeating verses that have yet to be analyzed by someone with the gift and be understood.
Its understanding that he fights them from gaining.
You can have a million Bible verses memorized, yet have no understanding.
And, think you are a great Christian (in a humble sort of way, of course).
So be it... Grace and peace.
Which leads to apathy towards those who accepted God's drawing.
Now... that is the unbelief of those who reject salvation.
Unbelief hardens over time and won't know the real you standing there.
They can only see your body, but they see not the soul.
There is also unbeliever of the regenetate type.
They set limits with God and how much God is to manifest in their thinking and actions.
They find their "God limiter" according to what inaccurate doctrine they find an affinity for.
We know unbelief also applies to the believer. We can know by the fact of the verses
you cited to warn the regenerate not to fall into unbelief.
What I was trying to get at was this.
We need to get away from pat answers and to delve into the attitude of an unbeliever possesses.
And.. why one rejects sound doctrine and clings to their pet false doctrines.
It's easy to not define, and simply cite verses that serve a purpose of settling an issue as a command only,
but, without understanding.
Proverbs 4:7
The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom.
Though it cost all you have, get understanding.
We have been commanded to get understanding to be added to our knowledge of the Word.
Knowledge of the Word is only step One.
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Some only want knowledge of verses as a means to remain robotically obedient...
They know they should smile and be nice.. And, that's about all.
Where's the life Jesus wants us to have?
That only comes from when gaining understanding.
Not simply repeating verses that have yet to be analyzed by someone with the gift and be understood.
John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy;
I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
Satan must let Christians cite Bible verses. He can't avoid it. Its understanding that he fights them from gaining.
You can have a million Bible verses memorized, yet have no understanding.
And, think you are a great Christian (in a humble sort of way, of course).
So be it... Grace and peace.
Good question...
The punishment for man's sin was to be forsaken by God.
Jesus was forsaken by God in our place while bearing our sins.
Men go to Hell to be punished, not for their sins, but for their rejection of God Himself...
Which is reflected in their rejection of Christ (who is God visibly presented to man).
Ironically, their punishment will be the punishment designed by God for Satan.
They chose Satan over God? They can be with their god forever then.
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed,
The new question is (and may need to be a new thread)...
Why was Fire specifically to be the punishment for Satan and his angels?
grace and peace ...........
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only
for ours, but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2
The punishment for man's sin was to be forsaken by God.
Jesus was forsaken by God in our place while bearing our sins.
About three in the afternoon, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”). Matthew 27:46
Men go to Hell to be punished, not for their sins, but for their rejection of God Himself...
Which is reflected in their rejection of Christ (who is God visibly presented to man).
Ironically, their punishment will be the punishment designed by God for Satan.
They chose Satan over God? They can be with their god forever then.
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed,
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41
The new question is (and may need to be a new thread)...
Why was Fire specifically to be the punishment for Satan and his angels?
grace and peace ...........
Good point. so, I asked Jesus how to respond.
The Holy Spirit immediately pointed me to -
Matt. 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven to men.
32 And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
And -
John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
23 He that hates me hates my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this comes to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me:
All sins are forgiven by the atonement except one. Refusing to believe the testimony the Holy Spirit gives and makes clear about Jesus is the unforgivable sin. ALL other sins are passed over.
The Holy Spirit immediately pointed me to -
Matt. 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven to men.
32 And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
And -
John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
23 He that hates me hates my Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25 But this comes to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me:
All sins are forgiven by the atonement except one. Refusing to believe the testimony the Holy Spirit gives and makes clear about Jesus is the unforgivable sin. ALL other sins are passed over.
Make sense out of that, please? "I believe God punishes sin, not evil. My reasoning is that our sins were laid upon Jesus, and not evil."
And? What has that got to do with Hell with the unbeliever?
He disciplines us when we walk in sin.
Because He wants us to use 1 John 1:9 and get back in fellowship.
If we refuse his discipline to correct us?
Believers will suffer the sin unto death.
1 John 5:16
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death,
you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin
does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying
that you should pray about that.
As for the unbelievers who sin all the time?
The unbelievers are left alone by God for the most part.
God does not punish sin in their case...
You are always righteous, Lord,
when I bring a case before you.
Yet, I would speak with you about your justice:
Why does the way of the wicked prosper?
Why do all the faithless live at ease?
And? What has that got to do with Hell with the unbeliever?
He disciplines us when we walk in sin.
Because He wants us to use 1 John 1:9 and get back in fellowship.
If we refuse his discipline to correct us?
Believers will suffer the sin unto death.
1 John 5:16
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death,
you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin
does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying
that you should pray about that.
As for the unbelievers who sin all the time?
The unbelievers are left alone by God for the most part.
God does not punish sin in their case...
“Why do the wicked prosper, growing old and powerful?
They live to see their children grow up and settle down,
and they enjoy their grandchildren. Their homes are safe
from every fear, and God does not punish them." Job 21:7-17
You are always righteous, Lord,
when I bring a case before you.
Yet, I would speak with you about your justice:
Why does the way of the wicked prosper?
Why do all the faithless live at ease?
