Understanding the Incarnation

dougcho · Friday at 10:39 AM

Let’s investigate and see if we can possibly get a solid understanding
of the Incarnation (birth) of Jesus Christ.

You will see below … In the beginning, the Members of the Holy Trinity
were God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit.

Many churches teach that the Son of God (Jesus Christ) came down from heaven
to be the Messiah, the Savior. But, this is just NOT true because Jesus was
created (or formed) in Mary’s womb (on earth) … by God the Holy Spirit.

Christ (English) = Cristos (Greek) = Messiah (Hebrew)

How did the Holy Spirit perform this miraculous “Immaculate Conception”?
Possibility #1: the Holy Spirit provided the male sperm necessary
Possibility #2: the Holy Spirit “created” the fetus in Mary’s womb

God the Holy Spirit “created” Jesus

The archangel Gabriel said to the virgin Mary:
“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son,
and shall call His name Jesus … The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also,
that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:31-35)
Jesus was called “the Son of God” because His “Father” was God the Holy Spirit!
ed Isaiah as saying: Jesus would be “God with us” …

And Gabriel said to Joseph:
“… that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus
… So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was
spoken by the Lord through the prophet (Isaiah), saying:
‘Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall
call His name Immanuel’, which is translated, ‘God with us’.” (Matthew 1:20-23)

Did Jesus inherit man’s sin nature?
Years ago, a British lady doctor told me (via email)
that every human inherits the DNA of BOTH parents.
So, unless the Holy Spirit over-rode this (which is a possibility),
the baby Jesus in Mary’s womb inherited her DNA.

Does this mean that Jesus was “fully man”?

“Therefore, it was necessary for Him to be made in every respect like us,
His brothers and sisters, so that He could be our merciful and faithful
High Priest before God.” (Hebrews 2:17)

So, Jesus was “fully man” … But, how then could He be “fully God”?

God the Word’s role in the “creation” of Jesus

“… the Word was God … And the Word became human (Jesus Christ)
and made His home among us.” (John 1:1, 1:14)

So, Jesus was “fully God” … But, wouldn’t this over-ride His sin nature?

Your comments on all of this would be most interesting!

And just thought I’d ask:
When did God the Word become a human being (Jesus Christ)
… while Jesus was in the womb, or after He was born?

Magenta · Friday at 11:15 PM

dougcho said:

John 3:13

John 3:17

John 6:33

John 6:38

John 8:58

Magenta · Friday at 11:20 PM

John 1:1 + 14a In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

SaysWhat · Friday at 11:34 PM

dougcho said:

Let’s investigate and see if we can possibly get a solid understanding
of the Incarnation (birth) of Jesus Christ.

You will see below … In the beginning, the Members of the Holy Trinity
were God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit.

Many churches teach that the Son of God (Jesus Christ) came down from heaven
to be the Messiah, the Savior. But, this is just NOT true because Jesus was
created (or formed) in Mary’s womb (on earth) … by God the Holy Spirit.

Christ (English) = Cristos (Greek) = Messiah (Hebrew)

How did the Holy Spirit perform this miraculous “Immaculate Conception”?
Possibility #1: the Holy Spirit provided the male sperm necessary
Possibility #2: the Holy Spirit “created” the fetus in Mary’s womb

God the Holy Spirit “created” Jesus

The archangel Gabriel said to the virgin Mary:
“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son,
and shall call His name Jesus … The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also,
that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:31-35)
Jesus was called “the Son of God” because His “Father” was God the Holy Spirit!
ed Isaiah as saying: Jesus would be “God with us” …

And Gabriel said to Joseph:
“… that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus
… So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was
spoken by the Lord through the prophet (Isaiah), saying:
‘Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall
call His name Immanuel’, which is translated, ‘God with us’.” (Matthew 1:20-23)

Did Jesus inherit man’s sin nature?
Years ago, a British lady doctor told me (via email)
that every human inherits the DNA of BOTH parents.
So, unless the Holy Spirit over-rode this (which is a possibility),
the baby Jesus in Mary’s womb inherited her DNA.

Does this mean that Jesus was “fully man”?

“Therefore, it was necessary for Him to be made in every respect like us,
His brothers and sisters, so that He could be our merciful and faithful
High Priest before God.” (Hebrews 2:17)

So, Jesus was “fully man” … But, how then could He be “fully God”?

God the Word’s role in the “creation” of Jesus

“… the Word was God … And the Word became human (Jesus Christ)
and made His home among us.” (John 1:1, 1:14)

So, Jesus was “fully God” … But, wouldn’t this over-ride His sin nature?

Your comments on all of this would be most interesting!

And just thought I’d ask:
When did God the Word become a human being (Jesus Christ)
… while Jesus was in the womb, or after He was born?

Did God need sperm to create the first Adam? Why would the second Adam require it. DNA is in the lining of the uterus don't even need an egg, if He so chooses. Joseph and Mary were of the same blood line.

Dino246 · Friday at 12:36 AM

dougcho said:

Let’s investigate and see if we can possibly get a solid understanding
of the Incarnation (birth) of Jesus Christ.

