The rapture? The comimg of Christ.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Stokie

New member
Aug 2, 2024
22
6
3
There will be many who turn to Christ during the tribulation period ( the tribulation saints in Revelation ). The Holy Spirit must still be active drawing people to Jesus during that time so it cant be the Holy Spirit… unless it’s referring to the Holy Spirit within each and every believer ? Now, what if all those people were taken out of the way and their prayers for peace suddenly stopped ? What if the Church suddenly vanished…
 

Saul-to-Paul

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2017
403
71
28
There will be many who turn to Christ during the tribulation period ( the tribulation saints in Revelation ). The Holy Spirit must still be active drawing people to Jesus during that time so it cant be the Holy Spirit… unless it’s referring to the Holy Spirit within each and every believer ? Now, what if all those people were taken out of the way and their prayers for peace suddenly stopped ? What if the Church suddenly vanished…
Revelation 11:3,4 KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Psalm 52:8 KJV
8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.


Two candlesticks are the two churches that did not offend God in Revelation.

Revelation 11:7 KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


The two witnesses testimony are killed in the house of God/ external church. Extinguishing their ability to save people through the Holy Spirit.

Holy Sprit has been removed from the house of God. Salvation continues outside the external churches.
 
Oct 15, 2024
149
46
28
Hallelujah Father You are justified in how You deal with the oppressors you have given man so much time but he can't rule himself it corrupts him and no You are not a tyrant you gave man thousands of years to try do his own thing but now he has gotten himself in such a mess he needs help for the peril he is in is great and he is touching things that he shouldn't, rebuke him You are justified
 
Oct 15, 2024
149
46
28
Revelation 11:3,4 KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Psalm 52:8 KJV
8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.


Two candlesticks are the two churches that did not offend God in Revelation.

Revelation 11:7 KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


The two witnesses testimony are killed in the house of God/ external church. Extinguishing their ability to save people through the Holy Spirit.

Holy Sprit has been removed from the house of God. Salvation continues outside the external churches.
a.i will first be declared sentient then it will be called god then it will be worship or die
 
Oct 15, 2024
149
46
28
Revelation 11:3,4 KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Psalm 52:8 KJV
8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.


Two candlesticks are the two churches that did not offend God in Revelation.

Revelation 11:7 KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


The two witnesses testimony are killed in the house of God/ external church. Extinguishing their ability to save people through the Holy Spirit.

Holy Sprit has been removed from the house of God. Salvation continues outside the external churches.
House of God is not on earth yet but it's on its way, Hallelujah!!!
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,549
8,105
113
There will be many who turn to Christ during the tribulation period ( the tribulation saints in Revelation ). The Holy Spirit must still be active drawing people to Jesus during that time so it cant be the Holy Spirit… unless it’s referring to the Holy Spirit within each and every believer ? Now, what if all those people were taken out of the way and their prayers for peace suddenly stopped ? What if the Church suddenly vanished…
The Holy Spirit simply unwinds/limits/relaxes His restraining mandate, which results in evil coming to the fore. He certainly does not leave the scene entirely. This same phenomenon has happened many MANY times in Israel's history.

Lam 2:3
He hath cut off in his fierce anger all the horn of Israel: he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy, and he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
735
267
63
The Holy Spirit simply unwinds/limits/relaxes His restraining mandate, which results in evil coming to the fore. He certainly does not leave the scene entirely. This same phenomenon has happened many MANY times in Israel's history.

Lam 2:3
He hath cut off in his fierce anger all the horn of Israel: he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy, and he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about.
The Lord goes back to dealing with Israel the way He dealt with them in their dispensation. The Holy Spirit is among them. He can and does draw back, leave them to their own devices or removes Himself from them. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a church age blessing.

I know you know this, this truth drives the replacement folks nuts!

PSALM 51:11

Cast me not away from Thy presence, and take not Thy holy Spirit from me.

The Church NEVER has to pray this prayer.
 

Saul-to-Paul

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2017
403
71
28
House of God is not on earth yet but it's on its way, Hallelujah!!!
There is also an external house of God that's on the earth.