Jeremiah 12:1
But according to Calvinism, God"s so-called "prescriptive will" is not God"s real will for those to whom He commanded it. According to Calvinism, God"s real will is whatever actually happens. So, the sins people commit that offend against God's so-called "prescriptive will" commanded to them are God's real will for them, according to Calvinism.
Jesus does not say "attributing the works of Jesus to Satan, and not the Holy Spirit" is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. You are inferring that, not reading that.
If you are right, there are almost no cessationists in heaven.
I infer that they were rejecting the clear testimony of the Holy Spirit to them that Jesus was sent by God. They realised that all the evidence of the words and deeds of Jesus, inspired and empowered by the Holy Spirit, were affirming Him to be Messiah sent from God, but they were refusing to believe. Accusing Him of doing miracles by satan was their manufactured excuse, their post hoc rationalisation for refusing to believe the Holy Spirit"s testimony. It was a symptom of their underlying sin of unbelief.
If you are right, there are almost no cessationists in heaven.
I infer that they were rejecting the clear testimony of the Holy Spirit to them that Jesus was sent by God. They realised that all the evidence of the words and deeds of Jesus, inspired and empowered by the Holy Spirit, were affirming Him to be Messiah sent from God, but they were refusing to believe. Accusing Him of doing miracles by satan was their manufactured excuse, their post hoc rationalisation for refusing to believe the Holy Spirit"s testimony. It was a symptom of their underlying sin of unbelief.
Not only to believe...
John was saying to 'believe,' and to also do something with it!
And what else besides just believing? We are to love one another as Jesus loved his disciples.
We are commanded to love one another as He loved the disciples! (John was one of the disciples).
Now.... When Jesus confronted Peter? And called him "Satan?" Jesus was loving Peter!
Jesus did not spare Peter's feelings because, in love, he wanted Peter to stop thinking in terms of human goodness,
and to start seeing God's viewpoint. Jesus was showing Peter that what we call human goodness can be the Devil's way of thinking!
In human terms, Peter was expressing a high and noble sentiment towards Jesus! But, it was Satan's thinking.
Warning: Loving others as Jesus loved his disciples might make you unpopular with believers who habitually live according to their own human goodness.
Taking up our cross is humbly (sometimes painfully) sucking it up when the Lord's Word rebukes us.
Especially, when we thought we were doing a good thing and had others agreeing with us.
For God wants to strip away from us what insulates us from knowing His mind and His happiness.
It's all the process of transformation, that when accepted, will allow it to take place in our own life...
It's one reason why the flesh is hostile to the Spirit.
And, we will be in for some shocks when we find something presented with accuracy what the Word tells actually us.
It's nothing personal....
John was saying to 'believe,' and to also do something with it!
1 John 3:21-24
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God
and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do
what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love
one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him,
and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit
he gave us.
And what else besides just believing? We are to love one another as Jesus loved his disciples.
We are commanded to love one another as He loved the disciples! (John was one of the disciples).
Now.... When Jesus confronted Peter? And called him "Satan?" Jesus was loving Peter!
Jesus did not spare Peter's feelings because, in love, he wanted Peter to stop thinking in terms of human goodness,
and to start seeing God's viewpoint. Jesus was showing Peter that what we call human goodness can be the Devil's way of thinking!
In human terms, Peter was expressing a high and noble sentiment towards Jesus! But, it was Satan's thinking.
Warning: Loving others as Jesus loved his disciples might make you unpopular with believers who habitually live according to their own human goodness.
Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”
Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have
Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have
in mind the concerns of God, but about things that people think are important.”
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me." Matthew 16:22-24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me." Matthew 16:22-24
Taking up our cross is humbly (sometimes painfully) sucking it up when the Lord's Word rebukes us.
Especially, when we thought we were doing a good thing and had others agreeing with us.
For God wants to strip away from us what insulates us from knowing His mind and His happiness.
It's all the process of transformation, that when accepted, will allow it to take place in our own life...
It's one reason why the flesh is hostile to the Spirit.
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. Galatians 5:17
And, we will be in for some shocks when we find something presented with accuracy what the Word tells actually us.
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD." Isaiah 55:8
It's nothing personal....
The punishment is for their unbelief. One sin. Not their "sins."
For Jesus paid for their sins.
They are joining Satan in what was originally created for Satan and his angels.
If man was never created?
Fire would still be the punishment for Satan because of his implacable resentment towards God
The fire was not created for man's punishment.
Hell is what happens to man when a man joins Satan's companionship.
For Jesus paid for their sins.
They are joining Satan in what was originally created for Satan and his angels.
If man was never created?
Fire would still be the punishment for Satan because of his implacable resentment towards God
The fire was not created for man's punishment.
Hell is what happens to man when a man joins Satan's companionship.
All that is fine, but people know what love is. Peter was assured of Jesus' love for him. For someone who has no relationship, much of what people are attempting to pass as love is anything but, despite what someone says. No one ever had to tell me they were loving me, even when a loving act proved hurtful.
And having belief come with a purpose is nothing new; Paul said as much...Ephesians 2:10. That doesn't negate the commandment to believe.
And having belief come with a purpose is nothing new; Paul said as much...Ephesians 2:10. That doesn't negate the commandment to believe.
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