I was wondering who believes you can get unsaved.

[Everlasting-Grace]

This is "type 2 works salvation" or salvation by works at the back door. In regard to Hebrews 12:14, those who teach salvation by works prefer the translations which read, "without holiness," no man shall see the Lord. The implication is if you are not sufficiently living a "holy enough" life (which also implies works righteousness) then you won't be saved. The NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. To be sanctified is to be "set apart/made holy." Without justification, there is no sanctification.

Those who are sanctified have been "set apart" or "made holy" in standing before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. These people will see the Lord.

In the very next verse (Hebrews 12:15) we read - See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God.. (NASB) The ESV reads - ..fails to obtain the grace of God. That puts things into perspective here.

My church has a book called how good is good enough.

Another way to word it is how holy is holy enough

Is it our good deeds. or the holiness of Christ imputed to us which saved us?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened. what does this mean. why you over look this?

It means a person has come to a knowledge of the truth. they have understood it. They were enlightened to what it means.

It does not mean they were saved..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

your wrong sir read these scriptures from the beginning of the chapters and understand what its saying.

Actually I agree with Dan.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Works of faith do not contradict justification by faith. When Paul contrasts works and faith he is referring to works of law

we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done period

it does not matter if these are works of faith, works of the law. or just doing what your dad tells you to do.

We are not saved by works.. we are not even saved by Faith

we are saved by Grace, by Gods mercy, through faith (eph 2 with titus 3)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

its not just mere believe, it is faith or as the greek says a confident assurance..

if we have no assurance, we have no faith.

 

[mailmandan]

its not just mere believe, it is faith or as the greek says a confident assurance..

if we have no assurance, we have no faith.

Yes, belief that goes beyond mere mental assent and includes trust, reliance, assurance.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, belief that goes beyond mere mental assent and includes trust, reliance, assurance.

Amen

Many BELIEVE,, but that have no faith.

sadly, what they really have faith in will eventually be revealed.. its almost set in stone. that they will reveal who they are. Although I think some make it awhile and we may never know the truth

 

[GWH]

In reference to Heb 6

EG, If falling away were impossible, GL 5:4 would not bother warning against doing so. And if it does not mean forfeiting salvation, ditto. HB 6:4-6 describes people who have received grace/the HS. The dog returning to vomit/salvation via one's own efforts to obey the law perfectly is indeed an apt analogy.

Rom 11:22 - Both individual and by extension categorical salvation is "in context".

1 Cor 15:2 - The fact they believed in vain means they did not endure until the end of their life. Sealing does not contradict Scripture teaching freedom in Christ. It is true that some might have been pseudo-Christians, and some may be prodigal for a time before returning to the fold.

Col 1: 22-23 - "If you continue" to the end means it is possible NOT to do so.

Heb 10: 39 - Continues what was said in v. 36, "You need to persevere" until the end.

Regarding "I can go on": Feel free; this is fun.

Re "It says he will never leave nor forsake us": It takes two to tango.

Re "God never fails us, so we have no reason to lose faith UNLESS we never really had faith to begin with": No good excuse either, especially if we really had saving faith.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

G, If falling away were impossible, GL 5:4 would not bother warning against doing so

Its not a warning against doing so.

the warning is if it were possible. you could not get saved again.. the thing that is impossible is renewing your salvation if it is lost.

Remember the author is refuting those thinking you are saved by law. The law said you could fall away by sin, then renewed by animal sacrifice.. this is what paul is refuting..

And if it does not mean forfeiting salvation, ditto. HB 6:4-6 describes people who have received grace/the HS.

No it does not. It says they recieve the knowledge, they recieved the word. and they have partook of Gods blessing. anyone who is around a body of believers is blessed by association. It does not mean they are saved.

The dog returning to vomit/salvation via one's own efforts to obey the law perfectly is indeed an apt analogy.

I agree. When we are saved, we are made into new creatures. If we claim we are saved, but are not. we are still a dog.

A dog will return to whatever he was.

Whether what we were is trhe law. Sin, Some other religion or whatever. It is who we are. and we will return. if we do not die first.