You will see below … In the beginning, the Members of the Holy Trinity
were God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit.

Many churches teach that the Son of God (Jesus Christ) came down from heaven
to be the Messiah, the Savior. But, this is just NOT true because Jesus was
created (or formed) in Mary’s womb (on earth) … by God the Holy Spirit.

Christ (English) = Cristos (Greek) = Messiah (Hebrew)

How did the Holy Spirit perform this miraculous “Immaculate Conception”?
Possibility #1: the Holy Spirit provided the male sperm necessary
Possibility #2: the Holy Spirit “created” the fetus in Mary’s womb

God the Holy Spirit “created” Jesus

The archangel Gabriel said to the virgin Mary:
“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son,
and shall call His name Jesus … The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also,
that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:31-35)
Jesus was called “the Son of God” because His “Father” was God the Holy Spirit!
ed Isaiah as saying: Jesus would be “God with us” …

And Gabriel said to Joseph:
“… that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus
… So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was
spoken by the Lord through the prophet (Isaiah), saying:
‘Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall
call His name Immanuel’, which is translated, ‘God with us’.” (Matthew 1:20-23)

Did Jesus inherit man’s sin nature?
Years ago, a British lady doctor told me (via email)
that every human inherits the DNA of BOTH parents.
So, unless the Holy Spirit over-rode this (which is a possibility),
the baby Jesus in Mary’s womb inherited her DNA.

Does this mean that Jesus was “fully man”?

“Therefore, it was necessary for Him to be made in every respect like us,
His brothers and sisters, so that He could be our merciful and faithful
High Priest before God.” (Hebrews 2:17)

So, Jesus was “fully man” … But, how then could He be “fully God”?

God the Word’s role in the “creation” of Jesus

“… the Word was God … And the Word became human (Jesus Christ)
and made His home among us.” (John 1:1, 1:14)

So, Jesus was “fully God” … But, wouldn’t this over-ride His sin nature?

Your comments on all of this would be most interesting!

And just thought I’d ask:
When did God the Word become a human being (Jesus Christ)
… while Jesus was in the womb, or after He was born?

With respect, John 1:3 refutes your assertion. If you trace John’s train of thought, you will see that Jesus Christ is the Word Who created all things, and nothing that has been made was made without Him.

Magenta · Friday at 12:51 AM

Dino246 said:

Nehemiah 9:6 plus John 1:3

p_rehbein · Saturday at 10:51 AM

dougcho said:

False teaching at its worst.

John, Chapter 1:

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jesus, God the Son, is the "LIVING WORD." Jesus was not created, Jesus is, was and always will be with no beginning or end. Jesus is FULLY GOD! God the Son.

Webers.Home · Saturday at 11:51 AM

.
● 1John 4:2-3 . .This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit
that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but
every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the
spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is
already in the world.

Christ not only came in the flesh, but he came in the likeness of sinful flesh
(Rom 8:3) which tells me right off that Jesus wasn't a special creation,
rather, he is one of Adam's paternal descendants; and that is so very easy
to prove.

● Luke 1:32 . .The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David

No man can be considered for David's place except they first and foremost
be Judah's paternal offspring.

● Gen 49:10 . The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff
from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs.

The man considered must also be David's paternal offspring.

● Ps 132:11 . .The Lord has sworn in truth unto David; and He will not turn
from it: "Of the fruit of your body will I set upon your throne"

The New Testament verifies that Jesus satisfies the paternal requirement.

● Acts 2:29-30 . . Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the
patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us
unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn
with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he
would raise up Christ to sit on his throne.

● Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh

There's really no need to trace David's paternal descent from Adam because
that element of Jesus' origin is seldom contested.

● Gen 3:20 . . Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the
mother of all the living.

● Acts 17:26 . . From one man he made every nation of men, that they
should inhabit the whole earth

Now the thing is; not every card-carrying Christian is agreeable with Jesus'
human origin. Whether they're all victims of the spirit of antichrist; I don't
know. I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt and suggest maybe they
just haven't been sufficiently catechized.
_

GWH · Saturday at 12:56 PM

dougcho said:

Let’s investigate and see if we can possibly get a solid understanding
of the Incarnation (birth) of Jesus Christ.

You will see below … In the beginning, the Members of the Holy Trinity
were God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit.

Many churches teach that the Son of God (Jesus Christ) came down from heaven
to be the Messiah, the Savior. But, this is just NOT true because Jesus was
created (or formed) in Mary’s womb (on earth) … by God the Holy Spirit.