1 Peter 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 4:17
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


Matthew 24:2
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one
stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,799
1,181
113
Australia
With all respect. I don't think anybody believes that anymore. oh I don't think many people believe that anymore. we've moved on God as showed us more. things have opened up more since that old story.
maybe God revealed the truth and the devil has courupted it to confuse and lead people away from the light.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,549
8,105
113
There may well be a 7 year time of trouble but what you are doing is making these verses fit your interpretation.

When did the sacrifices cease? When did the offering of lambs become obsolete?

At the cross. They were made desolate by the real deal. Jesus is the sacrifice we need to look to. The cerimonial offerings all pointed to Jesus.

Dan 9: 27

Right in the middle of the 70th week Jesus died and brought all of the sacrifices to an end.

The 3 and a half years and 42 months, and times time and dividing of time are the same time period in prophecy.

That time has come and gone.....

Eze 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Num 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

It is a known truth that a day = a year in bible prophecy. It is applied to the 70 week prophecy, and when you apply it to the 3and a half year prophecy it = 1260 years.

Be consistent. Half a week = 3.5 years
Some 3.5 years = 1260 years
A day for a year.

Dan 7:25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

It is easy to find a time in history when the church of God, was persecuted and went to the mountains to hide for 1260 years. It's called the dark ages. Millions of believers were killed because they didn't follow the blasphemies of catholicism.

538-1798.....1260 years.
Pope Vigilius is the first pope with unquestioned loyalty to Justinian and his new code, which in 538 becomes meaningfully effective for the first time. Church controlled the state.

There is a clear and parallel symmetry in the 1,260-year period starting with a pope being exiled and replaced with one hand-picked by the emperor under the auspices of a new legal code (the Justinian Code—one that elevates the Roman church to official, legal priority), and ending with a pope being exiled by an emperor and a religious code replaced by a secular rule (the Napoleonic Code, a secular system that rejects the idea of a special place for the church).
Napoleon took the pope captive in 1798. And the church lost its authoritative power over most people.

3.5 years have been prophesied and have happened.
This opinion of yours is pretty much irreverent irrational nuttery.
Because you see the ENTIRE 70 WEEKS is specific ONLY for ISRAEL and Jerusalem.

Only the heretic nutters think that the Church is the focus of this prophecy.
 

Stokie

New member
Aug 2, 2024
22
6
3
This opinion of yours is pretty much irreverent irrational nuttery.
Because you see the ENTIRE 70 WEEKS is specific ONLY for ISRAEL and Jerusalem.

Only the heretic nutters think that the Church is the focus of this prophecy.
exactly. The entire 70 weeks is all about Israel, to make Israel see that Jesus was and is the one they were waiting for.

It’s known as the time of Jacob’s trouble for a reason. It’s not the time of the church’s trouble it’s Jacob’s (Israel).
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,799
1,181
113
Australia
This opinion of yours is pretty much irreverent irrational nuttery.
Because you see the ENTIRE 70 WEEKS is specific ONLY for ISRAEL and Jerusalem.

Only the heretic nutters think that the Church is the focus of this prophecy.
Show me where does the bible say there is a gap of 2000 years between the 69th and 70th week?

This prophecy was for Israel to accept Jesus. They didn't.

Dan 9:24-27 KJV 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

70 weeks for Israel to do the listed things above and Israel failed.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

69 weeks into this prophecy and Jesus started His ministry Matt 3:15-17

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

For 3 and a half years Jesus preached and His death maked the end of the sacrifical system. He told the deciples to preach to the Jews first. They still had 3 and a half years to accept Jesus.

Why put a 2000 year gap when this fits perfectly .
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,799
1,181
113
Australia
exactly. The entire 70 weeks is all about Israel, to make Israel see that Jesus was and is the one they were waiting for.

It’s known as the time of Jacob’s trouble for a reason. It’s not the time of the church’s trouble it’s Jacob’s (Israel).
Is there a difference between literal and spiritual Israel in God's eyes?