Rom 11:22 - Both individual and by extension categorical salvation is "in context".

No sir. the context of romans 11 is the nation of Israel. and did god reject them. Not induvidual salvation,..

1 Cor 15:2 - The fact they believed in vain means they did not endure until the end of their life.

How does one endure to the end?

we are not sinless. So that is not enduring.

We will never meet Gods standard. so that is not enduring.

so what exactly is enduring.

and PS. enduring to the end in context is those livving during the time of the end. and life for those who endure to the end is having their physical life saved and entering the 1000 year reign having physically seen the return of christ.

Spiritual life is not in context

sealing does not contradict Scripture teaching freedom in Christ.

If we are sealed until the day of redemption we are sealed. there is nothing you can do to unseal yourself.

I have freedom in christ. You can;t tell me a person who truly believes, who truly repented, and who have truly experienced Gods love by being born again, will change their mind..Unless they never truly believed to begin with.

eternal life is eternal. i have it. If i can lose it. it is not eternal. it is conditional.

God called it eternal. i will trust him. In fact as John said,l it is my knowledge I have it that keeps me trusting it.. If I am not assured I have it. then I will be easily pulled away.. Because I have no hope. no hope is no faith. no faith is not salvation

It is true that some might have been pseudo-Christians, and some may be prodigal for a time before returning to the fold.

Col 1: 22-23 - "If you continue" to the end means it is possible NOT to do so.

right, and who are those who do not continue? those who have no faith..

Heb 10: 39 - Continues what was said in v. 36, "You need to persevere" until the end.

Regarding "I can go on": Feel free; this is fun.

Re "It says he will never leave nor forsake us": It takes two to tango.

Re "God never fails us, so we have no reason to lose faith UNLESS we never really had faith to begin with": No good excuse either, especially if we really had saving faith.

Salvation is not my part and Gods part.

I can not save myself. God must save me

now either he did. or he did not.

there is no inbetween.

if you think you still have a part to do. I would restudy the gospel. and rethink your position in christ.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
● Heb 6:1-3 . .Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ
and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from
acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the
laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And
God permitting, we will do so.

From this point onward, the author will need God's assistance if he's to have
any success at all getting thru his listeners thick skulls.

● Heb 6:4-6 . . For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and
have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy
Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world
to come; if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an
open shame.

Now the thing to note is that folks unified with Christ have all been made
partakers of the Holy Ghost.

● 2Cor 1:21-22 . . Now he which establishes us with you in Christ, and has
anointed us, is God; who has also sealed us, and given the earnest of the
Spirit in our hearts.

● Eph 1:13-14 . . Christ; in whom you also trusted, after that you heard the
word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that you
believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the
earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of his glory.

● Eph 4:30 . . Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed
unto the day of redemption.

So then the folks described as fallen away are not lost, no, the thing they've
gone and done is made themselves unteachable, i.e. indifferent.

Well; seeing as how nothing is impossible with God, then I think it's safe to
posit that He figures believers with that attitude are not worth His time for
now; and any effort on our part to get them interested in advanced Bible
studies would be like trying to dig up a coral reef bare handed.

Those indifferent believers will make it to Heaven alright because they're sealed,
but I suspect they'll be shuttled off to a Bible camp to bring them up to speed
with those of us who made the climb to higher ground while still down here
instead of waiting till we got up there.
_

 

[GWH]

Its not a warning against doing so.


right, and who are those who do not continue? those who have no faith..


Salvation is not my part and Gods part.

I can not save myself. God must save me

now either he did. or he did not.

there is no inbetween.

if you think you still have a part to do. I would restudy the gospel. and rethink your position in christ.

1. "the warning is if it were possible. you could not get saved again". Why would the warning be needed if repudiating salvation is impossible?

2. "No it [HB 6:4-6] does not refer to believers. It says they recieve the knowledge, they recieved the word. and they have partook of Gods blessing." No, it says they are enlightened, tasted grace and shared in the Holy Spirit, which only believers do.