Christ (English) = Cristos (Greek) = Messiah (Hebrew)

How did the Holy Spirit perform this miraculous “Immaculate Conception”?
Possibility #1: the Holy Spirit provided the male sperm necessary
Possibility #2: the Holy Spirit “created” the fetus in Mary’s womb

God the Holy Spirit “created” Jesus

The archangel Gabriel said to the virgin Mary:
“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son,
and shall call His name Jesus … The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also,
that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:31-35)
Jesus was called “the Son of God” because His “Father” was God the Holy Spirit!
ed Isaiah as saying: Jesus would be “God with us” …

And Gabriel said to Joseph:
“… that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus
… So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was
spoken by the Lord through the prophet (Isaiah), saying:
‘Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall
call His name Immanuel’, which is translated, ‘God with us’.” (Matthew 1:20-23)

Did Jesus inherit man’s sin nature?
Years ago, a British lady doctor told me (via email)
that every human inherits the DNA of BOTH parents.
So, unless the Holy Spirit over-rode this (which is a possibility),
the baby Jesus in Mary’s womb inherited her DNA.

Does this mean that Jesus was “fully man”?

“Therefore, it was necessary for Him to be made in every respect like us,
His brothers and sisters, so that He could be our merciful and faithful
High Priest before God.” (Hebrews 2:17)

So, Jesus was “fully man” … But, how then could He be “fully God”?

God the Word’s role in the “creation” of Jesus

“… the Word was God … And the Word became human (Jesus Christ)
and made His home among us.” (John 1:1, 1:14)

So, Jesus was “fully God” … But, wouldn’t this over-ride His sin nature?

Your comments on all of this would be most interesting!

And just thought I’d ask:
When did God the Word become a human being (Jesus Christ)
… while Jesus was in the womb, or after He was born?

I agree that viewing the pre-incarnate Jesus as the Word works better than any other concept I can envision.

Word/Truth is easily viewed as the mind of Christ, which is associated with the young Jesus in the temple but I can't conceive of Him as a Spirit-filled baby.

dougcho · Saturday at 3:04 PM

Dino246 said:

OK, I see now ... Jesus Christ, the Word, created Himself.

Magenta · Saturday at 3:06 PM

dougcho said:

Your logic is faulty. Also, just so you know, denying the Deity of Jesus Christ is the number one heresy not tolerated on CC.

dougcho · Saturday at 3:12 PM

p_rehbein said:

Scripture makes it clear that both the Holy Spirit and the Word
played their part in the "creation" or "forming" of the Baby Jesus!
You are failing to understand, and/or refusing to believe,
several key verses in Matthew, Luke, and John.

dougcho · Saturday at 3:13 PM

Magenta said:

Where did I ever deny the Deity of Jesus?

Magenta · Saturday at 3:16 PM

dougcho said:

You seem to think I have accused you of that but I didn't ... I'm just letting you know, since you are relegating the beginning of Jesus to his physical incarnation, that it sure sounds like you are. Is Jesus eternal in your view, or is He not??? Also your OP very plainly contradicted multiple Scriptures that say explicitly that Jesus came down from heaven.

daisyseesthesun · Saturday at 3:30 PM

dougcho said:

Jesus christ is co eternal with the father he always was.

Dino246 · Saturday at 3:31 PM

dougcho said:

Um, no, you don't see... yet.

John 1:1-3 (NIV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Nothing that was made was made without Him. He was not made, so He did not create Himself; that would be silly. As the old hymn says, Jesus is "begotten, not created".

wattie · Saturday at 8:08 PM

Yeah.. Jesus was pre incarnate before being manifest in the flesh at the birth.

All things were created through Him and in Him all things consist.

He is not a created being. He is the Creator of beings.

homwardbound · Sunday at 9:11 AM

dougcho said:

No matter how anyone deciphers the birth matters not to me at least
He came to do what is now done once for us all to believe and ask God his Father for new life

Authorized (King James) Version
Hebrews 7:11-12
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The perfect Law of Love to us all, best describe to me in

Authorized (King James) Version
1 Cor 14:4-7
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

God is for us and gives us Son as perfect to us to remain in hope as in Luke 18:9-14 tells me at least thanks

Webers.Home · Sunday at 10:39 AM

wattie said:

Post No.8 shows how very easy it is to prove Jesus is one of Adam's paternal
descendants.

Now as uncomfortable as that thought may be for a fairly large number of
sincere Christians; it means Jesus' human origin was the very same dust of
the Earth that was used to create Adam.

If so; then the Word exists today as a binary being: the one a creator, and
the other a creation, i.e. the Word exists as an eternal being and a temporal
being simultaneously, viz: a spirit being and a material being both at the
same time.

The Word's binary existence is nigh unto impossible for some branches of
Christianity to accept: for example the Jehovah's Witnesses-- a religion that
insists the Word can't possibly exist as two kinds of beings simultaneously,
rather, only one at a time. But until they can see that Jesus is a bona fides
real life theophany, they will always aggressively, and perpetually, oppose
the Trinity.

● Heb 2:16-17 . . For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's
descendants. For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every
way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in
service to God.

In other words; the empathy of Jesus' service as a high priest for the Jews
would've been greatly reduced were his human origin other than theirs.
_

daisyseesthesun · Sunday at 10:48 AM

dougcho said:

Dougcho,

There are three instances before Jesus was born to Mary.

1. DANIEL 3:25 KJV “He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”

In these other instances, he is mentioned as God but many people believe it was Jesus who walked with Adam, and it was also Jesus who wrestled with Jacob.

Understanding the Incarnation

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