Gal 3:27-29
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Roms 9 and the wild olive branches
Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It's about your heart not your DNA.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,549
8,105
113
exactly. The entire 70 weeks is all about Israel, to make Israel see that Jesus was and is the one they were waiting for.

It’s known as the time of Jacob’s trouble for a reason. It’s not the time of the church’s trouble it’s Jacob’s (Israel).
Correct of course. And the thing is.....every verse, passage, chapter and book declare and support this reality. One way or another.
Nobody in a right state of heart and mind can deny it.

Furthermore, God's eternal LOVE FOR ISRAEL is perhaps the greatest theme in all the Bible.
Even God's chastisement upon them is LOVE. His longsuffering is LOVE. His patience is LOVE.

And soon, the Sons of Jacob will weep with joy and rejoice in the LOVING embrace of their God. And we shall rejoice with them.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,874
2,111
113
Show me where does the bible say there is a gap of 2000 years between the 69th and 70th week?

This prophecy was for Israel to accept Jesus. They didn't.
I will attempt to (and have been attempting to... in numerous past posts). :)

Dan 9:24-27 KJV 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

70 weeks for Israel to do the listed things above and Israel failed.
Let's consider the pertinent texts, and see...

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

69 weeks into this prophecy and Jesus started His ministry Matt 3:15-17
Is that really the point in time that the "69 Weeks" was concluded, though?


Matthew 3:13 (just before your verses) states, "Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the JORDAN unto John [-the Baptist]..."

(that's not quite TO "Jerusalem" [which this time-prophecy SPECIFIES] which was yet FURTHER from that area)
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
For 3 and a half years Jesus preached and His death maked the end of the sacrifical system.
Did you see what you just did there?



The text is written SEQUENTIALLY.



He was "CUT OFF" (it says) "AFTER the 69 Weeks [were concluded]"... but you said differently.

See that?

He told the deciples to preach to the Jews first. They still had 3 and a half years to accept Jesus.

Why put a 2000 year gap when this fits perfectly .
What *you* said does not "fit perfectly" though.










[and that's just the tip of the iceberg... Parts of verse 24--the LISTING of items--note how "Romans 11:27=Isaiah27:9,12-13 "GREAT trumpet"=Matthew24:29-31 "GREAT trumpet" (re: His Second Coming TO THE EARTH, yet "future"--Rev19!!--And Rev19:16 / 17:14 further "connects" with the "FUTURE" tense of 1Tim6:15!)]
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,549
8,105
113
Show me where does the bible say there is a gap of 2000 years between the 69th and 70th week?

This prophecy was for Israel to accept Jesus. They didn't.

Dan 9:24-27 KJV 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

70 weeks for Israel to do the listed things above and Israel failed.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

69 weeks into this prophecy and Jesus started His ministry Matt 3:15-17

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

For 3 and a half years Jesus preached and His death maked the end of the sacrifical system. He told the deciples to preach to the Jews first. They still had 3 and a half years to accept Jesus.

Why put a 2000 year gap when this fits perfectly .
Evidently, as far as you are concerned,
3-1/2 years = 7 years.

So as regards your take on eschatology, anything goes I guess.
Same goes for that nuttery you posted about 1260 years and some Pope or other and his shenanigans.

Pro-tip: the 70th week of years is when the Jews DO accept Jesus who SAVES THEM. You know.....at the "time of Jacobs trouble"? Ever head of it? Which is of course the reason for the 2000 year (and still running) gap. Because that has not happened yet.

And evidently, @GaryA @Moses_Young @TabinRivCA @HeIsHere refuse to recognize that at this "TIME", the Jews will be SAVED OUT OF IT! Not doomed. Not wiped out. Not exterminated.

Jer 30:7
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Dan 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people (Israelites): and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

==================================================================================

And another Pro-tip:
This GAP is specified right here.

Rom 11:25
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
13,039
10,600
113
Evidently, as far as you are concerned,
3-1/2 years = 7 years.

So as regards your take on eschatology, anything goes I guess.
Same goes for that nuttery you posted about 1260 years and some Pope or other and his shenanigans.