3. "No sir. the context of romans 11 is the nation of Israel. and did god reject them. Not induvidual salvation". God neither saves nor rejects nations, but only individual souls on the basis of their personal sins. Paul was merely generalizing, because most Jews rejected Christ.

4. "How does one endure to the end?" By continuing as one began.

5. "If we are sealed until the day of redemption we are sealed. there is nothing you can do to unseal yourself." Then a loving God would nullify volition from the beginning and seal everyone.

6. "If i can lose it. it is not eternal. it is conditional." Bingo! God's love is unconditional, but His forgiveness is conditional upon repentance.

7. "If I am not assured I have it. then I will be easily pulled away." No, but our assurance must agree with biblical teaching about the possibility of apostasy--so don't get cocky!

 

[psalms22]

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

the free gift will not be lost, well said sir. the question should be what is it to believe? what changes in us when we do believe? John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day,"

Isaiah 55:11 (ESV)

"So shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it."

if this person lost this would the fathers will- command be done

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

1. "the warning is if it were possible. you could not get saved again". Why would the warning be needed if repudiating salvation is impossible?

Because context of the whole book of Hebrews is going back to law.

The law said you can lose salvation. then get it back again, then lose it. then get it back.. it said specifically. You can fall away.

The authors warning is this, If you fall away (if it were possible) you can not be renewed again, And this thinking you can fall away. puts christ to shame..

2. "No it [HB 6:4-6] does not refer to believers. It says they recieve the knowledge, they recieved the word. and they have partook of Gods blessing." No, it says they are enlightened, tasted grace and shared in the Holy Spirit, which only believers do.

No., Your reading into the text.. Try studying the whole book of hebrews. not just cut some test out. Even the following verse show this. when it says the earth drinks rain etc etc. it says at most it is near to being cursed..

it shows in itself that salvation can not be lost. Much like paul said in his word. about reward. that there will be some who have every reward burned, But he himself will still be saved, even as through fire.

3. "No sir. the context of romans 11 is the nation of Israel. and did god reject them. Not induvidual salvation". God neither saves nor rejects nations, but only individual souls on the basis of their personal sins. Paul was merely generalizing, because most Jews rejected Christ.

My friend, Look at Romans 11. It is about Israel verses gentiles

Israel is blinded in part
Israel is the natural branch
Israel was cut off

You were grafted in,
You are the unnatural branch.
And then he warns the gentiles. Do not be puffed up. Just as they (Israel) were cut off. You can be cut off as well.. (Much of the gentile church even today believes God is done with Israel) and Paul warned them, That not only will Israel repent. but they all will be saved.

He finishes by saying they are enemies at this time concerning the gospel. but to be loved concerning the election.

Sorry my friend. You can mot make induvidual salvation any part of romans 11. it is not there.

4. "How does one endure to the end?" By continuing as one began.

So by continuing to sin and fall short? So by continuing to remain a baby in Christ? By continuing to remain put?

5. "If we are sealed until the day of redemption we are sealed. there is nothing you can do to unseal yourself." Then a loving God would nullify volition from the beginning and seal everyone.

God does not nullify volition. If you truly received God. and you were truly born of him and had his spirit in you. You would never repent back to rejecting the fact you needed saved and reject Gods grace gift.

6. "If i can lose it. it is not eternal. it is conditional." Bingo! God's love is unconditional, but His forgiveness is conditional upon repentance.

Bingo. You only need to repent once.. Once you have repented and turned to him. You do not have to keep repenting. Even saying you do puts you under law not under grace.

Jesus paid it all. why do you not believe him?

7. "If I am not assured I have it. then I will be easily pulled away." No, but our assurance must agree with biblical teaching about the possibility of apostasy--so don't get cocky!

I am not the one cocky myfriend. Your the one who thinks you have made it. and must keep making it

Apostasy happens all the time. Not on people. but in the church,. we are witnessing it today as so many old churches are closing their doors. and others are turning to sin.

John said I can know I have eternal life. and it is this knoweldge that keeps me in faith, Its why I can come to the throne of Grace and visit my abba father.. Only people who are not secure are the people that need to worry. Because they lack real faith.