Pro-tip: the 70th week of years is when the Jews DO accept Jesus who SAVES THEM. You know.....at the "time of Jacobs trouble"? Ever head of it? Which is of course the reason for the 2000 year (and still running) gap. Because that has not happened yet.

And evidently, @GaryA @Moses_Young @TabinRivCA @HeIsHere refuse to recognize that at this "TIME", the Jews will be SAVED OUT OF IT! Not doomed. Not wiped out. Not exterminated.

Jer 30:7
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Dan 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people (Israelites): and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

==================================================================================

And another Pro-tip:
This GAP is specified right here.

Rom 11:25
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
What makes you connect me with these other brothers and sister in Christ in above post re this Thread ??? Please explain.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,793
4,297
113
mywebsite.us
Pro-tip: the 70th week of years is when the Jews DO accept Jesus who SAVES THEM. You know.....at the "time of Jacobs trouble"? Ever head of it? Which is of course the reason for the 2000 year (and still running) gap. Because that has not happened yet.

And evidently, @GaryA @Moses_Young @TabinRivCA @HeIsHere refuse to recognize that at this "TIME", the Jews will be SAVED OUT OF IT! Not doomed. Not wiped out. Not exterminated.

Jer 30:7
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Dan 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people (Israelites): and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

==================================================================================

And another Pro-tip:
This GAP is specified right here.

Rom 11:25
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
I believe you are speaking falsely about/against four of your brothers and sisters in Christ - I know I personally have never said that they would not be saved out of the time of Jacob's trouble - and, somehow I doubt any of the others have made any statements as you suggest.

Pro-tip:

The time of Jacob's trouble is Armageddon.

There is no gap in the 70 weeks of Daniel - no part of which has anything [directly] to do with the 'fullness of the Gentiles'.

What makes you connect me with these other brothers and sister in Christ in above post re this Thread ??? Please explain.
He just likes to shoot blindly and wildly at as many targets as possible... :rolleyes:

'target' = "anyone who has dared to stand up to his self-imposed superiority complex"
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,793
4,297
113
mywebsite.us
What makes you connect me with these other brothers and sister in Christ in above post re this Thread ??? Please explain.
One of the things that I try to always do is to keep the context and "tone" of whatever is happening in one thread separate from other threads. This means that if I happen to be "having an argument" with someone in one thread - I do not let it carry over into another thread - I will relate to the same person differently in a different thread strictly based on the context and "tone" of each thread.

By doing this, I feel that I am giving the best possible benefit-of-the-doubt to every other member in each context of each thread. For example, if I have some disagreement with someone in one thread - I am not going to go "blast" them in another thread with a different topic in a different context.

By keeping such things focused on a person's behavior and not "trashing" the person themselves - it allows you to show them that you "respect" them in one context but not in another. I may "tell it like it is to their face" in one thread while at the same time give them thumbs-up reactions in another thread. By doing so, I am not being a hypocrite - on the contrary, I am showing that I do not find displeasure in the person themselves - only in [some of] their behavior.

In one thread I may be saying:

"I do not have anything personal against you, but..."

While in another thread I may be saying:

"I really appreciate what you are doing here in this thread..."

Same person - different threads. And, in both cases - in the context and "tone" of the thread - I sincerely mean what I am saying to them.

If I tell someone they have an attitude problem - it is an admonishment - I do not hate them. I do not hate anyone.

When it comes to discussions in threads - I try to focus on what folks are saying and not on them as a person.

Even if I do not think much of something they said - the person is "regarded" - whoever they may be. We are all the same in God's eyes.

Even if/while in disagreement with another member - I try to show real honest innocent wholesome love and affection [in Christ] - and compassion - and concern - for them as the person that they are - [never loosing sight that they are] a brother/sister in Christ. (If not a brother/sister in Christ, hopefully someone I can in some way help to lead them to the Lord.)

You just keep on posting those relevant scriptures to remind us all of who we ought to be at every moment in our communication with our brothers and sisters in Christ... (y)

:coffee: